Wild child

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Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Wild child

Post by Shannon Nelson »

I'd love to have any impressions re this girl (have not taken a "full"
case), and also some suggestions re rubrics. E.g., The "lying" seems to be
important (details below), but I wonder whether the rubric

MIND; LIAR (27) : alco., androc., arg-n., bell., calc., carb-v., caust.,
coca, con., cupr-acet., kola., lyc., lyss., med., merc., MORPH., nat-m.,
nux-v., Op., phos., puls., sil., staph., sulph., syph., thuj., Verat.

is complete, or the right rubric for the situation???

She does not seem to have any physical problems, except I think I've heard
menstrual cramps mentioned. She appears very healthy, has *plenty* of
energy. But -- read on! :-)

YJ is a pretty, chatty, outgoing 16 year old. Pretty face (tubercular
shape?), sparkly eyes and cheerful, vivacious manner. (Sometimes subdued,
but not usually.)

In the past I tried Tub for her, on basis of (very inadequate casetaking
and) rather wild and (I thought) "adventure seeking"(?) behavior (and also
appearance, sparkly eyes!), but saw no effect at all. Now things have moved
along, and her sister gives a *much* filled in picture.

Mother worries about leaving YJ alone (e.g. to look after her younger
siblings, tho at 16 she ought to be "old enough"!) because of her wild (my
word) behavior. Last time the parents were away YJ had a bunch of kids over
for a drinking party, got (according to her sister YM) completely plastered,
had the (three younger) brothers locked in their rooms for the night (which
I guess is a good thing in this context!). Afterwards when the mother
confronted her, she denied the whole thing, even when faced with the
leftover stash of beer and an empty vodka bottle. YM does not know whether
drinking is a frequent thing, but thinks this wasn't the first time. (Tho
it was the first in her own house!)

If her sister's reporting (which I consider reliable!) and my understanding
are correct, it seems that she lies freely, frequently, and without any
apparent remorse or embarrassment. Sometimes her sister wonders whether she
YJ begins to believe her own lies. Some lies are for convenience (e.g.
denying something that she did), others seem to be for "entertainment" or
effect, maybe even just for whim, it seems.

Her behavior toward her sister YM has been *outrageous* right along -- e.g.
when we met them (four years ago) they shared a smallish room. The girls
had divided the room in half, as YJ is a "slob" and YM is rather neat. YJ
took the half of the room with the (double) bed in it, so YM slept on the
floor. (Why? Because YJ would throw fits if HM argued, and so it was
"easier...") YJ orders her siblings around very freely and forcefully,
taking and using whatever she wants of her sister's clothes and belongings
and taking advantage of her in a variety of creative ways (getting paid for
her sister's babysitting, etc.).

YJ is *very* strong-willed, accustomed to getting her way!!! If she's given
resistance, she pushes and pushes and pushes until she gets it. Or, with
sister and mother, she fusses and fusses and fusses, and if necessary yells
and screams and manipulates and sneaks -- until she prevails. Sadly, mom is
very mild, and not a match for her daughter, tho she's trying.

YJ spreads (and starts) rumors (e.g. has started telling people that her
brother uses pot, but this is apparently not true!); gossips freely and
apparently also embellishes at will.

She is "two-faced" -- will say bad things about her friend, talk as tho she
doesn't like her, doesn't want to be around her, but then act "all
buddy-buddy" when they are together, and continues to hang out with her a
lot. I asked YM (sister) whether she thought that the "bad talk" was just
for effect and YJ really likes the friend, or whether she really feels the
things she says but hangs out with her anyway? YM thinks it is the latter.

Last night while YM was here visiting my daughter, and YJ was home alone
(brothers elsewhere, Mom and Dad away), YJ phoned here a number of times,
trying to get YM to come home, then called back saying that YM's friend was
trying to reach her and she needed to call and come meet them. (Mom has
said that YJ is "afraid" to be home alone -- I don't know whether that's
specific to night, or whether she just hates to be alone, or ?? At any rate
she is *easily bored*!!!! Not a reader; restless; likes to be talking, in
the middle of things, seeks excitement, etc.)

YJ has complained in the past that she doesn't "like" her friends and that
they are "going nowhere", yet she hangs around with them anyway because
there's nothing better. She fights her mom to be able to run with them --
and do just as they do (the "going nowhere" question aside)!! E.g. drinking
parties, running the streets, hanging out. Don't know if there are other
things involved or not (drugs or sex), but I'm thinking those can't be far
off (at best) at this rate.

