Suicide prevention question

[Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom\(NA\)]

I wanted to ask if anyone has any experience preventing someone bent on committing suicide from actually doing it using only homeopathic remedies as treatment.

Someone we know, who has been depressed with suicidal thoughts for a long time, has now failed out of school after his second year in law school -- primarily because he was already very depressed. He has been very unhappy at this school, but has also gotten deeply into debt to pay for it, and if they do not accept his appeal to be reinstated provisionally and make up the work he did poorly on, he sees no other way out than suicide.

He refuses to see a psychiatrist or take medications. He has his plans all made, and is waiting to see if they accept him back.

Constitutionally, Hyoscyamus was indicated a couple of months ago, and he was willing to take it as a way to feel not quite so miserable while he was waiting to find out the ruling. Hyoscyamus has worked well for him in many ways, but while he continues to take it, he has also refined his plans for suicide and his sense of the inevitability of it -- that he has to do it. This is not a direction of cure.

He plans to hang himself, in a way that causes problems for the school through negative publicity -- revenge. But his original underlying motivation was a delusion that only bad things can happen to him, and the only way out is to kill himself. He's doesn't feel guilty, just singled out (not by any single agent) for persecution, I guess you'd call it.

Among the bad things that have happened is a string of refusals by girls to go out with him, which had obsessed him up to the time of the law school debacle -- his reaction to that led to the Hyos as a prescription. Based on the determination to hang himself and his absolute conviction that he has to commit suicide, with the underpinning of financial distress as well as despair, I asked him to take Ars, 200c which he says "settled his stomach, "then 1M, (Unfortunately, I can't get him to acknowledge any physical symptoms in any direct way -- so there hasn't been a whole lot to go on -- nothing like a complete case. He'll only talk about how he feels for a couple of minutes at a time, with long intervals in between). Aside from his stomach, Ars hasn't helped with his energy or feelings of despair at all.

I gave him Aur 200c today, with 1M in reserve. But I had already given him Aur two years ago, when he first told us about his suicidal thoughts, and it did nothing for him then -- so I'm not optimistic about it. He continues to take Hyos 12c most days, because he finds it comforts him. However, I'm sure the Hyos is palliative, since at the same time his emotional picture has gotten dramatically worse. This person is not a client of mine, not under regular homeopathic treatment -- I've just been trying, when the occasion has presented itself, to help prevent him from actually carrying out his plan, if at all possible.

We've gotten him to promise to talk anonymously with a suicide hotline before he actually commits the act, which I expect will happen before the end of July -- within the next 2-3 weeks. The basis for this was as a favor to his friends, to help make us feel a little better maybe... (Yeah, right.).

We've gotten advice from several experienced psychiatrists as well as trained suicide prevention personnel on what are the possible measures to take that would not be counterproductive, and we have done everything possible in that area. So my question is not about the other measures to take, but really focuses on the homeopathic possibilities in such an extreme circumstance, where a person has an absolutely firm delusional basis for suicide, a lifelong history of depression, and a strong immediate motivation for killing himself now rather than later. All the suicide prevention professionals we've talked to have had to concede that if a person is absolutely determined to take his or her own life, s/he will ultimately do it, no matter what external measures people try to apply to prevent it. The only potential solution I can see is trying to dissolve or soften the underlying delusion if that's possible with a remedy. He's not willing at all to concede rationally that the problem is a delusion or that it's not necessarily permanent and unchanging.

Thanks. Rosemary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jean Doherty]

MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; thoughts (K85, SI-980, G68) (35) : Aur.,
Aur-s., Nat-s., Psor., anac., ant-c., caps., hep., ign., merc., puls.,
rhus-t., thuj-l., agn., alum., alum-p., alum-sil., arg-n., but-ac.,
dros., fuli., gels., hydrog., iris, kali-ar., kali-br., lac-d., lach.,
lil-t., med., naja, nit-ac., prot., thuj., zinc-p.
I thought of Kali Brom on reading letter. Does he have any of the
characteristics , busy hands, not looking at you
Crotalus cascavella not in above rubric but it thinks about death a
lot,.
Veratrum concerned about position ?//about being rejected.
Psorinum the financial despair.
I hope you find a way into the case. Blessings Jean

