provings

[Shannon Nelson]

Joy, it might be worth putting the word out to a few schools, too?
(And with so many on internet, you could include schools anywhere,
oboy! Let me/us know if you want me to find contact info for schools
I/we know of?
Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

Many thanks Shannon. I am about to contact a couple of schools and
would appreciate some contact info if you, or anyone, could find the
time. Best wishes as always, Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Joy,
Okay, here's what comes to my mind:
Pacific Academy of Homeopathy, San Francisco, CA (US), email -
health@homeopathy-academy.org, and phone 415-695-2710 (plus whatever it
takes to get into the US lines).

Northwest School of Homeopathy, Minneapolis, MN (US), - Jan Forsberg,
School Administrator 612-794-6445, or info@homeopathicschool.org
Good luck!
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joy Lucas]

people should read stanzas 121 - 142 for proving or testing of remedy understanding and also, especially stanza 21 Hahnemann states that nothing can be observed from experiments with medicines unless knowing how the alteration in the state of health is shown - this is done on healthy people, i.e. a proving/ a testing whatever word you want to use, lets add a few more word choices if you wish, doesn't change anything.

However well or badly a proving or test of a remedy/substance is managed and supervised the whole point is that we then have a sx picture to work with if the data can be collected and collated and distributed amongst the community.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi List,

I do not really know what "proving" - outside the way it has been used
for homeopathy, means.

I also do not know why the roiginal German term was not translated.

The term Hahnemann used was "prüfen" - which means "to test"

A proving in German is "Arneimittelprüfung", i. e. "test of remedies".

So actually it is not all that specific. Testing a remed can be done
various ways.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Irene de Villiers]

Hi Luise,

I am so often glad of your specific ability in German shared here.

I also just read Tanya's nice email which so eloquently describes the
need to stick to the principles (meaning we also must understand
them) and not be too pedantic about how individual people interpret
and use them, as we will vary (being human) in that regard and the
resultant dissention is not useful.

The original term "prüfen" is just one example of how too much
emphasis on a particular interpretation can lead to more contention
that is needed to follow the *principle* that was being espoused.
This makes so much more sense to understand as the principle needed.
What we need to exclude is something that has not been tested in any
way at all, such a a mixture of several potentized remedies tossed
together and called homeopathic by a vendor, untested.
Discussion which confuses that kind of mixture with the well tested
use of a single remedy in prophylaxis or acute usage, might then be
avoided.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Luise Kunkle]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Joy Lucas wrote:
He did say so - but the symptoms in his MM of CD are not from
*healthy* people but from his patients. On e would assume that the
were not healthy.

Also he gave Sulphur/Hepar sulph. to start with to all his patients
who came for chronic disease.

Soe he did not himself feel all that tightly bound by whatever he had
said before.

But of course even the ancient Romans had a poverb already: "What is
proper for Jupiter is not proper for the cow":-)

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Joy Lucas]

Irene, where does Hahnemann say that testing a remedy in various ways is good practice and what are all these various ways according to Hahnemann's principles?

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Irene de Villiers]

I don't think he says that in so many words anywhere I know of:-)

I'm more interested in the principles than the words.
In principle the remedy needs testing.
In principle we need to follow the Law of Similars
In principle, a remedy in a healthy individual makes them more robust
and healthy
(....actually he does say that last one in as many words)

I'm aware some people want the "letter of the law" rather than the
"intention behind the law"
Perhaps you and I each adhere more to one of those categories:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Chris_Gillen]

Prüfen means 'to test'.

Firstly, 'Arneimittelprüfung' [remedy test] is a procedure in which we
locate reliable sources of toxicological poisonings and empirical data of a
specific drug.

Secondly, we apply pure observation to the properties of the drug which can
be induced safely on a healthy examiner.

[In other instances, proving symptoms can also be observed to have been
induced by the remedy on a patient during treatment. There are rules to
follow in discerning between "new" morbid symptoms of the patient that arise
during treatment and true proving symptoms elicited by the remedy (i.e.
never seen before in a proving or previously recorded in the Materia
Medica). Since this is a bit more complicated, Hahnemann suggested it is
best left to "masters of observation" [Aphorism 142]. Obviously you can't
simplistically write down any old symptom after the fact as having been
produced or cured by a remedy. Otherwise you'd end up with the same paltry
standard of unreliable materia medica that had been used in allopathic
quarters.]

Thirdly, the medicinal properties of a drug are then tested in the clinic
and are clinically verified ONLY after similar symptoms disappear in
treatment to those that were first produced in the drug proving.

That is the full complement of the word 'Prüfen -to test' in homoeopathy.

No shortcuts, otherwise it's falsehood, deception and sophistry.

Chris