FRONTLINE for fleas - was Loss of balance {any ideas}?

[Irene de Villiers]

Hi Liz,

Funny how registered trademarks that are supposedly internationally
reserved (as is Spot-On , are then re-used by the competition. If I
was Frontline I would not want any association with the Spot-on name
due to its seriously worse toxicity!
Maybe they get away with it by calling it "Frontline Spot-On" but it
seems a thin defence.
Now this is incorrect instruction, it should never touch the skin. It
is a known skin irritant, and because of the solvent and
concentration of product it can be expected to be absorbed into the
body and do harm. The original product was for application on the
fur, not the skin.
That's also wrong. Apart from being high fipronil as a percentage,
there is no way it is just fipronil as that is not liquid, it is solid.
Just the fact that only a tenth of it is fipronil per the label,
means they have not disclosed the other 90% of solvent. it might be
that the solvent is the toxicity problem and not the fipronil. I
would not be surprised!
Sometimes law does not force disclosure of ingredients other than the
"active" one/s. And that applies no matter how horrid they may be. If
they are not the flea killer part, they can be "anything", and not be
disclosed.
In your shoes I'd steer clear of that as well, as i am sure you will.

Seems like maybe UK never got the original Frontline product - the
one with 0.29% fipronil to apply to fur only.

UK climate should allow the use of Brewer's yeast - there is not
Florida or Cape Town type climate to provide a flea paradise for
reproduction. Even Florida is not ideal, it gets too hot, but it is
more flea-promoting than most places in USA.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

Hi,
You might have introduced it too fast, or used too much to start with:
It takes a cat at least a month to learn to digest a new protein and
brewer's yeast is high protein food, and very unfamiliar to cat
systems. I would suggest that you add the merest tiny pinch to a week
of food, mixed in, initially.
This will be almost undetectable, and the idea is to keep that level
of the new food till they have got used to it being there. After a
month, use twice as much - 2 pinches per week. After an other month,
add three pinches per week. And so on till you reach an amount that
is effective for fleas. It is concentrated food so you do not need a
lot.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

Dear Tanya,

No offence but there are a lot of charlatans out there wanting your
dollars and claiming to have non-toxic supposedly safe products. They
are anything but safe! It needs proof of safety. As with this onde,
they often hide behind "proprietory" ingredients, b ut if you really
dig deep, you can often find the unsafe componenets;
This one lists a few of its ingredients in its MSDS (Material Safety
Data Sheet), of which I followed up minimally, before becoming
disgusted.
Start with the MSDS. It lists a pH of 10.5. That is about as alkaline
as oven cleaner lye, so no wonder it "cleans" stuff.
Digging deeper you find that the source of the high alkali pH is
sodium hydroxide.
Now cats function at a low pH of 5.5 and it would not take much of
this to mess up their systems, apart from which anything at pH 10.5
is going to cause chemical burns.
Worse, a major ingredient is "Tall oil" which is a by-product of
Kraft paper making, involving turpentine from pine trees. Pine oil is
VERY toxic to cats, and the turpenes in this product are the same
thing, except they have extra hydrocarbons (when did THEY become
safe) and sulphur compounds (know why paper plants stink?) in the
junk that clogs the works in paper making and which is sold off as
Tall oil to make the paper making more efficient.
It gets worse from there. One of the components is abietic acid,
which is possibly their "enzyme" of action against insects (or one of
them). It is a chemical that breaks down fibrin and it also converts
plasminogen to fibrinolysin.
A government summary of its nastiness is here in the national
chemical library;
http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary ... ?cid=10569

NOTE FOR EXAMPLE:
* Inhibitors of the Interaction of Thyroid Hormone Receptor and
Steroid Receptor Coregulator 2
* NCI human tumor cell line growth inhibition assay.

I quit wasting time on this toxic stuff after that. I have hardly
scratched the surface of what's in there. Multiple Organic compounds
are also there, ......

I've been taken in before by these "clean and green" claims on
chemicals with secret ingredient lists.
They are invariably toxic to everyone but especially toxic to cats.

Even ordinary pine cleaners are toxic to cats - this is SO much worse!
Mess with the thyroid?
Mess with tumor prevention immune system actions?
Play around with clotting factors?
Add a known toxic oil to cats?
A pH in the sky where only oven cleaners usually go?

I do not care that the cat does not drop dead the *first* time you
use the product - it needs to be TESTED safe long-term on cats with
KNOWN chemicals involved, before I will go near it.

No thanks - that is NOT nontoxic.
No harm?
Try to Prove that!

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Tanya Marquette]

irene,
i don't know what you were looking up.
here is the product ingredients from the data sheet
Product Description: Corn Oil, Castor Oil, Rosemary, Peppermint and Thyme.
the pH is listed as normal which i interpret to be 7.
and this is not something i spray on cats. it dries very quickly and seems to have
residual fumes or odors.
so while you are correct that there are many charlatans out there, i dont know
where you got your data below--the link you provided goes to pubchem which
talks about chemicals that have no identification with the product i mentioned.
tanya

[Tanya Marquette]

thanks
tanya

[Irene de Villiers]

These things are always well hidden.
I started with "Safe Solutions" patent application - the excuse to
hide the ingredients as a "proprietory" product:

http://www.safesolutionsinc.com/Tvedten ... Patent.pdf

I then looked for the MSDS:
http://www.cleanersolutions.org/downloa ... /EZ%20Safe%
20Solutions%20Cleaner%20MSDS.pdf

Under item 2 see "Contents include".......

and so on,,,,,

I then looked up the Tall-oil fatty acids and got to the acid I
mentioned via a few more "drillings down".
What data sheet did you look at?
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Tanya Marquette]

this is the data sheet i used
http://www.safesolutionsinc.com/Nontoxi ... t_MSDS.htm

[Irene de Villiers]

So it seems the "safe" Solutions makes several products. All of them
anything but "Safe"
The one you are referencing is also toxic.
Castor oil - just one of the listed ingredients - is extremely toxic
to cats,(and dogs), it's the bean from which ricin is extracted!
Peppermint oil can cause liver failure in cats.
[Essential oils are all toxic to cats, they lack the metabolism to
break them down.]

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Tanya Marquette]

however, the product is used in a very dilute solution. i usually use about
1-3 tsp in a quart of water (depending on what is being cleaned). it is never
put on the cats and has no odorific fumes. since it is sprayed in a fine mist,
it dries almost instantly. i dont see the cats getting any of the product if it
is used correctly.
i must say that it was interesting to read the patent document that you sent.
first time i ever read one of those applications. what i got from it was that
it was a general description of a product that could be made in a number of
ways. don't know if that is a requirement of the patent office to provide such
generic type information or if there is some other reason it was written up that
way. i do know from the owner that it is NOT listed as a pesticide. it seems
that a number of companies do this to avoid the lengthy and expensive EPA
process for pesticide applications. there are 2 other products that i know of
that are used for mold and allergen abatement, also enzyme based, that
avoid the epa process. one of them will not talk about mold abatement in
their literature for this reason, but talks about cleaning surfaces.
tanya

[Liz Brynin]

Thanks - it sounds really good. I'll look it up.
Liz
________________________________
________________________________