FRONTLINE for fleas - was Loss of balance {any ideas}?

[Irene de Villiers]

Frontline comes in at least three different forms, probably four.
Originally (mid-60s) the only active ingredient was fipronil, and it
is the one that kills fleas, and it is there is extremely small
concentration, and very low toxicity - hard to find a toxic response
anywhere.

Nowadays - most of the Frontline products contain an ingredient
called Methoprene (the "plus" in most Frontline products, thus called
Frotline Plus if you look at the small print) AND/OR they are
concentrated into a shoulder application called Frontline TOPSPOT.
Both the methoprene new ingredient and the stupid idea of putting a
concentrate on the skin - make these products VERY much more toxic
than the original. (The original is the only one I use or suggest if
anyone needs a chemical approach. It goes dilute on the fur - NONE on
the skin - and if you prevent grooming 5 mins the cats will tend to
leave it alone anyway.)

So I wonder which you used that caused a problem?
And I wonder which was used to make a remedy?

MOST vets only sell Frontline-Plus, and Frontline Topspot, and not
the much safer plain Frontline spray.
Sounds awful.
Methoprene is the most likely culprit, (rather than the actualo flea
killer fiproni)l:
Methoprene is a "terpinoid" chemical, and that is awful stuff but
worse is the concentration of it in the Frontline new products, wiith
"plus" added to the name. Methoprene also causes enlarged liver.

Pfizer is notorious for knowingly making previously innocuous
products into life threatening ones with no warning to consumers or
vets. They do it by changing the ingredients and leaving the name the
same, so as to get sales based on past record. They also did it for
example with Kaopectate which was innocuous till a few yrs ago and it
now will cause death quickly instead of being helpful, due to a
change in ingredients. (Frontline is the same idea...)

It's not an organophosphate. There are seven of them, and they are:
chlorpyrifos, dichlorvos, phosmet, naled, tetrachlorvinphos, diazinon
and malathion
As you can see, they are not in Fipronil (and they would kill a cat
if used, as they lack ablity to break down these chemicals at all).

Sounds like your cat had a typical methoprene toxic response.
Fipronil overdose is hard to get (takes several kilograms of it,
ingested) and causes jitteriness for a short while.
Was it potentized from Frontline-plus or the old style Frontline
without the methoprene?
No,
It has fipronil to kill fleas, not an organophosphate. And it
contains (unnecessary) methoprene, also not an OP, but toxic another
way.
The methoprene causes toxicty responses though Pfizer has done a good
job of hiding that toxicity on tyeh internet i see - not good enough
- it is documented in the NAtioanl Library of medicine in a 2005 dtuedy.
It is a cytotoxin - toxic to all the cells. I'll quote:

".....cytotoxic action of methoprene. Cell growth was affected and a
decrease of the number of viable cells was observed as a result of
the addition of methoprene to the growth medium, an effect reverted
by the presence of Ca(2+). Methoprene also inhibited the redox flow
of B. stearothermophilus protoplasts before the cytochrome oxidase
segment, an effect further studied by individually assessing the
enzymatic activities of the respiratory complexes. This study
suggests that methoprene membrane interaction and perturbation of
cell bioenergetics may underlie the mechanism of toxicity of this
compound in non-target organisms."

[The ref is:
Toxicol In Vitro. 2005 Oct;19(7):951-6. Epub 2005 Aug 2.
Toxicity of methoprene as assessed by the use of a model microorganism.
Monteiro JP, Jurado AS, Moreno AJ, Madeira VM.]

Other research shows liver damage (enlarged liver) from methoprene,
and also that endocrine function is disturbed.

This would explain your cat's response I believe, as the cell
toxicity affects respiration and would cause your cat to be lying
still and inactive. It was weird finding so many claims of
nontoxicity for this chemical all over the internet as you could
easily find plenty of them in the nineties before Pfizer added it to
Frontline. I remember it because I did an in depth article on flea
products for cats in my magazine at the time and reported Methoprene
as toxicity 4 on a scale of 1 to five and fipronil as a 1. Methoprene
as a terpene also will go through the skin.
The percentage present in Topspot is horridly high too, somewhere
like 12%.