Mom has talked about how much time YJ likes to spend at the apartment of her
friend C. Mom doesn't like her to go there, because it is largely
unsupervised and sometimes they drink there. (But I'm not really sure how
one can keep YJ in line at this point, short of locking her into a very
small room, which is not recommended...) Mom mentions a recent time when YJ
was supposed to be home but was still at C's, so went storming over to bring
YJ home, found her sitting in the kitchen talking with C's mom (who is an
alcoholic with *lots* of problems!), who was giving her a manicure. H was
touched to realize that not *all* of YJ's time "on the road" was spent
hanging out with boys and running wild... And, despite her behavior with
her sister, I do think that YJ has a good heart. She does seem to genuinely
care about her friends, at least the ones she perceives as being in need.
She has always been friendly with me (a "mere mom" :-) ), seems eager to
have someone (a grown-up?) to share her (many) concerns and unhappinesses
with. Which makes me maybe a less-than-objective observer... :-)

She is a prankster!!!! Loves to fool people, sometimes with an elaborate
set-up and sometimes just an outrageous lie, convincingly delivered. She is
fun to be with and has had plenty of friends -- but according to YM even
some of YJ's friends have started avoiding her because they're bothered by
her gossiping (back-stabbing) and the way she treats her sister.

YJ seems to be lacking a "center", doesn't seem to really know where or how
to "settle", where she wants to go or how she wants to get there. It seems
that she often says or does things "for effect", because she herself isn't
really sure what the truth is -- this is just *my impression*... My
impession is that her sense of self is in some way not strong or defined.

I'm missing something here, but hope this is enough to start with. Remedies
I'm considering so far (and I would love feedback on any!) are cann-i (but
she seems so definitely < from being alone, and so *always* desirous of
company, but i don't see cann-i under those rubrics; and phos (which reps
well but I *think* this goes beyond phos -- or does it???), and maybe (tho I
don't know the remedy well yet at all) Morph. -- but am very open to all
ideas!
All feedback appreciated!
Thanks,
Shannon


Mary Marlowe
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:00 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by Mary Marlowe »

At 12:48 PM 10/18/2004 -0500, you wrote:
I notice that a few remedies associated with the rabies miasm are here:
Lyssin, arg-n, bell, etc... but don't see Stramonium or Hyoscyamus (which
also come to mind at some points when reading the rest of the narrative).
Fear of being alone at night for Stramonium, and saying things for their
shock value for Hyoscyamus (not sure if that exactly fits).

Also, Medorrhinum might not be far off. And Medorrhinum looks pretty darned
tubercular, so that really might be a good fit. Check for confirmatories
like food preferences and aversions, history of parents and grandparent's
health (looking for sycosis) and general stuff. Read the materia medica,
because it doesn't fall out so easily in the repertory.

You might also want to look at why the sister and mom are such push overs
....

Mary
Mary Marlowe -- marlowe@onlynatural.info
http://www.onlynatural.info/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Thanks Mary, good thoughts!
(The mom is a pushover because she needs a remedy, but the sister is a
pushover because the "patient" is a bit of a "force of nature"! :-) (As
well as the eldest.)

I'm trying to think about why she says all these untrue things -- not sure
that "to shock" is really the motivation, but I'm not sure. It *seems* to
me that it could be for a variety of reasons -- sometimes to weasel out of
an inconvenient situation, sometimes to impress, and sometimes, I really
think, just to be talking, just to stir things up. The *feeling* I have
from it/her (and I'll have to see whether I can confirm/deny/expand this) is
that she's not really sure where she stands in relation to all of this, so
she kind of tries things out, or does/says things just to see what happens,
how it works. Sort of "deceit by default" rather than by plan?

Anyway, I'll look at this, thanks!
Shannon

on 10/18/04 1:40 PM, Mary Marlowe at marlowe@onlynatural.info wrote:


d_barbara_hamilton
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:47 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by d_barbara_hamilton »

Hi Shannon,

On reading, an initial impression was Medorrhinum ("larger than life"
character), but I also wondered about Tarentula? (Why? Well, I see
someone who is not receiving the right kind of attention - in her mind -
and she craves it from you, so maybe treat Mom? Sankaran mentions "A
person needs to attract attention in a situation where he wants to be
noticed and is not. ....a situation of unrequited love."

However, you feel she is 'not all there', so maybe not. I guess you need
to get more Generals etc. to get a real crack at the right remedy.

Best wishes, Barbara

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Bob&Shannon
wrote:
sure
of
really
is
happens,
to be
nat-m.,
here:
(which
narrative).
their


Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Mm, tarentula (and especially your explanation of why) is a *very*
interesting idea. (Someone else suggested that too!) I am *dying* to treat
mom, but so far she hasn't taken my bait. :-) Maybe later...

I have thought of tarent as having stronger physical restlessness than she
shows -- is that not necessarily so? YJ is restless in certain ways --
always wants to be going somewhere, doing something, involved in things --
"getting attention" seems like a good direction! She (and her friends)
spends a lot of time out "roaming" -- just walking the streets, hanging out
in the park, visiting. But when she is in conversation etc., she does not
appear physically restless -- no trouble sitting still, and her problems
with staying "on task" seem to be about boredom and mental restlessness more
than physical. What do you think -- can that still suit the picture of
tarent??? It's not a remedy I know well.

With four siblings (all homeschooled until recently) and a busy mom, she
probably isn't getting as much one-on-one as would be useful, and mom is so
frustrated with her that she sometimes puts out disapproval messages that
are unfortunate IMO. (Not straying too far from objective truth, but still,
placing emphasis in unfortunate directions. Not constantly or exclusively,
but I think YJ is vulnerable in that area.)

I'll get more information. I'm trying to do as much groundwork as I can
before I start asking *her* questions (or asking if she wants to "try
something for"...). I'm self-conscious about the "wearing different hats"
issue!

"Not all there"... I'm not sure. When you talk with her she *seems* quite
"all there" -- alert, appreciative, responsive, etc. OTOH -- she strikes me
as a smart girl (quick and alert, I guess), yet says some of the *ditziest*
things, in all seriousness. I heard *about* it, from mom and sister, long
before I heard her *do* it -- but it's quite true... Can't remember
specific examples. I seem to gather that she also has trouble with sense of
direction (e.g. she said something about taking a "wrong turn" in going to
meet someone six blocks from her home in a town of 2,000 (i.e., "small"!).
I'm not sure how I'd describe or rep the "penchant for ditzy remarks" --
something about confusion or mistakes, I suppose... And I think of-a-piece
with (what looks to me like) boundary issues. Could (I think) suit phos (I
don't see her as phos, tho am surprised at how much of her picture phos
covers!) or Med or Cann-i... What else, any other thoughts on that?

Thanks again (and all)!

Shannon
on 10/19/04 4:10 AM, d_barbara_hamilton at d_barbara_hamilton@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:


d_barbara_hamilton
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:47 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by d_barbara_hamilton »

Hi Shannon,

Just a few thoughts: Phos can look like Med (and Sulphur), but you will
be the best judge of whether she is phosphoric enough to warrant it. It is
listed under 'destructive rage', and it is of course a predominantly
syphilitic remedy, so maybe....

With Tarantula, there is usually a 'busyness' about them, even when
sitting still. I know of one px who would sit perfectly still - except for
her hands/fingers - between which she would be rubbing a silky/soft piece
of material. Like a spider in a web sits still, in the middle, waiting, and on
alert. Does she have that feeling of being 'on adrenalin' ? Tarent can be
quite 'focussed' (to the exclusion of all else) and can appear quite
eccentric (for want of a better word), or if they are highly intelligent, very
single-minded and goal-orientated. Her "roaming" is not uncommon at
that age, so not worth pin-pointing IMO.

Tarent. also has "cheerfulness alternating with ennui, boredom" but then
again, that isn't uncommon in her age group either! The SOH magazine
gave a differential between Phos and Tarent. of "Phosphorus is more
distractible and more reactive and influenced by external events.
Tarentula is more driven from the inside." They feel a hurry, internally.
So be looking for 'intensity'. *Engaging people* (like Phos) - they draw
you in and usually highly manipulative (which Phos is not generally).

I'm not making a case for it, it was just an idea based on the info you have
to date. Med. looks interesting too (spacey), but without a case it really
is just 'guesswork'.

Hope you get an "in". :-)

Good luck! Barbara

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Bob&Shannon
wrote:
treat
she
things --
out
restlessness more
she
is so
that
still,
exclusively,
hats"
quite
me
of
to
"small"!).
of-a-piece
phos (I
phos

mind -
mentions "A
need

is a
(As
*seems* to
out
this)
so


J Lucas
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by J Lucas »

It is beginning to sound to sound like a typical teenager Sulphur to me.
Will you be able to share the whole case with us when you have taken it.

