SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

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dusty1197
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by dusty1197 »

Hi Soroush,

Thank you for your respectful and considerate post. Please
understand that I am not in a position to attempt to persuade anyone
from classical homeopathy, and the fact is that I also practice
classically, believing that it is a beautiful methodology. There
are times, however, when I practice differently, not because I think
Hahnemann got anything wrong, but more because I don't think
Hahnemann's genius would not have continued to evolve and expand had
he had the ability to live on and on.

It's my opinion (and I do stress *opinion*) that no field, much less
one of medicine, can or should stop dead in its tracks, advancing no
further, at the moment that its founder leaves this earth. Also,
I've heard so much disagreement as to the *interpretation* (not the
actual content) of the Organon, that it really is anybody's guess
who is right and who is wrong. We know *Hahnemann* wasn't wrong,
but he couldn't have meant for his words to take on more than one
meaning, so the difficulty lies in interpretation.

Hahmenamm was a man of both science and art. Neither should be
allowed to stagnate, regardless of how impressive its beginnings
are. I guess I just operate from a more tolerant position:
Tolerance of change, tolerance of newness, tolerance of
exploration. That might mean that I don't qualify as mainstream and
I am not entitled to live in "the classical neighborhood", but it
only makes me different in my own right, not wrong or lesser. I
find that it's important that when something different is presented,
those who are in disagreement do not respond in the same manner upon
which racism and intolerance in all forms is predicated: Anger,
rejection and criticism of that which is different or not understood.

I'll answer your questions as best I can. Thank you for your
honesty in informing me of your need for specificity. I respect the
list and the experience of so many on it. I'm fully prepared to
learn and am more than happy to share.

I can't post any entire cases, Soroush, and in fact I have violated
the tenets of ethical practice by posting what I already have in the
absence of client consent. I started by being very general (for
this reason), as evidenced in my original post. But as the
questions came, I gave more and more detail until I realized that I
was not entitled to use these people's cases to support my
position. I aplogize, Soroush; please understand that cases of
severe mental illness, particularly those involving paranoia are not
usually amenable to public exposure. I've asked on a couple of
occasions, as I wanted to post the cases online for input, but the
clients declined in no uncertain terms. I rarely ask this of such
cases anymore, as I have found that it instantly undermines these
clients' trust in me, and trust is a HUGE issue for many of these
people. So I always proceed with the utmost delicacy. Aside from
this restriction, I'll answer your other questions:

take, can you
the same

*** This harkens back to my explanation with regard to
interpretation of the Organon. The answer will challenge
philosophical beliefs, and I know that this list has already been
exposed to discussions of this nature before. According to
Hahnemann, the only time that more than one dis-ease cannot occupy
the living force at once is if they are similar. Which leaves the
question of why can't more than one DISsimilar dis-eases co-exist?
In point of fact, Hahemann describes how more than one dissimilar
disease can occupy the organism at once, "each occupying a
particular region, the site characteristically belonging to it" (Aph
40) He goes on to state that because these diseases are dissimilar
to one another, they cannot extinguish one another. The only
conclusion then is that they co-exist. Hahnemann also describes how
the stronger of the dissimilar diseases may suspend the weaker for a
time and that it can be "sometimes stronger" (Aph 39), from which
the conclusion can be drawn that it can also be sometimes weaker,
meaning that the other dissimilar disease can assert itself at the
times when it is the stronger. So, from this, there have been
interpretations that support the contention that not only can more
than one disease exist in the organism at once, but that, depending
upon when each is stronger or weaker, they may each assert
themselves at various intervals. In addition, Hahmemann speaks of
how allopathic intervention "adds a new disease condition to the old
one" (Aph 39). The very fact that he states that the new disease
condition is "added" to the old one, suggests that the result is two
diseases at once.

you

*** The same way that you would allocate increased thirst and
urination to diabetes and not to rheumatoid arthritis. This, I
believe, is the strongest sticking point with regards to this manner
of rxing. It is paramount to me to ensure that these clients are
comfortable and as stable as possible. If I expect them to come off
of psychotropic and other psychiatric drugs, then I'd better be full
able to keep their mental state on as even a keel as I can
(incidentally, there is always a psychiatrist on these cases, as
well). If that means one remedy for controlling psychosis and
another for controlling acute panic, then I have no alternative but
to use what is needed. Over time, as progress commences, if a
remedy can be discontinued, it is. If a new remedy is in order, it
is rxd. To further enrage those who are chomping at the bit as we
speak, I often also include the constitutional remedy (ala Eizayaga
model) to strengthen the vitality of the client.