The other Frontline ingredient, fipronil, would have to be ingested
in solid form in quantity to induce any symptoms in a cat/person.
However it is always listed in data sheets with warnings as one can
buy fipronil in solid powder form, it is used in agriculture that way
- not great, it sticks around too long. In insects it disrupts the
GABA receptor of nerves (blocks the GABA receptor site).

Fipronil toxicity tests in dogs: When dogs were fed large amounts of
dry fipronil (20mg/Kg wt) in food in a toxicity study, they got
hyperactive symptoms and refused food containing it, and had
excessive reflex responses.

The Frontline spray for cats has a very small percentage of fipronil
in solution, only 0.29%.
That very low concentration is very relevant - in deciding where and
what toxicity is present.
It is a phenylpyrozole chemical. Anything with a phenyl group is not
good for cats, so it is toxic, and here one relies on the low
percentage hence very low solid amount per application - and
avoidance of ingestion of that application in any significant way
when using it.

Hence my conviction that the toxicity here is from methoprene, not
fipronil.
I still consider Frontline Spray (no "Plus" methoprene in it) the
least toxic commercial flea product for cats.

When possible (and in some climates this is not enough) use berwer's
yeast added to food instead.
I think you were right to act fast.
Sometimes it helps to give a high dose of antioxidants as well:
Vit C (as ascorbic acid), Vit E and alpha lipoic acid.

So far I have not yet seen any case of toxicity from the original
Frontline spray (made by Meriel before Pfizer got involved)
containing only a small percentage of fipronil - which can still be
found, albeit with difficulty. (It also needs to be used correctly -
and those original nineties instructions are also missing now that
Pfizer is involved. One does not apply it to skin - only to fur
surface, till it is just damp, and it needs to be done in fresh air,
facing the wind/breeze/fan so as not to breathe the evaporating
carrier.)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Liz Brynin]

Thanks for this reply, Irene, but I think the British products must be different from the US products.
I used Frontline Spot-On - this only contains fipronil, and is applied to the skin on the back of the neck, high up where they can't groom themselves. (Frontline Combo is a newish product with methoprene - I have never used this.)
The original Frontline is therefore the one I used (for some reason, I thought it was an organo-phosphate as someone told me this - maybe it contained something different several years back?) and is extremely toxic. Apart from my cat's reaction, my neighbour's cat keeled over and starting fitting after they applied it - they hurriedly called me in to see what was the matter with him. As they had applied Frontline 10 minutes previously, I suspected that and suggested they go to their vet. Didn't dare give any Frontline in potency as the law forbids treatment of animals by non-qualified people in Britain - I only use remedies on my own cats or if friends ask for help. Their vet, predictably, pooh-poohed the idea of the Frontline being responsible. Two or three months later, they applied more... the cat died within 24 hours. I never cease to be amazed at how blind people can be when it's too much effort to take an alternative path!
Liz
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[Shannon Nelson]

Wow, amazing stuff...

Liz, the only thing that my own cats and dogs have ever needed for flea
control, over several decades, has been free-choice brewers (or
nutritional) yeast sprinkled on their food. (I sort of sprinkle-pile
it, rather than sprinkling uniformly, so they can eat only as much as
they want. I've never had one that didn't eat it eagerly.) So long as
they don't have to go without for more than a day or so, flea
protection has always been complete.

