Question re Arnica/proving

[Rochelle]

I received this today and feel sure that someone ( Dave Hartley ??) will
have
an intelligent answer to this one!!

Regards
Rochelle
www.rochellemarsden.co.uk
Subject: Question re Arnica/proving
Hi Rochelle

Could you please help me with a reply at my job with BreastHealthOnline?

It seems that some Plastic Surgeons in the USA have their patients on Arnica
30 several times a day already 2 weeks before breast surgery - and after the
surgery.

I know that taking Arnica so much before the surgery is unlikely to be
helpful for the outcome and you have made me aware of the risk of proving a
remedy.

Could you help me with a reply which makes it clear to the absolute
layperson why Arnica is not advisable days and weeks before the surgery and
at the same time doesn't scare them too much. I am concerned that if I
start talking about proving a remedy I will frighten them away from
homeopathy and of course I simply don't know enough to make a firm stand
with this.

Thanks.

Kindest regards
Barbara
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[Dave Hartley]

Hi Barbara,

Probably the most important thing to get across is that there is no benefit
to giving Arnica prior to the time when it might actually be useful.

I would explain that pragmatically, this would be more likely to decrease
rather than insure the hoped-for benefit of Arnica, which should be given
homeopathically (meaning: when indicated by SYMPTOMS) - there is no
biochemical action where there will be the kind of benefit that a surgeon is
used to in medication, where it might be good to slowly build-up the
chemical in the bloodstream.

Arnica is one remedy that could be strongly indicated for post surgical
trauma IF the trauma matches the Arnica picture (mainly bruising & general
trauma for these purposes)
There are a number of other remedies that could be useful, depending on
individual's symptoms.

Proving the remedy is possible; you know how to describe the situation: it
is when a remedy is given UNhomeopathically (no indications by symtoms of
need for the remedy) and a person who has some sensitivity begins to
actually suffer symptoms caused by the remedy. (remedy should be stopped
immediately)

I would focus more on explaining that (as your surgeons should realize)
homeopathic remedies are strictly non-chemical, non-biochemical.

Since the action of a well-indicated homeopathic remedy in a severe-trauma
like surgery (or in many other "first-aid" emergencies) is often
instantaneous; there is no "upside" to giving the remedy in advance; only
some possible "downside" -the real possibility that the remedy would not
work as well, due to the client having become inured to the energy of the
medicine; or the less likely possibility that "proving" (remedy symptoms
actually created by giving unhomeopathic remedy) could occur.

We have also some anectdotal information that Arnica may interfere with
anaesthesia.

It is wonderful that these surgeons are showing interest! Perhaps you could
find a way to connect them with a local homeopath, who might hopefully be
willing to explore a mutually beneficial relationship. I certainly would
be happy to network with any medical professionals in my area!
Dave Hartley
www.localcomputermart.com/dave
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Barbara,

You might add this suggestion for Arnica post-surgically (which has
worked great for me, anyway): On first waking after surgery, the person
will presumably still be well under the influence of painkillers given
for the surgery. This (or one could wait for discomfort to begin, I
suppose) is plenty of time to pop a nice, "businesslike" potency -- for
surgery, I would definitely vote for 200 or 1M, for most people. This
should last for many hours, and when it (the Arnica, I mean) does begin
to wear off, you'll feel a slight (at first) discomfort, which will be a
good indicator that it's time to re-dose. The next dose will kick in
within some five minutes at most, and discomfort will have been
negligible by that time.

I used this approach twice, and it worked fabulously. I never needed
the painkillers that were prescribed me. In each case I think I used
only a few doses total, over a number of days, of 200 or 1M. (I'd asked
beforehand whether the hospital would object to my using it. The nurse
went away to check, and said that the hospital had adopted the position
that, since homeopathic medicines have "nothing in them", there is no
medical reason to object to the patient using them. Then with
some embarrassment me explained that this was simply a way for the
hospital to let the pt do what they wanted to, without having to appear
to endorse or recommend it -- good enough for me!!!!)

Shannon

Dave Hartley wrote:

[Peter Quenter]

...and to keep in mind those cases where the person took
Arnika in advance and ended up having unusually profuse
bleeding *during* the OP -
( three clients' story, and add myself, in my early
enthusiastic-I'll-try-them-all days ... makes four
anectdotal cases on my list - I know some others on
lyghtforce a while back spoke of the occasional similar
stories - )

and those who took Hypericum and/or Arnika in advance of
dental work and ended up having *more* pain than previously
experienced, or those where the dental anaesthetic seemed to
not work well and the person needed several injections and
large doses of it before any numbness ensued ... another
two clients on my list )

best
peter q

[talkforum]

While I always teach to not give pre-op homeopathy and not to give routine
post - op, rather wait and see what is needed, I hear many anecdotes of
pre-op helping a lot.
How many of you have heard of people taking one or 2 doses pre-op with
significant help? How many have personally seen problems from pre oping?
Christina Chambreau
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Christina,

I've always had a hard time understanding the reason for pre-op doses,
*unless* there is a pre-op problem. E.g. if there's anxiety or other
problem already ongoing, then sure, treat away. But how have you heard that
a pre-op dose helps with effects of the op itself, I'm curious? I mean, how
would it help more than e.g. taking your Arnica before the painkillers
already given have worn off? (I read somewhere of someone who used
hypericum for operations *instead* of anaesthetic, but wow, I wouldn't be
the one to test that one out. Anyone remember who might have written this,
and whether it's actually (gulp) true?)
Shannon

on 8/1/02 9:54 AM, talkforum@aol.com at talkforum@aol.com wrote: