swollen face rubric

[Shannon Nelson]

Actually, while waiting for me to respond, she started eating handfuls of garlic, and quickly started feeling better (and swelling and hives began to recede-I gather, but will re-check). ) She's not sure that will resolve the whole thing and is still planning to get the Puls--I will let you know when have anything on that to share. But, this does suggest that the reaction was more infectious than allergic. (Allergy to an infective agent?)

Again, I did not in any way take this as a chronic case--as a look at my rubrics and questions will confirm.

Yes, causation was clear; it was from the swimming. Effect began immediately, but then increased over the next few days.

You wrote: " when the cause is apparently nothing to do with ingestion then I personally would not have included those results in an acute consideration." Correct, the cause had nothing to do with ingestion (at least not with ingestion of vinegar or grapefruit water or any food).
So--do you not consider concomitant symptoms to be useful, or you do not consider a sudden craving for vinegar or grapefruit water to be a symptom?

[Shannon Nelson]

Correct again, none of my taking of this case had anything to do with her chronic case. As a glance at my rubrics and questions will verify.

I didn't ask you how I take my acute cases, Joy. I asked what questions *you* would have asked to clarify this case, and I asked how *you* feel I ought to have asked her for changes, since the episode had begun, in her appetite, thirst and food preferences? I asked in the way I was taught to ask, and I asked because I was taught that *if* there are clear changes to these, since the time of the start of the acute episode, then they are to be considered as concomitant symptoms, and possibly useful in selection of the remedy.

Is it your position that even clear changes in thirst, appetite, and food preference are *not* relevant in any acute case, unless the acute condition was apparently caused by the food? If that's what you're saying I'm intrigued, as it's different from what I was taught. If that's not what you are saying, then what the heck *are* you saying?

[Joy Lucas]

Interesting, in as much as Allium sativum has an affinity to allergic reactions and also from drinking bad water but why do you think 'infectious' rather than allergy? Wouldn't there be more sx as the so called infection travelled the vital force? And why then pursue the Pulsatilla if the acute episode is over? What will that do when the acute is gone?

You rank any concomitant sx, if there are any, the same way as you would any other sx. I don't think you wrote in a time line when the sudden craving happened - for the causation to be accurate, i.e. the swimming in river water, then the sudden craving must have happened immediately afterwards for it to have been really useful. If it happened before then I see less of it as a useful sx in the acute but more in the chronic - otherwise what you are saying is that the body was craving vinegar as a precurser to having an acute from swimming in river water - so maybe there was an underlying acute that was excited from the swimming and in that way might be useful but that isn't how you wrote it, great emphasis was given to the swimming.

Belladonna, arsenicum and sulph would still fit the acute sx as you've written them although avoiding swimming in river water might be the best rx.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

[Shannon Nelson]

Does garlic help tame allergic reactions? I suppose it's possible.

Why pursue Puls? Note I said, she is not sure it will take care of the entire situation; itching was continuing as of yesterday, and she is sitll a "work in progress". Of course if she is "all better" she won't be getting or taking any remedy.

Re the cravings: I did indeed write in a time line; it began within the day after the eruptions etc. began. Along with overall loss of appetite, nothing appealed except vinegar water and grapefruit water. No it did not happen before--as I have said I believe three times now. No this was not and is not a chronic case, and none of the symptoms I took were from prior to onset of the episode--as I said several times. Yes it was from the swimming.

Of those, Sulph ranks best (but doesn't it usually), tho not as well as Puls.
Ars and Sulph fit the general, non-characterizing sxs--as do a great many other remedies.
Would you not consider "Itching, cold amel" and "itching, rubbing agg" and "desires bitter" and "desires vinegar" (stipulating the time of occurrence etc.) to be meaningful symptoms? If not, you've got a LOT of remedies to choose from...

/

[Joy Lucas]

To repeat, I would have asked questions as per my previous post - you said there was more to the case so I have no idea how to advise otherwise as I do not know the rest of the case - am trying merely to show a difference in acute case taking and chronic, and with allergies this divide is not as easy as in some other acute episodes because there is such a strong link between acute and chronic.

You did originally ask about the relevance of certain rubrics and it is easy to get sidetracked but in presenting a case might it not have been better to have written that 'a client, recently had sudden changes to her food cravings, i.e. vinegar and grapefruit (sour, my emphasis) and then within a very short space of time (would have to be quick to be classed as part of the acute) had a bad reaction when swimming in river water'.

Even that way round with the emphasis changed it still smacks of a mixture of acute and chronic prescribing.

Relevance of sx in an acute is why we rank sx and some cases are clearly defined by food cravings and others are not.
Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

[Shannon Nelson]

Joy wrote: "might it not have been better to have written that 'a client, recently had sudden changes to her food cravings, i.e. vinegar and grapefruit (sour, my emphasis) and then within a very short space of time (would have to be quick to be classed as part of the acute) had a bad reaction when swimming in river water'."
Argh, Joy, why would I have wanted to write that, when that is not what happened?
What happened is just what I said: She swam; began the reaction; developed the cravings...
Never mind, thanks for trying to help...

[Joy Lucas]

You actually never wrote a timeline - I asked about the point of food before you wrote that the food cravings were 'specific to the period' whatever that means, 2 minutes, 2 hours, 2 days or ??? - all makes a difference.

You also said in your first post that this was a recurring problem and then changed that to a 'one incident'.

As muddy as the swimming water.

So 'argh' indeed.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

[Shannon Nelson]

Re the timeline:
As to minutes, hours, or days, "along with" in this case means it was within the first day or so.

Re recurring vs. one incident: On Aug 11 I wrote: "This was her only episode of urticaria, so my case is based only upon this one episode."

On Aug 10 I wrote: "She swam in the town reservoir. Says she's been swimming there since her teens without any problem, but about six years back (so... that would be after swimming in it without trouble for at least 20 years) she started to get ear, nose, throat issues after swimming in it--but others do not seem to be having problems."

So yes there are both aspects, the severe acute nature of this one, and the preexisting susceptibility, which however had never expressed in this precise way, or with this severity.

It would be less muddy if you would read the posts you are commenting on...

[Joy Lucas]

Yes I do read them very well thank you hence my feeling (and my questions were based on this) that this is a good example of mixing acute with chronic - however severe the acute this time there were clear indications of previous episodes. You had thought of giving her Puls before which suggests a more chronic approach (even if those times had been repeated acutes). You also stated at one time that you thought her susceptibility *odd*, this too muddles my understanding of your approach.

By the way, Pulsatilla has the need for sour food/substance in a chronic manner, comes from subcutaneous ulcer which cannot tolerate fatty/rich food and it burns intensely and the sour serves as a 'like for like' need that doesn't actually >>> 'desires acids that disagrees'. The Puls plant is extremely acrid and this is a theme that runs throughout and in fact all the same plant family have this tendency to acridity. Doesn't have an affinity for hugely swollen face with intense heat - fundamentally very chilly.

I thought this was an interesting case that highlighted the acute approach, sadly you always see my questions as being unworthy and were antagonistic from the start.

Good luck

Joy.
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

[Dr. DHMS]

Back Up! Shannon & Joy we are with you, good discussion is on, enjoying and getting some knowledge also. Please don,t stop it.

Dr.

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Joy Lucas wrote: