Dear Colleagues
With reference to Aph 185 to 203 Org 6, could colleagues explain what has
changed that we should ignore Hn's warning about treating local symptoms and
using external applications.
Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Local Symptoms & External Applications
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Soroush, sadly we are not colleagues here (in the true sense of the word),
but it does make life more interesting. You have reminded us before that if
Hahnemann were alive today the practise of Homeopathy would have been
totally different - so I am curious to know how you think he might have
approached this subject in today's terms.
Also I would really really like to know why you are asking this, what has
prompted this enquiry.
Regards, Joy
on 10/27/03 6:10 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Colleagues
With reference to Aph 185 to 203 Org 6, could colleagues explain what has
changed that we should ignore Hn's warning about treating local symptoms and
using external applications.
Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but it does make life more interesting. You have reminded us before that if
Hahnemann were alive today the practise of Homeopathy would have been
totally different - so I am curious to know how you think he might have
approached this subject in today's terms.
Also I would really really like to know why you are asking this, what has
prompted this enquiry.
Regards, Joy
on 10/27/03 6:10 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Colleagues
With reference to Aph 185 to 203 Org 6, could colleagues explain what has
changed that we should ignore Hn's warning about treating local symptoms and
using external applications.
Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Dear Joy
It seems that you missed Atiq's posting about how he was applying both
internal and external remedies at the same time.
Please see Ardavan's quote from the Organon in his post yesterday and also
to my response to Rosemary.
Hahnemann had obviously done his experiment on this issue. But applying
logic, VF brings about symptoms, some internal and some external. If the
external symptoms (caused by an internal malady) are treated by external
remedies then the symptoms may disappear. In that situation, how do we know
that the internal problem has been treated properly? How do we know it has
not been suppressed?
We need to be vigilant. Not everything posted on Minutus is correct. We owe
a duty of care to those who are new to homoeopathy (and indeed some old
hands) that if some things contrary to the teachings of Hahnemann are posted
these are high-lighted and discussed. We can then individually choose what
to do afterwards. Minutus is a Hahnemannian site and as such it needs to
stick closely to the methodology of Hahnemann unless someone can show with
good evidence that they have found a better way than Hahnemann and his
faithful followers.
Lastly, you opened your post by stating that "sadly we are not colleagues
here" - Please explain why we are not colleagues - I seem to have missed the
point.
Regards
Soroush
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:42:00 +0000
From: Joy Lucas
Subject: Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Soroush, sadly we are not colleagues here (in the true sense of the word),
but it does make life more interesting. You have reminded us before that if
Hahnemann were alive today the practise of Homeopathy would have been
totally different - so I am curious to know how you think he might have
approached this subject in today's terms.
Also I would really really like to know why you are asking this, what has
prompted this enquiry.
Regards, Joy
on 10/27/03 6:10 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Colleagues
With reference to Aph 185 to 203 Org 6, could colleagues explain what has
changed that we should ignore Hn's warning about treating local symptoms and
using external applications.
Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It seems that you missed Atiq's posting about how he was applying both
internal and external remedies at the same time.
Please see Ardavan's quote from the Organon in his post yesterday and also
to my response to Rosemary.
Hahnemann had obviously done his experiment on this issue. But applying
logic, VF brings about symptoms, some internal and some external. If the
external symptoms (caused by an internal malady) are treated by external
remedies then the symptoms may disappear. In that situation, how do we know
that the internal problem has been treated properly? How do we know it has
not been suppressed?
We need to be vigilant. Not everything posted on Minutus is correct. We owe
a duty of care to those who are new to homoeopathy (and indeed some old
hands) that if some things contrary to the teachings of Hahnemann are posted
these are high-lighted and discussed. We can then individually choose what
to do afterwards. Minutus is a Hahnemannian site and as such it needs to
stick closely to the methodology of Hahnemann unless someone can show with
good evidence that they have found a better way than Hahnemann and his
faithful followers.
Lastly, you opened your post by stating that "sadly we are not colleagues
here" - Please explain why we are not colleagues - I seem to have missed the
point.
Regards
Soroush
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:42:00 +0000
From: Joy Lucas
Subject: Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Soroush, sadly we are not colleagues here (in the true sense of the word),
but it does make life more interesting. You have reminded us before that if
Hahnemann were alive today the practise of Homeopathy would have been
totally different - so I am curious to know how you think he might have
approached this subject in today's terms.
Also I would really really like to know why you are asking this, what has
prompted this enquiry.