Many of these clients are very well informed on their condition(s).
With the advent of Internet lists and support groups, people have
become knowledgeable of their symptoms and those who have a
reasonable level of insight know what they are experiencing. For
instance, a person will know when he is suffering the inability to
embrace the doubt that is characteristic of OCD and is cognizant of
the fact that his/her fears are **probably** unreasonable, but if
there's even the smallest doubt, they must perform whatever
compulsion banishes that doubt. These people will not confuse this
with, say, the paranoid delusions of psychosis, where the sufferer
fully believes, without reservation, that his doubts and fears are
REAL.

In addition, I am very well-versed on psychiatric disorders and so
understand and recognize their characteristics. The cure lies in
identifying what makes each unique to the individual: what drives
their false beliefs, what generates their anxiety, along with the
content of their delusions and fears. Is it a morbid fear of
failure? Is it a morbid fear of loss? An overwhelming sense of
responsiblity? Is there something in their history that marks the
onset, whether a physical or emotional insult? Has there been a
long history of instability with various mental disorders developing
at different stages in the person's life, ultimately culminating in
the present condition? If an etiology can be defined, then I will
not only address it directly, but also continue to use the remedies
that keep the person's mental state stable. And believe me, the
mental state can change on a dime.

Very often the content of the voices characteristic of schizophrenia
and schizoaffective disorder (also bipolar disorder, but much less
commonly) lends VERY strong clues as to what lies behind the
condition. I have found that each case seems to have an enduring
theme upon which the person's torment is predicated. Even olfactory
hallucinations can follow this theme (i.e. a case with sexual abuse
in its history may hallucinate the odor of semen). Each case is
different.

*** This is where I can't proceed any further with specifics,
Soroush. Sorry. I've already exposed too much detail about very
sensitive cases.

Thank you, Soroush. And you, as well :)

Toni


H.T. Cotter
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:18 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by H.T. Cotter »

Dear Toni,

this (your posting of January 14, 12:42 PM) is one of the best posts I've read on this list. With a little editing and some background, this could be a very good print article. I thoroughly agree with your conclusion that Hahnemann would have hardily endorsed the furtherance of medicine that embodied his teachings into the integrated forms of healing that take advantage of modern technology. I, too am a classically trained and practicing homeopath. However, I know that from a practical standpoint, I cannot make a living for myself, or keep my patients bills in check (while I insist on healing those that are curable) without some efficiencies. There are cases that both the patient and I are content to bring to palliation. Only someone who has never suffered from chronic pain or deep depression or panic attacks would be over critical of all palliation.

Fortunately there are many tools available now that weren't available in the 19th century. Had they been, I'm sure that one of Hahnemann's books would have been dotted here and there with instructions to push the F1 key and hold down CTL/ALT, etc. Who among us doesn't use the electronic search capabilities of modern, inexpensive computers? As Hahnemann was fascinated with magnetism and mesmerism so too are we rightfully fascinated with the ability to test skin points for galvanic response. To ignore and not incorporate the findings of Dr. Reinhold Voll and Dr. Roy Curtin into our practices represents the potential of evil by omission (misfeasance). Likewise with Dr. George Goodheart's and Dr. John Diamond's wonderful contributions to exploiting bio-linguistics for the benefit of a suffering humanity. Because teaching weren't introduced by the saints of our profession, or that are used by the allopathic school, shouldn't put restrictions on our using them for our patients.

Hahnemann was emphatic in stating that the only role of the physician was healing the patients. No service is done to him to not let his life work benefit from the progressive dynamics of this world.

Again, thanks for stating the truth in such a clear, courteous and forthright manner. You have my very

Best wishes,

Tom


Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Soroush wrote:

Toni replied:

But this uses the allopathic definition of disease, not the homeopathic one.
I assume (haven't time to look) there are remedies that can cover both RA
and diabetes? I don't think this is the sort of separation of symptoms we'd
necessarily make for homeopathic "constitutional" (not using the term a la
Eizayaga) prescribing. Have I missed something?

Shannon


Paul Booyse
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by Paul Booyse »

So long as we don't assume that any "new ideas" are automatically a
continuation of Hahnmeann. the only way we can PERHAPS get an idea of where
he would be now is to understand where he was heading. And that is quite
clear. Aphorism 2. If you understand the changes from one edition to the
next, you understand aph.2.
Again, we should listen to Hahnemann. He is clear that we should be
unprejudiced observer's, which means we don't interpret, we read it as it
is. So the problem with interpratation is someone has a preconceived idea,
reads Hahnemann and then fits the square peg in the round hole because they
interpret it according to their frame of reference. If Hahnemann wasn't
clear with his statement's, we could lay the blame at his door, but so much
has been misconstrued over statements that are in plain black and white.
I hope you do not find fault my reply. :-)
Understand that in these instances the scenario would be an underlying
chronic disease which is suppressed for a while a dissimilar acute disease,
i.e. the chronic disease is weaker than an acute. If this were not the
case, i.e. if the new disease were a chronic disease, it would by definition
remain and so the weaker disease would not manifest again.

