weeping

[Rosemary C Hyde PhD]

Hennie,
Here are three rubrics that might work to help you find a good remedy when combined with other symptoms.
MIND - SENSITIVE - music, to

Acon.a1,b7.de,bg2,br1,h1,k aloebg2,st,vh1 Ambr.bg2,br1,k,mrr1 anac.bg2,sf1.de arg-met.vh arn.bg2 aur.btw bry.bg2 bufok cact.k Calc.bg2,sf1.de carb-an.bg2,k carc.cd,fb,jl2,mg1.de,mtf33,sp1,st1 caust.a1,h2,k Cham.a1,b7.de,bg2,h1,k coff.b7.de,bg2,k cop.a1,bg1,st1 Croc.bg1,bg2,br1,gl1.fr,st1 cupr.bg2 dig.bg2,k Graph.bg2,k hippoc-k.szs2 Ign.bg2,mtf33,sf1.de,b7.de ip.gsd kali-c.bg2 kali-p.fd1.de Kreos.k,mrr1,bg2 Lyc.k,bg2 merc.h1,k,a1 NAT-C.k,mrr1,bg2 Nat-m.mrr1,k nat-p.k Nat-s.k,mrr1,tl1,bg2 NUX-V.bg2,k,b7.de pall.sf1.de,bg2 Ph-ac.bg2,k,b4.de phos.k,k2,mtf33,bg2 phys.bg2 psil.ft1 puls.bg2 Sabalptk Sabin.bg2,k,b7.de SEP.k,tl1,bg2 stann.k,bg2 staph.bg2 sulph.st1,tl1,bg2 Tab.st1 Tarent.br1,k,bg2 thuj.k,mlk1,mtf33,bg2 tub-k.c1 tub.br,c1,dp,lp,bg viol-o.b7.de,bg2,hr1,k,a1 zinc-p.k2,k13 zinc.k,bg2

MIND - WEEPING - music, from

acon.bg2,bro1,gl1.fr,sf1.de Ambr.bg2,br1,bro1,sf1.de carc.fb,hbh,zzl croc.bg dig.k GRAPH.a1,br1,hr1,k,mrr1,mtf33,tl1 ham.fd3.de ign.sf1.de kali-n.k Kreos.a1,br1,k Nat-c.k,mrr1 nat-m.st1 nat-s.k,mrr1 Nux-v.a1,gl1.fr,k,k1 sabin.bro1,sf1.de tarent.bro1 Thuj.br1,k,mlk1,mtf33

MIND - PHENOMENA - WEEPING, tearful mood - general - joy, from

acon.kr COFF.kr corian-s.knl falco-pe.nl kolastb lach.k lars-arg.fkw lyc.k merc.kr neonsrj PLAT.k puls.ctc succ.es

[Hennie Duits]

Maybe some on the list can share some thoughts about this: This is a man who
might, though not always, weep from music that really 'takes' him (can be
Sibelius, can be Beatles, can be Puff Daddy), but tears are sure to come if,
after a concert, or a song in a concert, the public or crowd bursts out in
enthousiastic applause, whistling, etc. That's when he gets 'dragged along',
for sure: when hearing, or being part of, such enthusiasm there is no way to
stop his tears.
I feel 'weeping - sympathetic' does not quite cover this, because I think
that would be more like feeling personally someone else's grief, or sadness,
or even anger and get affected by such feelings. He, however, certainly does
not get dragged along easily by the anger or grief of others. His tears are
(almost) exclusively like 'tears from unified joy'. Any thoughts?

Hennie

[andyh]

Hennie Duits wrote:
=========
Dear Hennie,
Would the rubric SENTIMENTAL work in this case....(?)
There is a discussion of a kind of exaggerated sentimentality in Hahnemanns discussion of the effects of Coffee:

"....He observes an exaggerated gaiety or sentimentality which far exceeds the nature of its object, a tenderness almost convulsive or an extreme sadness, or sallies which surpass the limits of reason, or contortions of the muscles of the face, which degenerate into true caricatures, instead of a mind smile, a little irony, a moderate affliction or compassion. ..."

