One of the member asked a very good question in a discussion forum. Although
I have no permission from him that I can ask the same question in any other
forum but I have the right to ask the same question in other words having
the same meanings as I have no time to contact him for getting permission.
I am the permanent member of all mailing lists and discussion forums. I do
receive many mails. I have no time to respond to those mails. I have found
the solution to pass the password to my different colleagues located in
different regions to carry forward the discussions. So I may be that person
and may not be that person???
Now come to the point, this is a serious question and I want to hear the
views from serious minded enrolled members. Those who are not serious are
requested not to respond to this post.
This is scientifically approved that body has only one kind of unique
defense mechanism against the intrusion of disease and invaders of germs
etc.
Long long ago when I was studying homeopathy, our teacher told us about B
and T cells. He explained the whole procedure how does the body defense
system works. How does antibody produce? In short this defense system is a
unique of its kind. Homeopaths believe that homeopathic medicines have no
chemicals (atoms – molecules etc) and they act in the body to stimulate the
same body defense system. Which further over come the infection of the body
from invaders.
Allopaths explain the complete procedure how their medicines having
chemicals increase the body defense system. No body can deny. They also
explain the physiological changes step by step during the stimulation of
body defense system against the disease by highlighting chemical equations
as they believe that their medicines are chemical in nature.
If our body defense system has only one type which defends the body against
the disease then what is the need of so many homeopathic medicines (at least
3000 remedies) one homeopathic medicine is sufficient to stimulate the body
immune or defense system? What is the purpose of 2000 medicines with 8000
potencies? When we say there is no chemical present in our potencies.
If our ultimate goal is we will continue to potentize the medicine till we
get a potency having no atoms or molecules of the actual medicine / crude
substance then what is the need of homeopathic crude substances for making
homeopathic potencies?
If these potencies having no chemical and have nothing to do with the body
defense system then which thing you poured into the body which enhance the
body defense system and HOW does it work?
If we have no answers of these questions except to present inadequate and
useless philosophy then is it not better to accept that homeopathic
medicines are fraud and they have only placebo effects, as allopaths claim.
Bond 007
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In search of Homeopathy
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: In search of Homeopathy
Hello HB,
Thank you for the explanation! (Next question, of course, would be "why"???
Second might be, who are all these "colleagues located in different
regions", and why don't they just ask their own question... Curiouser and
curiouser...
)
on 8/31/03 8:26 AM, Homeo Bond 007 at homeobond007@hotmail.com wrote:
Yup, that's fine! I think the only problem is when you attach a person's
name to a quote or statement, and then do not quote or represent them
accurately.
I don't know what you mean by this. The body has many mechanisms to defend
itself against disease -- e.g. white blood cells (several types using
several means), antibodies, gut acidity, digestive enzymes (altho these last
two are also digestive, of course, they are most definitely part of the
defense system as well), also fever and whatever mecehanisms it releases
(sorry, memory is hazy here), interferon, and I'm sure there's more...
I think that any discussion as to how remedies work is speculative --
there's so much we don't know. My understanding, tho, is that the "energy
imprint" and/or minute physical amount of the substance draws the body's
attention (whatever that means) to "what needs to be cured" (i.e. "the
symptoms" and the vital derangement that they signify). Once the body is
"more aware" of what needs to be done, it finds its own best way to
accomplish that, using the various tools at its disposal.
Actually, when you "cure" the patient with drugs, e.g. (just one example)
poison bacteria by giving the pt antibiotics, you haven't really "increased"
the body's defense system, so much as sidestepped and partially obviated it
-- you're doing its job for it. Which can be helpful, sure, but certainly
doesn't "increase" (doesn't strengthen) the body's own innate ability, but
rather is actually found to decrease it. (E.g. various studies showing that
children whose ear infections are treated with ABs tend to have more
frequent recurrence, vs. children whose ear infections are permitted to run
the course and be healed by the body's own defenses.)
Can't deny that it "works" often, in the short-run and on specific symptoms;
but as a long-term health-builder? I think that thinking does not hold up
to scrutiny at all!!
???? I think this is not true at all. Can you give any specific examples?
Actually most of allopathy's medicines are empirical, many were discovered
accidentally or were "lifted" from other systems (herbology, homeopathy).
Ouch, there is no sense here at all.
As above, there is more than one type of defense.
There is also more than one type of disease.
There is also more than one type of "context", aka "the patient", or more
accurately, "the case".
The remedy can address all three *indirectly*, but the only one it addresses
*directly* is "the patient"; when the inner level of patient *as a whole* is
operating more harmoniously, disease is cured (well, generally speaking) and
relationship to the environment is also improved.
The remedy is chosen on the basis of *all* of these, not just some
hypothetical "defense system" which needs a certain "bolt" or "turn" of
"re-callibration". Mind/body/environment makes an enormously complex but
essentially indivisible unit.