Best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 19/10/04 3:02 pm, Bob&Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:

Mm, tarentula (and especially your explanation of why) is a *very*
interesting idea. (Someone else suggested that too!) I am *dying* to treat
mom, but so far she hasn't taken my bait. :-) Maybe later...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


APEX PRECITECH
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:00 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by APEX PRECITECH »

Hi Shannon,
Though nowadays I shudder at the thought of "mentals
only" cases where the pitfalls are too many, can't
resist this one.

Try to look at Lyc. The habitual lying belongs to lyc
and opium.(All opium addicts are creative lyers.). I
once was treating a man whose acute conditions were
always lyc.Thirstless,hot,refusing covers. His chronic
was also lyc. Had a wart on tongue, keen intellect,
fond of sweets, dominating. This was enough to give
him lyc. But he later he told me this since I was also
his friend: That if cornered in a conversation or
argument , he would not hesitate even a second to
unleash a blatant lie that will shatter the opponent !

Your miss 16 is uneasy being alone, yet can't
accommodate the company . Also the dominating mindset.
These are strongly lyc.

I would dig further for some physicals. Particularly
menstrual, food habits, stool and urine, appetite-
when it is strong ( esp for lyc- they are hungry on
getting up),sleep.

One thing more:Psychologically the seeking attention,
quarreling with co born etc are very plain and common
symptoms and we will be safe in not reading much into
them.The thing to be cured here can be her Lying and
Alchoholism. Focus on these and the mental and
physical generals and the case will soon crack.

All the best.
Venkat
wrote:

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony


Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Thanks Venkat,
I'll think about Lyc (tho her "feel" is not what I think of for lyc -- but
that proves nothing!).

I know that her sibling conquests are common; but the intensity with which
she conducts it I think *is* unusual, and also the *way* she does it ties in
so much with other things... But you're right, I need to not put too much
emphasis on the normal "kid stuff", thanks.

Just to reassure you -- I don't plan on doing this as a "mentals only"; just
getting oriented and getting some ideas.

Cheers,
Shannon
on 10/19/04 11:16 AM, J.VENKATA SUBRAMANIAN at apexpreci2000@yahoo.co.in
wrote:


dusty1197
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Re: Wild child

Post by dusty1197 »

Shannon, I can't help but wonder about what exactly in this case is
in need of treatment? Is this the mother seeking a "remedy" for her
daughter's deceptive inclinations? We know nothing of this girl's
lifestyle, family, environment, background, etc. I always say that
children aren't born this way; they're made.

What you describe sounds to me like the nature of a Sulph teenage
girl with too much freedom and possibly a need for attention,
negative or otherwise. So I ask, is she < for being alone, or < for
not having an audience? She sounds like a performer. If pressed to
define this symptomatically, I *might* move in the direction of the
following:

MIND - DECEITFUL
MIND - AFFECTATION
MIND - CONTEMPTUOUS
MIND - HAUGHTY
MIND - EXCITEMENT - desire for
MIND - OBSTINATE
MIND - UNSYMPATHETIC
MIND - DICTATORIAL
MIND - LIBERTINISM

Have you looked at Plat?

Toni

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Bob&Shannon
wrote:
a "full"
seems to be
caust.,
nat-m.,
Verat.
I've heard
*plenty* of
(tubercular
subdued,
casetaking
(and also
have moved
younger
wild (my
kids over
plastered,
night (which
mother
the
know whether
time. (Tho
understanding
without any
whether she
(e.g.
for "entertainment" or
along -- e.g.
The girls
neat. YJ
on the
was
forcefully,
belongings
paid for
she's given
Or, with
necessary yells
Sadly, mom is
that her
freely and
as tho she
with her a
was just
feels the
the latter.
alone
times,
friend was
(Mom has
that's
At any rate
talking, in
and that
because
them --
E.g. drinking
are other
can't be far
apartment of her
sure how
very
time when YJ
over to bring
(who is an
manicure. H was
spent
behavior with
genuinely
in need.
eager to
unhappinesses
elaborate
delivered. She is
YM even
bothered by
where or how
It seems
herself isn't
My
defined.
with. Remedies
cann-i (but
desirous of
(which reps
maybe (tho I
to all


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