Does anyone have stories of which remedies their narcissistic patients
have responded to?
We often think of Platina but Pulsatilla frequently crops up in my clinic.
Kind regards,
Fran.
Treating Narcissism
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healthinfo6
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
During initial case taking, What criteria does a homeopath who may have no background in psychology use to determine narcissism?
There are specific DSM-V guidelines used by psychologists, psychiatrists to determine Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
One must have 5 out of 9 to qualify, would these be revealed during a 1st meeting?
A grandiose sense of self-importance
*
A preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
*
A belief that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions
*
A need for excessive admiration
*
A sense of entitlement
*
Interpersonally exploitive behavior
*
A lack of empathy
*
Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her
*
A demonstration of arrogant and haughty behaviors or attitudes
Susan
There are specific DSM-V guidelines used by psychologists, psychiatrists to determine Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
One must have 5 out of 9 to qualify, would these be revealed during a 1st meeting?
A grandiose sense of self-importance
*
A preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
*
A belief that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions
*
A need for excessive admiration
*
A sense of entitlement
*
Interpersonally exploitive behavior
*
A lack of empathy
*
Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her
*
A demonstration of arrogant and haughty behaviors or attitudes
Susan
-
John R. Benneth
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
That's really a good question, Fran. Narcissism has got to be one of the hardest conditions to treat, if not impossible. And I question whether there is a comparison or a equivalence between psychology, as seen through the DSM, and homeopathic psychiatry. It's almost as if they're treating two different things. The DSM is more about being judgemental about human behavior, whereas homeopathic psychiatry is more about correcting delusions, and narcissism is not necessarily a delusion. Narcissism is a state of overconfidence that enjoys cultural support. In other words, people in just about any society, communist or capitalist, will love a narcissist. I was romantically pursued once by a woman who had been clinically diagnosed as a narcissist. I had her pegged as a Platina. But the problem was at the time I didn't understand the posology well enough to do much about it except give her a liquid dose at 30c. I don't think it did any good. And I have to confess, I found myself admiring her. She didn't seem to give a damn about what people thought about her. I had another case where the remedy turned out to be put Tina, and the behavior seems like that of a narcissist. What the clinical diagnosis of narcissism is not what led to the remedy that there was no clinical diagnosis of narcissism. But that wasn't the complaint. The complaints were physical problems. I think you will find that the complaints of narcissism are not from the patient, but rather from the people around the patient . I think you will find that the narcissist does not see anything wrong with his or her behavior. You practically have to chase them down the street with the remedy and shoot it down their throats with a BB gun.
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
I'd consider these:
MIND - HAUGHTY
MIND - EGOTISM
MIND - SELF-INDULGENT
MIND - SELF-SATISFIED
MIND - SELFISHNESS
Platina lacks the self-indulgent and self-satisfied pathology in its picture, it has only plain haughty egotism, wich does not go nearly far enough for narcissism IMO.
The above rubrics point to Positronium by the way.
It also has these some of which may be interesting:
MIND - ABSENTMINDED - dreamy
MIND - ACTIVITY - restless
MIND - BEAUTIFUL things - yearning for
MIND - CONFUSION of mind - identity, as to his - boundaries; and personal
MIND - DANGER - lack of reaction to danger
MIND - DELUSIONS - blessed state; she is in a
MIND - FANCIES - absorbed in
MIND - INDIFFERENCE - joy of others; to
Not a match.
Subtle differences
- Plat is immune to the good or bad opinions of others about what they temselves think is important for themslevs
but they care deeply about other people and will respect what others find important for themseves.
Narcissists do not care about other people, they are too self absorbed.
So it needs a self absorbed remedy (which plat lacks in its picture).
To me positronium looks good for this.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
MIND - HAUGHTY
MIND - EGOTISM
MIND - SELF-INDULGENT
MIND - SELF-SATISFIED
MIND - SELFISHNESS
Platina lacks the self-indulgent and self-satisfied pathology in its picture, it has only plain haughty egotism, wich does not go nearly far enough for narcissism IMO.
The above rubrics point to Positronium by the way.
It also has these some of which may be interesting:
MIND - ABSENTMINDED - dreamy
MIND - ACTIVITY - restless
MIND - BEAUTIFUL things - yearning for
MIND - CONFUSION of mind - identity, as to his - boundaries; and personal
MIND - DANGER - lack of reaction to danger
MIND - DELUSIONS - blessed state; she is in a
MIND - FANCIES - absorbed in
MIND - INDIFFERENCE - joy of others; to
Not a match.
Subtle differences
- Plat is immune to the good or bad opinions of others about what they temselves think is important for themslevs
but they care deeply about other people and will respect what others find important for themseves.