Regards, Joy
on 10/27/03 6:10 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Colleagues
With reference to Aph 185 to 203 Org 6, could colleagues explain what has
changed that we should ignore Hn's warning about treating local symptoms and
using external applications.
Rgds
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
You are right, I don't read all postings but I think you missed the first
part of my question also. Perhaps you will answer. We, as a group, are not
colleagues because we, as a group, are not united in everything we discuss.
As I said, I think this makes it more interesting. But what, exactly, do you
mean by external remedies. I can think of countless times when I have used
Calendula cream, mother tincture, diluted solutions, verbascum oil,
hypericum cream, plantago mother tincture and others as soothing, non
invasive agents whilst the client has been on potentized internal
homeopathic rx.
What would be your case management approach if you had a child on LM rx for
severe eczema and a bad aggravation occurred (and they do happen on LM's).
Our duty also lies with our clients.
And don't forget that suppression can take place in many ways.
Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 10/28/03 1:18 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Joy
It seems that you missed Atiq's posting about how he was applying both
internal and external remedies at the same time.
Please see Ardavan's quote from the Organon in his post yesterday and also
to my response to Rosemary.
Hahnemann had obviously done his experiment on this issue. But applying
logic, VF brings about symptoms, some internal and some external. If the
external symptoms (caused by an internal malady) are treated by external
remedies then the symptoms may disappear. In that situation, how do we know
that the internal problem has been treated properly? How do we know it has
not been suppressed?
We need to be vigilant. Not everything posted on Minutus is correct. We owe
a duty of care to those who are new to homoeopathy (and indeed some old
hands) that if some things contrary to the teachings of Hahnemann are posted
these are high-lighted and discussed. We can then individually choose what
to do afterwards. Minutus is a Hahnemannian site and as such it needs to
stick closely to the methodology of Hahnemann unless someone can show with
good evidence that they have found a better way than Hahnemann and his
faithful followers.
Lastly, you opened your post by stating that "sadly we are not colleagues
here" - Please explain why we are not colleagues - I seem to have missed the
point.
Regards
Soroush
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:42:00 +0000
From: Joy Lucas
Subject: Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Soroush, sadly we are not colleagues here (in the true sense of the word),
but it does make life more interesting. You have reminded us before that if
Hahnemann were alive today the practise of Homeopathy would have been
totally different - so I am curious to know how you think he might have
approached this subject in today's terms.
Also I would really really like to know why you are asking this, what has
prompted this enquiry.
Regards, Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
part of my question also. Perhaps you will answer. We, as a group, are not
colleagues because we, as a group, are not united in everything we discuss.
As I said, I think this makes it more interesting. But what, exactly, do you
mean by external remedies. I can think of countless times when I have used
Calendula cream, mother tincture, diluted solutions, verbascum oil,
hypericum cream, plantago mother tincture and others as soothing, non
invasive agents whilst the client has been on potentized internal
homeopathic rx.
What would be your case management approach if you had a child on LM rx for
severe eczema and a bad aggravation occurred (and they do happen on LM's).
Our duty also lies with our clients.
And don't forget that suppression can take place in many ways.
Joy
www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 10/28/03 1:18 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:
Dear Joy
It seems that you missed Atiq's posting about how he was applying both
internal and external remedies at the same time.
Please see Ardavan's quote from the Organon in his post yesterday and also
to my response to Rosemary.
Hahnemann had obviously done his experiment on this issue. But applying
logic, VF brings about symptoms, some internal and some external. If the
external symptoms (caused by an internal malady) are treated by external
remedies then the symptoms may disappear. In that situation, how do we know
that the internal problem has been treated properly? How do we know it has
not been suppressed?
We need to be vigilant. Not everything posted on Minutus is correct. We owe
a duty of care to those who are new to homoeopathy (and indeed some old
hands) that if some things contrary to the teachings of Hahnemann are posted
these are high-lighted and discussed. We can then individually choose what
to do afterwards. Minutus is a Hahnemannian site and as such it needs to
stick closely to the methodology of Hahnemann unless someone can show with
good evidence that they have found a better way than Hahnemann and his
faithful followers.
Lastly, you opened your post by stating that "sadly we are not colleagues
here" - Please explain why we are not colleagues - I seem to have missed the
point.
Regards
Soroush
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:42:00 +0000
From: Joy Lucas
Subject: Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Soroush, sadly we are not colleagues here (in the true sense of the word),
but it does make life more interesting. You have reminded us before that if
Hahnemann were alive today the practise of Homeopathy would have been
totally different - so I am curious to know how you think he might have
approached this subject in today's terms.
Also I would really really like to know why you are asking this, what has
prompted this enquiry.
Regards, Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Just to clarify.
I didn't say that Hahnemann's little squib about external and internal
applications simultaneously was in the Organon. It was in Chronic Disease.
I'm looking for my volume so I can tell the group more specifically where to
find it. It was not meant to be a topical application relative to an
eruption, but a way of increasing the impact of an internally administered
remedy diluted in water by rubbing a little on the skin at the same time, on
a place where no eruption was evident. It was a part of his discussion of
treating later stages of Psora.
Rosemary
I didn't say that Hahnemann's little squib about external and internal
applications simultaneously was in the Organon. It was in Chronic Disease.
I'm looking for my volume so I can tell the group more specifically where to
find it. It was not meant to be a topical application relative to an
eruption, but a way of increasing the impact of an internally administered
remedy diluted in water by rubbing a little on the skin at the same time, on
a place where no eruption was evident. It was a part of his discussion of
treating later stages of Psora.
Rosemary
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Dear Joy,
To be honest, I have not had a bad agg on LMs - as I give one dose and wait
a number of days before prescribing the next dose. However, if I had a
severe eczema reaction I would use something that homoeopathically inert and
of course not allopathic. Aqueous Lotion is perhaps one.
If the external symptom is caused by something external, eg a cut, then of
course you can use an external application.
When the cause is internal, under Hn's instructions, one is not permitted to
use external remedies. Eczema being an example case of this sort.
I think we are colleagues if our intension is to help each other to
understand the principle of Hahnemannian Homoeopath.
"The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy
and educational benefit of its members. "
Rgds
Soroush
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:02:49 +0000
From: Joy Lucas
Subject: Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
You are right, I don't read all postings but I think you missed the first
part of my question also. Perhaps you will answer. We, as a group, are not
colleagues because we, as a group, are not united in everything we discuss.
As I said, I think this makes it more interesting. But what, exactly, do you
mean by external remedies. I can think of countless times when I have used
Calendula cream, mother tincture, diluted solutions, verbascum oil,
hypericum cream, plantago mother tincture and others as soothing, non
invasive agents whilst the client has been on potentized internal
homeopathic rx.
What would be your case management approach if you had a child on LM rx for
severe eczema and a bad aggravation occurred (and they do happen on LM's).
Our duty also lies with our clients.
And don't forget that suppression can take place in many ways.
Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To be honest, I have not had a bad agg on LMs - as I give one dose and wait
a number of days before prescribing the next dose. However, if I had a
severe eczema reaction I would use something that homoeopathically inert and
of course not allopathic. Aqueous Lotion is perhaps one.
If the external symptom is caused by something external, eg a cut, then of
course you can use an external application.
When the cause is internal, under Hn's instructions, one is not permitted to
use external remedies. Eczema being an example case of this sort.
I think we are colleagues if our intension is to help each other to
understand the principle of Hahnemannian Homoeopath.
"The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy
and educational benefit of its members. "
Rgds
Soroush
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:02:49 +0000
From: Joy Lucas
Subject: Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
You are right, I don't read all postings but I think you missed the first
part of my question also. Perhaps you will answer. We, as a group, are not
colleagues because we, as a group, are not united in everything we discuss.
As I said, I think this makes it more interesting. But what, exactly, do you
mean by external remedies. I can think of countless times when I have used
Calendula cream, mother tincture, diluted solutions, verbascum oil,
hypericum cream, plantago mother tincture and others as soothing, non
invasive agents whilst the client has been on potentized internal
homeopathic rx.
What would be your case management approach if you had a child on LM rx for
severe eczema and a bad aggravation occurred (and they do happen on LM's).
Our duty also lies with our clients.
And don't forget that suppression can take place in many ways.
Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
I understood from Atiq's post that he was giving a potentized remedy internally and also applying the same remedy externally at the same time. It didn't sound as if he was thus treating merely a local eruption, but I may have misunderstood. In any case, what he said reminded me of this fascinating passage from "Chronic Disease". Here's the quote from "Chronic Disease," Volume 1, pages 158-159 in my copy (Reprinted 1998 B Jain Publishers). I found it fascinating, since no one had ever mentioned it -- it certainly hasn't entered into the usual and customary methods for administering homeopathic remedies. Rosemary
"In this manner the homoeopathic physician will derive all the benefit from a well selected remedy, which can be obtained in any special case of chronic disease by doses given through the mouth.