This little book by Hahnemann includes an investigation of the toxicology of coffee, so it is both a naturopathic admonition and an observation on a mass proving that he did not have to use an rx to commence...

Coffea is in the rubric VENERATION. So it is not hard to see that they can tie into a feeling of admiration and unification with something that moves them. A mixture of sentimentality and veneration. If it came up in the case somehow by his volunteering, could ailments from Joy be noted (why otherwise would this be any kind of issue; (or is it an observed characteristic) But coffea might not fit the rest of the case....

Manganum, anh, cann-i and some other rx have some exaggerated effects from music...

RW searches below.

Best Andy
=========

1
Sentimental [sen] music: ambr.221, 3Carc.188, 3Lac-del.204, 2lyc., 3Nat-m.214

Ambra

boedler-richardson
.....Hearing music right before resting time may also further the sleeplessness, as listening to music causes a rush of blood to the head and stimulates sentimental feelings and weeping. ...

vermuelen syn 1
LEADING SYMPTOMS:
"VERY SENSITIVE, sentimental persons, sensitive to music, to surroundings, to natural phenomena, like thunderstorms, ROMANTIC persons, who love soft lights, dim lights, dinner by candle-light" [Kokelenberg and Dockx].

Complete 2000 (lac delphinum-herrick)
SENTIMENTAL: MUSIC, LISTENING. {0> 1> 0} [204]

Lyc BHJ article
Reacts vividly to music and sentimental stories.

Sankaran
As with other remedies of the mineral kingdom, Natrum muriaticum patients are very organized. They are independent and dependable. They care a lot about structures like the house, relationships, date and timings. I have observed that many of them like music, especially the sad, sentimental type. They are also fond of novels and other literature based on relationships.

==============

2
(sentimental [sen] music) [rem] (weeps/joy [sen] music): ambr.221, 3Carc.188, 2nat-m.214

3
Joy [sen] music: anh., cann-i.36, coff.8, , 3Mang.1, sabin., (sac-alb ( 1 case reference only)).

anhal (Amer Homeo. '95)
The process of self degradation continues. Whereas before, the patient felt love and joy looking at scenery, at life and nature, music, and loving different aromas, they are now accosted by these very same stimuli. Now all these external stimuli are too much to bare. They stop feeling the border where they end and the rest of the universe begins. They are one and the same as the rest of the universe.

cann-i (Allen)
The words died away and I still went on with the accompaniment; my mind carried the air, and all surrounding objects faded; I lived wholly in the music, and a deep subdued joyous feeling, such as I never before felt, pervaded my whole being.

coff(choud)
The ailment for which Coffea is often used in headache brought on by over-exertion of mind, excessive joy, contradiction, vexation, noise and music. It feels as if the brain were torn or dashed to pieces. Sometimes it is onesided, and feels like a nail driven into the brain as in Igatia, Thuja, and Nitric acid. The headache of Coffea may be either congestive or neuralgic.

Mang (Allen hand)
Mind. - Weeping mood. Ill humor; at every trifle in morning, with wrinkled forehead, even the speaking of others excited him; at 4. 30pm, and sad; afternoon, contemplative, dull, with general discomfort; about everything she thinks of; so that he was not pleased with the most joyous music; but was almost cheered by the saddest music; and discontented with himself, solicitous about the future, he talked little, thought he was weak in mind and made mistakes in speaking in every sentence. Embittered, implacable mood. Anxiety, with short breath and profuse sweat. Uneasiness as if he
apprehended something sad. Distraction. Memory weak.
4
Joy [sen] music [rem] sentimental: 3Coff.8, 2mang.214, sabin.
==============

[Steve Scrutton]

Why is this a problem that requires treatment? If music can touch the
emotions let's rejoice. And men do cry too, although culturally we think it
is less appropriate.

