obsession with disease

[Gail]

I haven't tried this but was reading this afternoon and it seems
relevant - from Chancellor's 'Bach Flower Remedies'
"Dr Bach also made an observation about the empirical use of HOLLY
and WILD OAT when a case does not respond well to the Remedies
prescribed: 'If ever a case suggests that it needs many remedies, or
if ever a case does not respond to treatment, give either HOLLY or
WILD OAT, and it will then be obvious which other Remedies may be
required. In all cases where the patient is of the active, intense
typed, give HOLLY. In patients who are of the weak, despondent type,
give WILD OAT."

One of these may be relevant or other Flower Remedies may be useful
in that an obssessive sort of patient often benefits by taking a
remedy on a regular basis - Sac Lac is one option, flower remedies
are another. For example CHESTNUT BUD could help for someone who is
unable to learn from their past experiences - and this guy certainly
sounds like his feet need some grounding so he can make some
progress instead of being stuck in a cycle.

Gail A.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "hahnemannian2002"
wrote:
even
to
that
case
and
his
stage,
and
settle
some
magnetized
vom
like
because

[Joy Lucas]

If I may put forward a few random thoughts -

treat each case individually and not all routinely - just because most
of your cases respond in short duration doesn't mean they all will

a number of sx have been 'treated' but are you sure they haven't been
suppressed or just shifted - hypochondriasis will cover any sx
whatsoever so it is possible that he/his state has just shifted them or
worse, reinforced them, made it go deeper (constant vertigo, if he does
really have this, is quite serious)

but if these are 'true' sx that have really been cured then why change
the rx that cured them, i.e. in that sense he would still be on the
same rx - curing single sx with all these rx he has had isn't good and
I cannot see how he can 'be' all these rx, even after a few years

he has been prescribed a diverse range of rx already and I think you
need to decide which way this case is leaning in terms of 'types' of rx
you have been prescribing

I know I keep mentioning the fact that you said he was hyper as a kid
but if the Ignatia doesn't work for him I would still say you have to
look beyond the shock of the death which could have been a trigger for
an already existing state that goes back some years.

don't forget the placebo - best rx sometimes

make sure he is actually taking the rx

still think he's a spider

I am sure Chris will offer more. Hope useful, best wishes, Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/provings

[myirishenergy]

Joy, I use a remedy until it does nothing for the patient anymore.
Peeling away of layers thus changing remedies. They change, have
different things going on etc. but your thoughts on this might be
his case. Phos just always is in there with him. I'll give him the
Ignatia at the end of this week and stick to it, see what happens,
all depends on what he tells me and if nothing then I'll do a
placebo and go from there.
can't give up on him...he's such a nice guy.
Thanks for all help, it's much appreciated Emily

most
been
them or
does
change
the
and
you
of rx
kid
to
for
ago.
the
week.
on
is
craziness
not
I'm
severe
shot
and
nervous
there is
situation.

[Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.]

Emily, it strikes me that your ending statement "He's such a nice guy"
contains some potential information that will help narrow down remedy
choices. Can you make your assessment more specific -- what's so nice about
him? Is he truly compassionate, or is he pleasant with an edge underneath?
What's the nature of the edge? Is he ALWAYS, unfailingly "nice"? Why is he
being nice?

I've often found that my reaction to a client, when it's strong, can be part
of the "case," a guiding factor in selecting one remedy over another.

Rosemary

[Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.]

Hi, Robyn and Andy.

Very interesting comparison of Ign and Aurum -- thanks Robyn. I asked the question about profusion of symptoms thinking of one particular client for whom I was doing a differential diagnosis among Lach, Lac-c, Lyc, Ign, Anac, Cham, Cann-i, Bell, and then, finally, Puls. I haven't given any of these remedies yet.

However, believe it or not, as I've been waiting for the picture to settle down somewhat, she has in fairly rapid succession presented perfect physical/ mental/ emotional pictures of each of these remedies, and then, will-o-the-wisp, moved on to another picture in a matter of hours or a day or two.

Finally, the incredible changeability, and profusion of different symptoms, always intensely described, then a few days later just as intensely disremembered, for lack of a better term, became itself an obvious focus of the case, beyond the usual manifestations of hypochondriasis.

It's also become clear that the core emotional issue is a delusion and intense anxiety about feeling forsaken or about to be forsaken. Physically, although there has also been an incredible string of pathological or near-pathological problems that have required surgeries or strong medications and then quickly have morphed into something totally different, it's clear that everything on all levels, whatever is going on at a particular moment, intensifies dramatically for a week before her menses. That has been the only consistent modality, so it has to take a very strong position in the case analysis.

The physical affinities have been digestive and genito-urinary.

All the miasms have appeared at one time or another (in the 7 weeks since I first interviewed her!), but the core issues revolve around a Sycotic feeling of being intrinsically defective and needing to hide that to avoid being rejected.

Despite the intense level of suffering, she is actually a very sweet, yielding person. She doesn't have the power issues you'd expect in Lyc, the manipulation or craftiness you'd expect in snake or spider remedies, the competitiveness of animal remedies in general. The core issue is being too sensitive, and we probably need a plant remedy.

She has acne rosacea (barely) on her face, < before menses, and has manifested a minor itchy erythematous rash on her upper chest.

The case is one-sided in a way, because she's so focused on the in-the-moment naming of her current symptoms that she has no awareness of modalities or possible timelines or causalities (having one or two of those in addition to < before menses would really help a lot to distinguish among the competing remedy pictures that have appeared in the manner of a kaleidoscopic slide show). According to Sankaran's method, this would indicate the need to start at a low potency, which I think is the way to enter the case.

Eventually, I'm pretty sure the case will resolve to a Nat-m, Aur-m-n, or even Sepia picture (history of psychological abuse, taking on too much responsibility too early in an alcoholic family, being the "good girl," dwelling on past injuries, etc...), but we're not there now. Ign is the obvious acute remedy here, but the huge influence of menses as a causal modality in every symptom gives me pause in thinking about that remedy. Plus the issue of abandonment is also not totally central as a delusion in Ignatia. And the physical symptoms don't add up to an Ignatia picture.

That patient is why I asked how folks would repertorize the profusion of different symptoms, as a core issue in this case. Andy and Joy's rubric suggestions were very helpful. Two smaller Synthesis rubrics that appear very good, actually are "MIND-HYSTERIA- changing symptoms" in which Pulsatilla is the sole remedy, in intensity 3. Also Generals- change - symptoms, change of," with 7 remedies:
GENERALS - CHANGE - symptoms; change of

ambr. cimic. Ign. Nat-m. PLAT. plb. PULS.

Ambr, Cimic, Ign, Nat-m, and Puls all have resonances with this case.

Many thanks for a helpful discussion. Other impressions about this case obviously are also welcome.
Warmly, Rosemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Rosemary, there is also 'Mind, change, desire for' and also 'Mind, changeable, fickle'
but as always, and as you have found with your case, you need to get beyond the observed
fact that change is a necessary sx and to find out why this is happening - lots of profound
reasons are possible, not many more profound than feeling one is forsaken.

Hypochondriosis is a one step away from Munchausen syndrome, especially closer if
surgery has been involved, a need to 'subject the self to pain' (you might expect this from
one who has been in an abusive situation along with the influence of alcohol, almost as a
need to keep the pain going on). But if it always come back to changeability, i.e. she is
always moving through these phases and not hanging on to them there is no reason why
beautiful Pulsatilla won't cure on its own - as changeable as an April day