But if the diseased organism is affected by the physician through this same appropriate remedy at the same time in sensitive spots other than the nerves of the mouth and the alimentary canal, i. e. if this same remedy that has been found useful is at the same time in its watery solution rubbed in (even in small quantities) into one or more parts of the body which are most free from the morbid ailments (e. g. on an arm, or on the thigh or leg, which have neither cutaneous eruptions, nor pains, nor cramps) - then the curative effects are much in creased. The limbs which are thus rubbed with the solution may also be varied, first one, then another. Thus the physician will receive a greater action from the medicine homoeopathically suitable to the chronic patient, and can cure him more quickly, than by merely internally administering the remedy.
This mode of procedure has been frequently proved by myself and found extraordinarily curative; yea, attended by the most startling good effects; the medicine taken internally being at the same time rubbed on the skin externally. This procedure will also explain the wonderful cures, of rare occurrence indeed, where chronic crippled patients with sound skin recovered quickly and permanently by a few baths in a mineral water, the medicinal constituents of which were to a great degree homoeopathic to their chronic disease. *
The limb, therefore, on which the solution is to be rubbed in, must be free from cutaneous ailments. In order to introduce also here change and variation, when several of the limbs are free from cutaneous ailments, one limb after the other should be used, in alternation, on different days, (best on days when the medicine is not taken internally). A small quantity of the solution should be rubbed in with the hand, until the limb is dry. Also for this purpose, the bottle should be shaken five or six times."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"In this manner the homoeopathic physician will derive all the benefit from a well selected remedy, which can be obtained in any special case of chronic disease by doses given through the mouth.
But if the diseased organism is affected by the physician through this same appropriate remedy at the same time in sensitive spots other than the nerves of the mouth and the alimentary canal, i. e. if this same remedy that has been found useful is at the same time in its watery solution rubbed in (even in small quantities) into one or more parts of the body which are most free from the morbid ailments (e. g. on an arm, or on the thigh or leg, which have neither cutaneous eruptions, nor pains, nor cramps) - then the curative effects are much in creased. The limbs which are thus rubbed with the solution may also be varied, first one, then another. Thus the physician will receive a greater action from the medicine homoeopathically suitable to the chronic patient, and can cure him more quickly, than by merely internally administering the remedy.
This mode of procedure has been frequently proved by myself and found extraordinarily curative; yea, attended by the most startling good effects; the medicine taken internally being at the same time rubbed on the skin externally. This procedure will also explain the wonderful cures, of rare occurrence indeed, where chronic crippled patients with sound skin recovered quickly and permanently by a few baths in a mineral water, the medicinal constituents of which were to a great degree homoeopathic to their chronic disease. *
The limb, therefore, on which the solution is to be rubbed in, must be free from cutaneous ailments. In order to introduce also here change and variation, when several of the limbs are free from cutaneous ailments, one limb after the other should be used, in alternation, on different days, (best on days when the medicine is not taken internally). A small quantity of the solution should be rubbed in with the hand, until the limb is dry. Also for this purpose, the bottle should be shaken five or six times."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Atiq Ahmad Bhatti
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:22 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Wow, you sure read the small print!!
You should have been a lawyer Soroush - cause you just won't let it drop
for one incy minute.
Nice to know you are so passionate. Shame we are on different
wavelengths.
atiq
You should have been a lawyer Soroush - cause you just won't let it drop
for one incy minute.
Nice to know you are so passionate. Shame we are on different
wavelengths.
atiq
-
Atiq Ahmad Bhatti
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:22 pm
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
Thank you Rosemary.
And you are correct, by using a cream base the medicating potency is
essentially 'rubbed' or 'applied' externally.
And you are correct, by using a cream base the medicating potency is
essentially 'rubbed' or 'applied' externally.
Re: Local Symptoms & External Applications
One time, my youngest daughter had a wart on her hand. The repertory led me to Thuja, but for whatever reason, it didn't seem to get rid of it. I finally gave her Thuja internally, AND put Thuja ointment externally, with a Band-Aid to keep it on, and it went away completely, and never came back.
This is probably similar to what Atiq was doing.
Jennifer
Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers 3John 2
Jennifer Ruby
Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.
http://www.rubysemporium.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SymphonicHealth
http://www.LivingNow.net/rubysemporium4life/
24Hr TollFree Transfer Factor Info line 1-866-315-4002
______________________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
This is probably similar to what Atiq was doing.
Jennifer
Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers 3John 2
Jennifer Ruby
Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.
http://www.rubysemporium.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SymphonicHealth
http://www.LivingNow.net/rubysemporium4life/
24Hr TollFree Transfer Factor Info line 1-866-315-4002
______________________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