Steve Scrutton
Registrar, Alliance of Registered Homeopaths
Homeopathy: a safe, gentle and effective medical therapy

[john twigg]

It can be medical, Steve. I had hydrofluoric acid burns many years ago and
there are residues from this, in particular what I can only describe as an
exaggeration of my mental state. My memory/concentration problems became
much much worse - and the crying - well thats quite a story. I was watching
a programme on the telly last night (Brat Camp), about 'delinquents' who are
'brought back to earth' by experiences in the desert, in the USA. Throughout
the programme
I experienced this emotional hurt. And I do mean hurt, like grieving - the
same can happen with music - It is not crying only, it is also hurting.
Regards - John Twigg
_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

[Steve Scrutton]

In that case, it certainly needs treating!

Steve Scrutton
Registrar, Alliance of Registered Homeopaths
Homeopathy: a safe, gentle and effective medical therapy

[Joy Lucas]

As someone else said - does this need to be cured? If this is a 'might' and
not 'always' then how does this fit in with the rest of the case. Has this
person given you the idea that he wants this to be treated. To what extent
is this out of proportion with his life, after all, it isn't always an
unhealthy thing to cry like this, it depends on what else is going on with
this person.

Having said that, I think my approach would be to accept the fact that he
needs to cry in such special circumstances and try and look behind this,
find out what his thoughts are during such times, to see if it relates to
others situations in his life, try and explore why it is these sort of
circumstances that 'allow' him to cry (it is like a public acceptance) and
so what is he really crying about. Does he feel good about crying, how does
he cry (sobbing or weeping etc), does it actually help or make him feel
worse - all those sort of basic questions can be very revealing.

Without getting behind this you could be looking at a Nat mur who really
wants to cry but needs acceptance to do so, or at the opposite extreme
Hydrogen (which actually might be worth looking at - positive and negative,
sense of expansion as in the 'dragged along', dream like and confused, very
weepy and vulnerable, confusion of identity etc, they really need to cry).

Interesting that you say "unified" - that makes you think about the
phosphoric remedies, always wanting to bring things together, to scoop up
the diffusion and bring it all back together.

Interesting.

Best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 31/3/04 2:21 AM, Hennie Duits at he.duits@wxs.nl wrote:

Maybe some on the list can share some thoughts about this: This is a man who
might, though not always, weep from music that really 'takes' him (can be
Sibelius, can be Beatles, can be Puff Daddy), but tears are sure to come if,
after a concert, or a song in a concert, the public or crowd bursts out in
enthousiastic applause, whistling, etc. That's when he gets 'dragged along',
for sure: when hearing, or being part of, such enthusiasm there is no way to
stop his tears.
I feel 'weeping - sympathetic' does not quite cover this, because I think
that would be more like feeling personally someone else's grief, or sadness,
or even anger and get affected by such feelings. He, however, certainly does
not get dragged along easily by the anger or grief of others. His tears are
(almost) exclusively like 'tears from unified joy'. Any thoughts?

Hennie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Joy Lucas]

Forgot to add the really obvious - 'tears from unified joy' = ailments from
excessive joy = Pulsatilla, probably the weepiest remedy there is.

Best wishes, Joy (in excess)

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 31/3/04 2:21 AM, Hennie Duits at he.duits@wxs.nl wrote:

Maybe some on the list can share some thoughts about this: This is a man who
might, though not always, weep from music that really 'takes' him (can be
Sibelius, can be Beatles, can be Puff Daddy), but tears are sure to come if,
after a concert, or a song in a concert, the public or crowd bursts out in
enthousiastic applause, whistling, etc. That's when he gets 'dragged along',
for sure: when hearing, or being part of, such enthusiasm there is no way to
stop his tears.
I feel 'weeping - sympathetic' does not quite cover this, because I think
that would be more like feeling personally someone else's grief, or sadness,
or even anger and get affected by such feelings. He, however, certainly does
not get dragged along easily by the anger or grief of others. His tears are
(almost) exclusively like 'tears from unified joy'. Any thoughts?

Hennie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rosemary C Hyde PhD]

Another remedy we don't often think of in this framework, but that can be extremely weepy and senitmental, especially in response to music, is Thuja.

Rosemary

[Dale Moss]

Hennie,

Presumably he's in a happy mood at these concerts, so how about MIND,
cheerful # weeping. You might also consider MIND, ailments from joy.

Peace,
Dale