Now Hahnemann does talk about diseases being dissimilar and co-existing, but
that is where he is talking either about two acute diseases (smallpox and
measles) chronic disease, where they are miasmatically different, i.e. two
differing miasms, so it wouldn't be two psoric states or two sycotic states
etc. Mostly he was referring to psora mixed with another miasm, such as
sycosis or syphillis. In these cases he is not talking about their relative
strengths. That doesn't come into the picture. They are so dissimilar that
the existence of the one state does not impinge/threaten/disrupt the
existence of the other. The closer they are in similarity, the more the
dominant one will weaken the other. Similarity leads to complete weakening
of the lesser state which is what happens with homeopathic cure.
Nowhere is Hahnemann saying the stronger disease is chronic. His examples
are acute, intermittent or chronic dsiease being suppressed or cured
(depending on similarity) by an acute disease. Things like measles,
small-pox, scalded head etc. And that's the big thing about homeopathy.
our remedies are like acute illnesses, which is why we shouldn't repeat them
uneccesarily, unless we want to keep our patient in a "dis-eased" state.
Once the remedy has knocked off the disease state, it needs to dissipate so
that aph.9 can kick in.

In addition, Hahmemann speaks of

once again - it is a miasmatically different state. Patient has syphyllis,
you give mercury and the patient starts sweating, has diarrhoea etc, and
from this wasting of vital force, we get activation of a LATENT psora, i.e.
the psora state was there already, but in latency. the mercury acts as a
trigger to activate (read "leading to an increase intensity of action") of
the psora.
Which may be tha case for you. Another homeopath may find a remedy that
covers the psychosis and the acute pain. You have to allow for that. And
the fact then that your method requires two remedies does not mean we should
change homeopathic principles. It would only be an argument if, from
experience, it was never possible to prescribe a remedy that covers bothe
cases, and the fact is that this is possible and has been shown many times
by presented cases. Granted those cases may be presented by well-experience
homeopaths who come up with remedies few homeopaths would have thought of,
but then your postulation is based on the lesser experience of the
homeopath. We can't adulterate homeopathic teaching simply because
homeopaths can't find the remedy. yes, we need to alleviate suffering, but
we must be aware that if we use a multi-disciplinary approach, or prescribe
more than one remedy at a time we are doing it because of our inability and
not because it's the new way of homeopathy and certainly not because
"Hahnmenann would have said so had he been alive today (Organon 13)"

Regards,
Paul


dusty1197
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by dusty1197 »

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Booyse" wrote:

*** Any more than we should automatically assume they are not. Do
you suggest that any person or group is qualified to say one way or
the other?

but
remedy that

*** Acute *panic*, not pain. And if you have ever experienced it,
you would understand how a palliative that can be relied upon to
extinguish it NOW is not up for debate. Meanwhile,
the "constitutional" remedy will address the totality and, if deemed
appropriate, a remedy(ies) based on etiology to address causation.
Now if you insist upon believing that practitioners who practice
such techniques do so because they are unable to find the "right"
remedy, you're entitled to your **opinion** based on your
**understanding**. But just as you have cited that a single remedy
can and has been proven to cure, so, too, can I and a host of others
attest to the same thing using a different technique. A true
comparison would involve long-term follow-up on clients treated with
different methods. But I continue to feel that meeting the client's
needs is what matters. That curing as expediently, permanently and
gently as possible is the yardstick by which ALL methods should be
measured.

Granted those cases may be presented by well-experience
thought of,

*** I do in fact consider myself a baby practitioner, very early in
my practice, 5 years only. But the methods and techniques I employ
come from practitioners who are anything but young in practice: Dr.
Elmiger, for one. Now we can go around and around on whether or not
he has correctly interpreted the Organon and, of course, if his
conclusions differ from yours, you will automatically assume that he
has erroneously carried on Hahnemann's work in a manner that Dr. H
would not have approved.

yes, we need to alleviate suffering, but
prescribe
inability and
because
13)"

*** Opinion, Paul, no matter how hard we try to disguise it, can
never qualify as fact, which is why I always try to preface my
comments with "In my opinion", something I've seen little or none of
from present company. If it is your *opinion* that practitioners
who adhere to the techniques pioneered by those in the field --
practitioners whom your *opinion* does not favor, such as, possibly,
Dr. Elmiger -- cannot "find" the right remedy and so use more than
one, then it is only because you have chosen to understand and
conclude differently.