On 14/07/2005, at 10:55 AM, Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom((NA))
wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jean Doherty]

As an absolute last resort he could be scheduled for[ I think] 3
days, if friends picked up on imminent event, Jean
On 14/07/2005, at 10:55 AM, Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom((NA))
wrote:

[Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom\(NA\)]

We know about the 3 days -- actually 71 hours in California. Trouble is, he's smart enough to conceal from us when the event is imminent, and has told us he will do so. I'll share this with his other friends, though, so if anyone happens to be in the right place at the right time, they'll know what to do. Of course, the concensus is that it just delays the act of suicide if someone is absolutely determined to do it, as this person is. Thanks very much for your help and good wishes. Rosemary

[Marybeth Buchele]

Yes, in most states concerned friends and/or family can do a three day psych
hold. Not an easy thing to do, but keeps the person away from the tools of
their own destruction for a little while.
Best wishes and you will be in my prayers.
Marybeth
In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:08:28 PM Central Standard Time,
clelly@bigpond.com writes:

As an absolute last resort he could be scheduled for[ I think] 3
days, if friends picked up on imminent event, Jean
On 14/07/2005, at 10:55 AM, Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom((NA))
wrote:
Marybeth Buchele Professional Homeopath
dba Health Naturally Homeopathy Services
3601 Park Center Blvd. Suite 305
St. Louis Park, MN 5541
952-933-6068
_www.healthnaturally.biz_ (http://www.healthnaturally.biz/)

Natural Health for Mind and Body
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Rosemary,
Sounds like control is really important to him. I don't know if you still can give him a remedy, but could Platinum be anywhere close? He seems to have friends but are they far below him? I am thinking of the rubric haughty. Also his response to sexual rejections.
Blessings,
Ellen

[Caro Andujar]

Hi Rosemary,

Thoughts, persistent, suicide; of: manc

Mind, delusions, vindictive could be another important
one to look up.

Also, if his main goal is a "surprise suicide", why
sharing his plans in the first place? Isn't he taking
pleasure in the helplessness of others about it? Could
it be that he's doing a proving of Hyos. by taking 12c
repeatedly?

Lots of questions and no answers... best of luck with
this one.

Caro.
--- "Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom(NA)"
wrote:
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[usrar ulhaque]

AURUM MET IS BEST FOR PREVENTING SUICIDE ISRAR

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[RAVALARD]

Hello

Do you know if it exists in the world litterature a proving of the main
not venomous snakes (boa constrictor, python, etc)?
Thanks
Dr Jean-Claude Ravalard

[Joy Lucas]

An extraordinary number of remedies come into play for such a desperate
situation. Difficult as well homeopathically because, like in any acute
situation, the remedy has to work quickly and preferably aim to get
the simillimum first time round.

The 'revenge' aspect is a helpful clue - as is the 'method' (in this
case hanging, he is left dangling, his whole future is in the hanging
balance and the notion of 'falling' comes into the scenario) - as is
the 'planning' aspect (letting people know what he is going to do) -
finally, 'only bad things happen to him' can mean a number of things
such as delusion persecuted, delusion despised, etc

Remedies that I would include would be a number of the milks; veratrum;
anacardium (he has a stomach problem??); china; and hellebore depending
on which of the above aspects are dominant (hellebore is in the hanging
rubric).

For what its worth and from a miasmatic point of view I would offer
that in a psoric state someone would think about suicide but would
never actually do it - a sycotic state would mean that they could
certainly attempt it but might make sure someone is around to help them
or bring them back (the 'planning' aspect might mean that); someone in
a syphilitic state will do it, often without warning but it will be
successful sometimes in front of many people, other times when totally
alone.

What a sad world.

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com

On 14 Jul 2005, at 01:55, Rosemary C Hyde, Ph.D., C.C.H., RSHom(NA)
wrote:
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