Narcissists do not care about other people, they are too self absorbed.
So it needs a self absorbed remedy (which plat lacks in its picture).
To me positronium looks good for this.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
John,
I agree with you to some degree. I find Narcissism to reflect an insanely high degree of entitlement. The current younger generations, being called the Selfies,
are characterized by this state of being. They are being socialized to think of themselves as the center and only important thing in life. There perspective reigns
and they cannot be told anything that contradicts what they think. However, I often find narcissists to go into rage, or threaten it, when they are confronted with
contradictions. The sense of conscience is limited because of their self-centeredness. So therein lies the pathology I think as people who are just egotistical do
not necessarily go into rage when they are out of control or contradicted. I just left a situation with a woman like this. Her reality was the only one allowed and
no amount of alternative fact was accepted. When I tried to ask her to consider another perspective she flatly and hostily said NO! She said she was fixed and rigid
and that was that. Her mother told me about a week ago that she had spoiled her only daughter, so that social boundaries that may hold some narcissisists under
control, were not part of her make up at all. You could also say she suffered from a severe state of Cognitive Dissonance as any alternative information would
result in screaming, accusations, polite name calling (like calling me a liar or accusing me of making things up). Obviously these people are very big controllers,
paying a great deal of attention to detail so they would not lose control. So this is another aspect to the pathology. So there are some characteristics that can be
used in unraveling the case.
And yes, getting them to take a remedy is difficult as they are committed to their personality regardless of how others feel.
Her behavior was very similar to my daughter and a couple of friends who are no longer.
t
I agree with you to some degree. I find Narcissism to reflect an insanely high degree of entitlement. The current younger generations, being called the Selfies,
are characterized by this state of being. They are being socialized to think of themselves as the center and only important thing in life. There perspective reigns
and they cannot be told anything that contradicts what they think. However, I often find narcissists to go into rage, or threaten it, when they are confronted with
contradictions. The sense of conscience is limited because of their self-centeredness. So therein lies the pathology I think as people who are just egotistical do
not necessarily go into rage when they are out of control or contradicted. I just left a situation with a woman like this. Her reality was the only one allowed and
no amount of alternative fact was accepted. When I tried to ask her to consider another perspective she flatly and hostily said NO! She said she was fixed and rigid
and that was that. Her mother told me about a week ago that she had spoiled her only daughter, so that social boundaries that may hold some narcissisists under
control, were not part of her make up at all. You could also say she suffered from a severe state of Cognitive Dissonance as any alternative information would
result in screaming, accusations, polite name calling (like calling me a liar or accusing me of making things up). Obviously these people are very big controllers,
paying a great deal of attention to detail so they would not lose control. So this is another aspect to the pathology. So there are some characteristics that can be
used in unraveling the case.
And yes, getting them to take a remedy is difficult as they are committed to their personality regardless of how others feel.
Her behavior was very similar to my daughter and a couple of friends who are no longer.
t
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Fran Sheffield au
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
Gosh John!
You nailed it with your last three sentences – narcissists don't have a problem with their behaviour, we do. And they do make themselves very attractive.
In thinking about Pulsatilla, I am referring to narcissitic symptoms rather than a strick diagnostic classification - which is not appropriate for Puls as that state has an underpinning lack of confidence or anxiety not seen in the true narcissist.
Pulsatillas can be incredibly vain and I think they should be rated more highly for that rubric in our repertories. They usually dress well, love looking in the mirror, and Pulsatill women are real "girly girls".
I see this vanity men for whom we often don't think of Pulsatilla. A Pulsatilla male is also vain but often it presents as body building or working out at the gym and then preening about their appearance. They are usually well-dressed and fashionable and of course usually display and appreciate more affection than the average fella (though some have learnt to hide this in some contexts).
This vanity is all about drawing attention to themselves - and if they are deprived of this attention they fall into a heap or become drama queens.
(Sorry to anyone who has needed Puls - they are usually very appealing people - I'm just talking about a 'state').
You nailed it with your last three sentences – narcissists don't have a problem with their behaviour, we do. And they do make themselves very attractive.
In thinking about Pulsatilla, I am referring to narcissitic symptoms rather than a strick diagnostic classification - which is not appropriate for Puls as that state has an underpinning lack of confidence or anxiety not seen in the true narcissist.
Pulsatillas can be incredibly vain and I think they should be rated more highly for that rubric in our repertories. They usually dress well, love looking in the mirror, and Pulsatill women are real "girly girls".
I see this vanity men for whom we often don't think of Pulsatilla. A Pulsatilla male is also vain but often it presents as body building or working out at the gym and then preening about their appearance. They are usually well-dressed and fashionable and of course usually display and appreciate more affection than the average fella (though some have learnt to hide this in some contexts).