*** A little tolerance and a dash of humility would be a very nice
addition to this list.

Toni


Sheri Nakken
Posts: 3999
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by Sheri Nakken »

Why do we keep going thru this on this list
Is it not clear? This list is for CLASSICAL prescribing
Not Elmiger, not Heilkunst.
Classical according to the Organon.

There are other lists for ecletic practices that have usurped the name of
homeopathy
Why can't people find their own name and term for what they do and leave
the word homeopathy out of it?
That's my question.

At 08:55 PM 01/17/2005 -0000, you wrote:
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
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subject of 'Digest' to minutusgroup@yahoo.com to receive a single daily
digest.


dusty1197
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by dusty1197 »

Sheri, I understand your frustration. The point is, I prescribe
classically (which is why I'm here!), but am not limited to it, and
was not out to "usurp" anything or even get involved in
philosophical debate! I offered my experience and then clarified
myself when asked to. All I request is that the knowledge and
skills of practitioners who have contributed to the field of
homeopathy (whether Elmiger or otherwise) not be maligned or
offhandedly dismissed based on difference of opinion. I simply
would not dream of treating another practitioner in that manner and
can't understand how others feel so entitled! I think it's a fair
request that practitioners of *any* healing art treat one another
with respect. I had no intention of pursuing any of this, but,
honestly, should one practitioner really suggest that another's
technique is "stupid", or that because of differences in
methodology, a practitioner suffers from lack of ability? Please, I
enjoy this list, but let's exercise some self-restraint and show a
modicum of decorum as professionals who share the goal of bringing
others to the enjoyment of good health. I'm here to learn and
share -- nothing more!

Regards,
Toni
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken
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Julian Winston
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by Julian Winston »

At 9:03 PM +0000 1/17/05, Sheri Nakken wrote:
It is a good question!
The word, in itself, was coined by Hahnemann to describe the system:
Similar suffering.
The practice of homeopathy has to do SOLELY with the application of simillimum.
It has NOTHING to do with the use of "potentized" substances that are
prepared by a homeopathic pharmacy, labelled as (according to law)
"homeopathic" and given for indications that are NOT homeopathic.
Homeopathy is NOT the medicine but, rather, the proper application of
the law of similars.

I have not seen, in any other field of endevour, one group trying use
the name of another group. Long ago I wrote an editorial about this
in HT. I believe it was called "Is Knitting Oil-Painting?" I think we
would agree that knitting is NOT oil-painting. Does the practitioner
of one try to call themselves the other? No. They understand the
differences. A car mechanic does not call himself an electrician, nor
does an electrician usurp the title of "plumber." All seems to have
its place until we get to homeopathy.

It has always been my position that much of what passes as
homeopathy, isn't. That is not to say that whatever it is is not
useful or, perhaps, curative, but it does not fit the bill of being
prescribed according to the simillimum.
Part of the problem is that even "classical" homeopathy has taken
into itself, over the years, a number of remedies/practices that are
tangential to the concept of "similarity"-- the miasmatic nosodes
(med., syph., tub.), remedies whose "similarity" has been seen
through clinical use and NOT through provings, etc.

The only thing one can do is to be aware of these "tangents" when
they occur, and to understand that often they are not pure homeopathy
(symptom similarity) and accept them as such.

JW


J Lucas
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by J Lucas »

Precisely, and one other question to Toni is for her to show how it can be
known that when more than one remedy is prescribed in this non-classical and
non-homeopathic method, which remedy is working and if both are allegedly
working how that can be seen, understood, managed and proven. She cannot do
this.

If it is merely based on opinion and cloning someone else¹s non classical
method then that is a poor and irresponsible approach to people who are
really suffering with any illness whether it be mental or physical, in my
opinion and without a dash of tolerance or humility because I believe your
practice to be dangerous and does not belong on this list.

Joy
on 17/1/05 9:03 pm, Sheri Nakken at homeopathycures@tesco.net wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jeremy Crowley
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: SIMILIMUM (was Obsessive compulsive disorder)

Post by Jeremy Crowley »

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Booyse" wrote:
Some time ago I listened to a tape of Edward Whitmont? who said something
along the lines of 'No one criticised the Wright brothers for not designing the
Jet Airliner'
More importantly to me, no-one criticises the designers of the latest Airbus
for not sticking to the methods the Wright brothers used to make their first
'plane (out of string and bits of wood!).
Hahmeman was a genius, but I do not find the fact that a method can not be
found in the Organon as a reason for condemning it. We should expect some
progress in 200+ years, also it is generaly accepted that Hahneman used
alternating remedies, but to my knowledge this is not in the Orgenan.
I have been delighted to see such dignified and intelligent discussions on
these issues.A credit to us all.
Jeremy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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