To find their "purposes", you would need to read their materia medica, and
read up on potency issues. Have fun!
This isn't the goal, it's just part of what happens at (I think it's) around
12c. Potencies above that just get further dynamized, but the "none" part
("no physical substance") doesn't become any smaller...
Some say that remedies can be made in ways that begin from an energetic
imprint rather than from substance; others debate whether these substances
are actually homeopathic remedies, as they don't really suit the definition.
This is a whole separate discussion, tho...
We don't know how it works. Fortunately, as is true with other forces of
nature (gravity, electricity, prayer, nuclear power, etc.), we don't have
to. We only need to learn how to use them appropriately, and how to
benefit; understanding will no doubt come along at some point.
You may accept that if you like.
Those of us who regularly use the remedies *know* that this is not the case.
Suit yourself!
If one refuses to accept the evidence of one's senses (e.g. over and over
and over seeing them *work*) because that evidence doesn't suit one's
theory, I think one should better stick with religion, which is not troubled
by lack of experiential evidence. (Do you still believe in a flat Earth,
too?)
Shannon
Thank you for the explanation! (Next question, of course, would be "why"???
Second might be, who are all these "colleagues located in different
regions", and why don't they just ask their own question... Curiouser and
curiouser...
)
on 8/31/03 8:26 AM, Homeo Bond 007 at homeobond007@hotmail.com wrote:
Yup, that's fine! I think the only problem is when you attach a person's
name to a quote or statement, and then do not quote or represent them
accurately.
I don't know what you mean by this. The body has many mechanisms to defend
itself against disease -- e.g. white blood cells (several types using
several means), antibodies, gut acidity, digestive enzymes (altho these last
two are also digestive, of course, they are most definitely part of the
defense system as well), also fever and whatever mecehanisms it releases
(sorry, memory is hazy here), interferon, and I'm sure there's more...
I think that any discussion as to how remedies work is speculative --
there's so much we don't know. My understanding, tho, is that the "energy
imprint" and/or minute physical amount of the substance draws the body's
attention (whatever that means) to "what needs to be cured" (i.e. "the
symptoms" and the vital derangement that they signify). Once the body is
"more aware" of what needs to be done, it finds its own best way to
accomplish that, using the various tools at its disposal.
Actually, when you "cure" the patient with drugs, e.g. (just one example)
poison bacteria by giving the pt antibiotics, you haven't really "increased"
the body's defense system, so much as sidestepped and partially obviated it
-- you're doing its job for it. Which can be helpful, sure, but certainly
doesn't "increase" (doesn't strengthen) the body's own innate ability, but
rather is actually found to decrease it. (E.g. various studies showing that
children whose ear infections are treated with ABs tend to have more
frequent recurrence, vs. children whose ear infections are permitted to run
the course and be healed by the body's own defenses.)
Can't deny that it "works" often, in the short-run and on specific symptoms;
but as a long-term health-builder? I think that thinking does not hold up
to scrutiny at all!!
???? I think this is not true at all. Can you give any specific examples?
Actually most of allopathy's medicines are empirical, many were discovered
accidentally or were "lifted" from other systems (herbology, homeopathy).
Ouch, there is no sense here at all.
As above, there is more than one type of defense.
There is also more than one type of disease.
There is also more than one type of "context", aka "the patient", or more
accurately, "the case".
The remedy can address all three *indirectly*, but the only one it addresses
*directly* is "the patient"; when the inner level of patient *as a whole* is
operating more harmoniously, disease is cured (well, generally speaking) and
relationship to the environment is also improved.
The remedy is chosen on the basis of *all* of these, not just some
hypothetical "defense system" which needs a certain "bolt" or "turn" of
"re-callibration". Mind/body/environment makes an enormously complex but
essentially indivisible unit.
To find their "purposes", you would need to read their materia medica, and
read up on potency issues. Have fun!
This isn't the goal, it's just part of what happens at (I think it's) around
12c. Potencies above that just get further dynamized, but the "none" part
("no physical substance") doesn't become any smaller...
Some say that remedies can be made in ways that begin from an energetic
imprint rather than from substance; others debate whether these substances
are actually homeopathic remedies, as they don't really suit the definition.
This is a whole separate discussion, tho...
We don't know how it works. Fortunately, as is true with other forces of
nature (gravity, electricity, prayer, nuclear power, etc.), we don't have
to. We only need to learn how to use them appropriately, and how to
benefit; understanding will no doubt come along at some point.
You may accept that if you like.
Those of us who regularly use the remedies *know* that this is not the case.
Suit yourself!
If one refuses to accept the evidence of one's senses (e.g. over and over
and over seeing them *work*) because that evidence doesn't suit one's
theory, I think one should better stick with religion, which is not troubled
by lack of experiential evidence. (Do you still believe in a flat Earth,
too?)
