patient worried about remedy

[Beth Landau-Halpern]

I have recently seen a patient suffering from extreme paranoia, obsessive
compulsive habits, and panic attacks. She is especially afraid of choking or
being poisoned. She is a clear arsenicum case, but i could never tell her I
was giving her a poison. I wrote AR on her prescription packet, but she has
called asking for details of what she has been given, refusing to take the
remedy until she feel assured. Any advice on how to handle this? I feel
morally opposed to lying, but do want to help this woman. Surely others have
faced this dilemna.
Thanks
Beth

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[J.VENKATASUBRAMANIAN]

Beth,
Didn't you consider her mind ? I believe the case is not ars.
She has refused the medicine. First and foremost, to clear this mental state
, should we consider the following ?
1. Mind : : refusesing : medicine to take: 2 arn, cimic, hyos, 2 kali p, 3
lach, 2 stram, 2 verat v, visc
2. fear poisoning of:; cimic, 2 hyos,2 lach,stram,verat v( among many)
3. fear : suffocation of: lach, ( among many)

Lachesis is the common remedy. lach should clear up the case. Or should
clear the way for another.
Regards
Venkat

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Venkat,

But she hasn't refused to take it, she just wants (needs) to know what it
*is*. (Then once she finds out what it is, she may well refuse, but IMO
that would be covered by fear of being poisoned (which does include ars, as
does fear of suffocation, at least in my rep). Also, I'm thinking the same
problem would arise from asking her to take snake venom!!!

Beth, I wonder whether you could have her just sniff the remedy? She might
feel less worried about that (even crude arsenic isn't poisonous by
olfaction, so far as I know!) and I'd think it should work.

Shannon
on 2/11/04 7:33 AM, J.Venkatasubramanian at apexpreci@eth.net wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

PS, and of course make sure she understands just how dilute it is, and that
if she is getting a high or high-ish potency, there is none of the
*substance* whatever in it. Make sure she sees the remedy as a "message
*about* arsenic" (or whatever remedy you choose), not "a dose of arsenic"...

Perhaps if she understands that (a) her symptoms resemble those that can be
caused by arsenic poisoning, and (b) this "message *about*" arsenic will
help her body remember how to feel okay, maybe like a postcard from a friend
who's "been there"?

Good luck, let us know how it goes!
Shannon
on 2/9/04 7:37 PM, Beth Landau-Halpern at blh987@hotmail.com wrote:

[Patti Mount]

Thanks Shannon for your reply below... since I don't have your clinical experience level (yet!) I did not wish to
speak up... BUT my RADAR repping in both Synthesis and Complete gave me the same conclusion that you mention below
regarding Ars. AND those are MIND symptoms so I also believe that Beth has taken this patient aspect properly
(without knowing the rest of the case)... Beth might want to ask her patient to hold the remedy bottle and speak
"loving" or positive words to it and try to become in a more positive frame of mind about it NOT being a poison,
become "in tune" with it and then move to the olfaction of it... again I am looking at the mentals of the patient
and looking for a way to assist in calming her fears.

best Patti

[J.VENKATASUBRAMANIAN]

Hi Shannon,
I had another experience which prompted me to use the rubric, refusing to
take medicine.

My son, in my treatment for chronic cough, suddenly developed a cough with a
fever a week
after tub 200. He was very irritable, fretful and went to bed. The
temperature was raising
and my remedies didn't work. At about midnight , I told my anxious wife to
give the
paracetamol accepting my defeat. But he stubbornly refused it. (Though he
happily took
my homeo rx).Then it dawned on me that lach had a possibility. His cough had
a queer
quality. He always protruded his tongue while coughing and when protruded,
trembled
slightly. This was another lach characteristic.Lach 200 brought down the
fever in ten minutes
and he slept peacefuly. Next morning he was fine.

Still analysing the text for relationship between lach and tub. Anyone
experienced ?
Regards
Venkat

[Marilyn Wagner]

Beth...

In Canada, Arsenicum Album would be labeled Metallicum Album. Perhaps a way
to get around this?

Marilyn
student of homeopathy

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Venkat,

Interesting! In my house tho (smile) it's quite normal to refuse drugs but
happily take homeopathics, LOL!

Just to explore a bit: In my own experience (mostly as a patient), one to
two weeks after taking a remedy is the most likely time for throwing an
aggravation (or healing crisis?), and I was never allowed to take anything
for discomforts that arose in that time period -- unless it got *really*
severe, which happened only once, and was handled by lower potency of the
same remedy.

But I'm also familiar with others' approach, where an "indicated remedy"
might be given for any such discomforts, including aggravations and healing
crises, and those folks (Ian Watson is one, I recall) say they see only
benefit from the approach. I've continued practicing the way I was taught
(very "conservative"), but am interested in others' experience. So I'm
curious: Did you have reason to think that your son's sudden worsening
*needed* to be treated (e.g. very severe), or do you find that there isn't
any downside to re-prescribing so close to the initial (hopefully/presumably
constitutional) prescription? Because usually I would consider a fever
during that time period to be a good sign, and would be very leery of giving
another remedy then, or any medicine.

I am very curious about the different approaches people take to these
situations, and am asking *only* because I like to hear what others'
thinking and teaching has been!

Thanks!
Shannon
on 2/11/04 10:18 AM, J.Venkatasubramanian at apexpreci@eth.net wrote:

[Joy Lucas]

seeing as you ask

My own thoughts about this is that if, during the treatment of a chronic
condition, old sx return with a vengeance or an acute condition develops,
etc then, if the situation is inappropriate to the well being of the client,
i.e. they really cannot cope, then a remedy has to be given or a change in
protocol adopted - this could be using the same remedy but changing potency
etc. One of our highest ideals is to cure with as little discomfort as
possible and we have to keep that in mind. If the client is suffering but
can cope that is another matter and sometimes they just need to be able to
connect with the homeopath more often.

Best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 2/11/04 6:00 PM, Bob&Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:
edited

I am very curious about the different approaches people take to these
situations, and am asking *only* because I like to hear what others'
thinking and teaching has been!

Thanks!
Shannon
on 2/11/04 10:18 AM, J.Venkatasubramanian at apexpreci@eth.net wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Beth Landau-Halpern]

Have you had any positive experiences with remedies by olfaction? I've not
tried it. I've also heard that diluting the remedy and rubbing it on the
temples can work (especially with babies). Anyone have any input on that?
BEth

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