Shannon

[Irene de Villiers]

FRONTLINE DOES NOT HAVE SPOT-ON..... IT HAS TOPSPOT.
SPOT-ON IS a different product and is VERY VERY TOXIC AND WILL KILL!
It contains 48% pyrethroid active ingredients (etofenprox,
tetramethrin, piperonyl butoxide, acetone) and if you put it on your
dog, and your cat goes near the dog, it can kill the cat.
there is also one with etophenprox and methoprene called Spot-On for
cats, and is also lethal IMO.;Spot-On is a registered trademark of
Wellmark International.
People often confuse these two separate shoulder-application products.
In any case even FRONTLINE TOPSPOT is at far too high a
concentration and it is applied to skin. It is NOT like the original
"spray".
The spray is about 0.29% fipronil and topspot is about 12% fipronil.
It matters, as it will go through the skin in the concentration in
the topspot applicator.
No, the original is 0.29% and only comes as a spray, not a spot
application of concentrate. (By the way cats can groom there just
fine - they lick a paw first or get their pal to do it. Or worse they
scratch it when it itches, and thus it gets internal.)
No it has always been fipronil.
The original study in France used over 3000 cats and one kitten only
had a problem: It got cold from the evaporating spray - hypothermia -
and had to be warmed up. The stuff does evaporate very fast, and
evaporation does cause cooling.
The study in South Africa included a few hundred newborn kittens -
all with no ill effects.
Fipronil is indeed a nerve irritator so a seizure makes some sense as
a potential response. But it is due to 12% or something like that -
concentration on skin - as opposed to 0.29% on fur. The spot
concentrate is new and is NOT safe. People tend to rub it on,
compromising the skin too, making entry easy. Cats tend to scratch it
is as the concentrate will itch. SCratchning it dorectly into the
blood stream. All bad.

So I am not sure if your neighbour used Spot-On, which would kill for
sure...........
People confuse them...
Dumb law. We have just as dumb ones here.
Nobody cares about what's best for the animal.
Horrid! Now if this was Frontlikne topspot and not Spot-On - it has
to be an allergic reaction, as opposed to a toxic one if that was
Frontline.
If it was spot-On I am sorry but that does kill this way.

With Frontline topspot, allergy is recorded - so that is rare but
has happened - from the topspot. It's another reason I do not like it
and stick to the original Frontline SPRAY if something chemical is
needed. (I do not spray it, just use hands to apply it to fur.)
version, because it can get through the skin in high concentration.
There are not always lower risk alternatives people know about.
Having the cat die from fleabite anemia is not a risk to take either,
and in some climates it is all too common.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

It depends where one lives.
Some climates require much more heavy-duty flea vigilance and action:-(

......Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Liz Brynin]

I must try this - don't know how my cats would respond. They only eat raw meat and a very few biscuits as a treat.
But worth a try. Thanks!
Liz

[Liz Brynin]

Hi Irene
Strange. Like I said, it must be different in the UK. The product here is called 'Frontline - Spot-on', and you have a little plastic ampoule which you break open and squeeze onto the skin at the back of the neck after having parted the fur. When you look up the ingredients, it says 10% fipronil - nothing else. This has been around since the 90s.
The latest product is 'Frontline Combo', but I have never tried that.
Liz
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[Tanya Marquette]

i tried brewer's yeast but the cats refused to eat it. frustrating since it seemed like a
simple, cheap and safe way to build their resistance to fleas.
last year i used an enzyme product in the house which worked very well. it was cost
effective, envirnomentall and human safe. i did not spray outdoors since my one
outdoor cat wanders quite a distance through wooded areas.
tanya

[Liz Brynin]

What was the enzyme product, Tanya?
Liz
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[Tanya Marquette]

it is called Safe Solutions. i order it from a man in Minnesota? you can go online
and look up Safe Solutions. the man worked in pest abatement for years but seems
to have become very green, and very pro-animal. he farms and i had a good feeling
talking with him. i have used this for fleas and bed bugs. depending on the strength
of your dilution you can use it for almost anything. it is great for cleaning small mold
build up in areas like baths and removes many stains. how can you go wrong with
anything that can do so much and cause no harm.
btw, he has a book online with so much good information on dealing with pests. it
is a free download in case you want more information;. there is a very good chapter
on fleas
tanya
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