Shannon
-
Feras Hakkak
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 10:00 pm
Re: In search of Homeopathy
Homeobond wrote: "What is the purpose of 2000 medicines with 8000 potencies? When we say there is no chemical present in our potencies."
My answer is: "because experience shows that we need them". Do not forget that first we experience and then make theories to explain the results. So when experience tells us that we need different remedies and potencies, no theory can say that we do not need. Please understand this.
Sincerely,
Feras Hakkak
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My answer is: "because experience shows that we need them". Do not forget that first we experience and then make theories to explain the results. So when experience tells us that we need different remedies and potencies, no theory can say that we do not need. Please understand this.
Sincerely,
Feras Hakkak
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: In search of Homeopathy
Just thinking some more about this:
on 8/31/03 8:26 AM, Homeo Bond 007 at homeobond007@hotmail.com wrote:
(snip)
(snip)
So we have someone who:
- is on "all" the lists (presumably he means all the *homeopathy-related*
lists?);
- poses questions which are always contentious in their phrasing, yet
- has no time (presumably no interest) to enter discussions about his
questions, so
- he has "cloned" himself by having "different [anonymous] colleagues
located in different regions" pick up this threads instead. (Except that,
in practice, usually *no one* responds to the responses to his questions.
He gets us engaged and/or arguing, and bows out.).
Weird...
Why don't these "colleagues" just ask their *own* questions? Is he the
"brains", or what???
Why does he ask questions if he doesn't care about the answers?
Who's paying him (and his buddies) to spend all this time trolling
homeopathy lists?
Well, I'm glad at least that he's made his identity a little bit clearer.
This removes any doubts as to whether or not his questions are sincere.
on 8/31/03 8:26 AM, Homeo Bond 007 at homeobond007@hotmail.com wrote:
(snip)
(snip)
So we have someone who:
- is on "all" the lists (presumably he means all the *homeopathy-related*
lists?);
- poses questions which are always contentious in their phrasing, yet
- has no time (presumably no interest) to enter discussions about his
questions, so
- he has "cloned" himself by having "different [anonymous] colleagues
located in different regions" pick up this threads instead. (Except that,
in practice, usually *no one* responds to the responses to his questions.
He gets us engaged and/or arguing, and bows out.).
Weird...
Why don't these "colleagues" just ask their *own* questions? Is he the
"brains", or what???
Why does he ask questions if he doesn't care about the answers?
Who's paying him (and his buddies) to spend all this time trolling
homeopathy lists?
Well, I'm glad at least that he's made his identity a little bit clearer.
This removes any doubts as to whether or not his questions are sincere.
-
Paul Booyse
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: In search of Homeopathy
person
Then accept responsibility for being involved in such discussions which are
generated if they appear with your signature. You have no time to answer
the many emails because you generate so many by cross posting on lists.
This is much like an email virus. Have the courtesy to realize that perhaps
some of us are on those lists as well, so we end up with either copies of
emaisl, or just a lot of them. And I don't get involved in email
discussions if the other person is not going to reciprocate. Just
"stimulating a discussion on the list" is not my idea of learning especially
when ..... see below:
Narrow minded concept. Disease is not just about pathogens.
blah blah blah etc etc etc ....
against
least
body
Okay, so... if we have only one type of defense system why do we get
different types of symptoms for similar illnesses?
By being more powerful than the inner disease state which has disturbed the
healthy function of the vital force. Read your Organon.
claim.
Study the philosophy (Organon) and then DO the homeopathy and see how it
works. You won't get anywhere because you only ask questions. You don't go
looking for answers.
I am expecting your reply !!!
I have deleted all the yahoo cr*p that was attached at the end of your LONG
email post.
Then accept responsibility for being involved in such discussions which are
generated if they appear with your signature. You have no time to answer
the many emails because you generate so many by cross posting on lists.
This is much like an email virus. Have the courtesy to realize that perhaps
some of us are on those lists as well, so we end up with either copies of
emaisl, or just a lot of them. And I don't get involved in email
discussions if the other person is not going to reciprocate. Just
"stimulating a discussion on the list" is not my idea of learning especially
when ..... see below:
Narrow minded concept. Disease is not just about pathogens.
blah blah blah etc etc etc ....
against
least
body
Okay, so... if we have only one type of defense system why do we get
different types of symptoms for similar illnesses?
By being more powerful than the inner disease state which has disturbed the
healthy function of the vital force. Read your Organon.
claim.
Study the philosophy (Organon) and then DO the homeopathy and see how it
works. You won't get anywhere because you only ask questions. You don't go
looking for answers.
I am expecting your reply !!!
I have deleted all the yahoo cr*p that was attached at the end of your LONG
email post.