Thanks for sharing. Best wishes, Joy

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D." wrote:
about profusion of symptoms thinking of one particular client for whom I was doing a
differential diagnosis among Lach, Lac-c, Lyc, Ign, Anac, Cham, Cann-i, Bell, and then,
finally, Puls. I haven't given any of these remedies yet.
she has in fairly rapid succession presented perfect physical/ mental/ emotional pictures
of each of these remedies, and then, will-o-the-wisp, moved on to another picture in a
matter of hours or a day or two.
intensely described, then a few days later just as intensely disremembered, for lack of a
better term, became itself an obvious focus of the case, beyond the usual manifestations
of hypochondriasis.
about feeling forsaken or about to be forsaken. Physically, although there has also been
an incredible string of pathological or near-pathological problems that have required
surgeries or strong medications and then quickly have morphed into something totally
different, it's clear that everything on all levels, whatever is going on at a particular
moment, intensifies dramatically for a week before her menses. That has been the only
consistent modality, so it has to take a very strong position in the case analysis.
interviewed her!), but the core issues revolve around a Sycotic feeling of being intrinsically
defective and needing to hide that to avoid being rejected.
doesn't have the power issues you'd expect in Lyc, the manipulation or craftiness you'd
expect in snake or spider remedies, the competitiveness of animal remedies in general.
The core issue is being too sensitive, and we probably need a plant remedy.
itchy erythematous rash on her upper chest.
of her current symptoms that she has no awareness of modalities or possible timelines or
causalities (having one or two of those in addition to < before menses would really help a
lot to distinguish among the competing remedy pictures that have appeared in the manner
of a kaleidoscopic slide show). According to Sankaran's method, this would indicate the
need to start at a low potency, which I think is the way to enter the case.
picture (history of psychological abuse, taking on too much responsibility too early in an
alcoholic family, being the "good girl," dwelling on past injuries, etc...), but we're not there
now. Ign is the obvious acute remedy here, but the huge influence of menses as a causal
modality in every symptom gives me pause in thinking about that remedy. Plus the issue
of abandonment is also not totally central as a delusion in Ignatia. And the physical
symptoms don't add up to an Ignatia picture.
symptoms, as a core issue in this case. Andy and Joy's rubric suggestions were very
helpful. Two smaller Synthesis rubrics that appear very good, actually are "MIND-
HYSTERIA- changing symptoms" in which Pulsatilla is the sole remedy, in intensity 3. Also
Generals- change - symptoms, change of," with 7 remedies:
also welcome.

[DCR]

Joy, you make a very interesting connection when you say:
" Hypochondriosis is a one step away from Munchausen syndrome, especially closer if surgery ".

That is certainly a valid point. An alternative perspective however is to look at the individuals relationship to allopathic medical doctors - and the MDs perception of her symptoms. As a simple example - I have recently seen way too much surgery for 'Irritible Bowel' symptoms - when if they had been asked a few questions, tried simple things, tried on wheat free diet to begin with . . . . well - you get the picture. Those having multiple seemingly unrelated symptoms are often being mis-diagnosed, shuffled from specialist to specialist, or not listened to - and can get very frustrated and start grasping at any straw offered. Or worse - the options for meds and surgery are pushed down their throats. Of the last four 'irritible bowel' cases that I worked with, every one was told that without surgery they WOULD get cancer, and even with surgery they would most likely get cancer and so should start on 'therapy' immediately (geee - talk about anxiety).

When Rosemary points out:
"the core emotional issue is a delusion and intense anxiety
about feeling forsaken or about to be forsaken"
and
"the core issues revolve around a Sycotic feeling of being intrinsically
defective and needing to hide that to avoid being rejected"

it makes me wonder if the medical 'professionals' might be a contributing component of these anxieties and fears. There is an element within the allopathic (medical and insurance) approach that creats (or fuels) anxiety, leads you to believe you will be forsaken and totally outside the help of the medical system if you refuse their advice and treatment, and fosters a belief that someone is intrinsically defective and it can only be corrected by surgery or drugs.

I only bring up this as one alternative perspective because several people came to me having been dismissed as 'all in your head' and suffered for years, been treated with 'antidepressants', and shuffled from Dr. to Dr., mostly because they had variable or quickly changing symptoms similar to what Rosemary has described.
_________________

clip from Joy's response to Rosemary:

Dear Rosemary, there is also 'Mind, change, desire for' and also 'Mind, changeable, fickle'
but as always, and as you have found with your case, you need to get beyond the observed
fact that change is a necessary sx and to find out why this is happening - lots of profound
reasons are possible, not many more profound than feeling one is forsaken.

Hypochondriosis is a one step away from Munchausen syndrome, especially closer if
surgery has been involved, a need to 'subject the self to pain' (you might expect this from
one who has been in an abusive situation along with the influence of alcohol, almost as a
need to keep the pain going on). But if it always come back to changeability, i.e. she is
always moving through these phases and not hanging on to them there is no reason why
beautiful Pulsatilla won't cure on its own - as changeable as an April day

Thanks for sharing. Best wishes, Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

What about thuja? Lack of "center", feeling defective, changeable...??
And it has aspects in common with the remedies you're mentioning?
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Well, cynically speaking...
In my experience, "all in your head" has been the "technical
terminology" for, "I have no idea what's causing your problems and I
don't want think about it any more, and nobody's got a drug for it yet,
so it must be your own fault."
Cheers,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.]

Hi, Shannon.

I loved your "technical terminology" translation ))

Rosemary