This vanity is all about drawing attention to themselves - and if they are deprived of this attention they fall into a heap or become drama queens.
(Sorry to anyone who has needed Puls - they are usually very appealing people - I'm just talking about a 'state').
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
Fran wrote...
Dear Fran and all,
Regarding Pulsatilla,
I do think Puls types are very careful and fussy about their appearance. Puls cats are the same, they do not want so much as a single hair out of place. No ned to groom a show cat Puls before a show for example, they already did it.
But.... why do you call this vain?
Vanity has to do with being cocky, egotistical, haughty, arrogant, boastful, conceited, ostentatious etc.
That is not the same as caring how well put together one looks.
Puls has a set of "rules" they live by with neat appearance a very important one.
They will try to encourage those "high standard of behavior" rules in others if they are in a position to do so, eg manager, mother etc.
For example a Puls cat who is a topcat, and who knows it is a house rule to use a scratching post, will encourage other cats in the hierarchy to use the scratching post as well, even going so far as to knock them off balance and tell them verbally not to do it, if they are using the furniture instead.
But as with other Puls behavior, it is not due to vanity, but due to a set of principles, a standard of behavior, that matters to them.
So I disagree that vanity is any kind of key behavior relevant to Puls. They do not behave out of vanity but out of a sense of what constitutes good quality behavior. Those are very different concepts.
It is not about drawing attention to themselves but about what they consider to be appropriate and correct. Drawing attention is NOT a Puls thing.
Again the cats show the same features:
A show cat or dog who wanted to draw attention to themsleves would preen on a show, but they do not. Instead, if the show hall smells wrong to them, they will flatly refuse to even enter it - they would not lower themseves to go into a stinky room. But it is not vanity or trying to draw attention. As usual it is THEIR standard of behavior that needs to be met to make them happy, nothing to do with drawing attention.....
Try a Sulf cat though - THEY will draw attention to themsleves, and they make fantastic show cats .....IF you can ever get them groomed enough to put on show! They are opposite of Puls in the self-grooming and vanity area. They ARE vain unlike Puls.
A puls cat with a Sulf kitten is amusing to watch, and it demonstrates another Puls special featiure: She will try to teach him how to groom and will forever demontrate how it is done, never running out of patience (an amazing feature of Puls is their patience) , but never quite getting him to do it himself.
To get a Sulf kitten to groom takes a Lach mother. She takes no nonsense, and is the trtue career mom type. Very efficient in her methods:
IF the sulf kitten gets so much as a speck of cobweb on one hair, she will give him a FULL bath! That will be repeated the next time he is caught wth even a speck of dust somewhere,. etc and in a very short time, he will start to groom just to avoid having to spend all day being washed ignominiously and thoroughly by his mom, while the other kittens play.
This only lasts as long as the Lach cat is around, however, to give him a look. Once she is no longer in the group he will get sloppy again.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Dear Fran and all,
Regarding Pulsatilla,
I do think Puls types are very careful and fussy about their appearance. Puls cats are the same, they do not want so much as a single hair out of place. No ned to groom a show cat Puls before a show for example, they already did it.
But.... why do you call this vain?
Vanity has to do with being cocky, egotistical, haughty, arrogant, boastful, conceited, ostentatious etc.
That is not the same as caring how well put together one looks.
Puls has a set of "rules" they live by with neat appearance a very important one.
They will try to encourage those "high standard of behavior" rules in others if they are in a position to do so, eg manager, mother etc.
For example a Puls cat who is a topcat, and who knows it is a house rule to use a scratching post, will encourage other cats in the hierarchy to use the scratching post as well, even going so far as to knock them off balance and tell them verbally not to do it, if they are using the furniture instead.
But as with other Puls behavior, it is not due to vanity, but due to a set of principles, a standard of behavior, that matters to them.
So I disagree that vanity is any kind of key behavior relevant to Puls. They do not behave out of vanity but out of a sense of what constitutes good quality behavior. Those are very different concepts.
It is not about drawing attention to themselves but about what they consider to be appropriate and correct. Drawing attention is NOT a Puls thing.
Again the cats show the same features:
A show cat or dog who wanted to draw attention to themsleves would preen on a show, but they do not. Instead, if the show hall smells wrong to them, they will flatly refuse to even enter it - they would not lower themseves to go into a stinky room. But it is not vanity or trying to draw attention. As usual it is THEIR standard of behavior that needs to be met to make them happy, nothing to do with drawing attention.....
Try a Sulf cat though - THEY will draw attention to themsleves, and they make fantastic show cats .....IF you can ever get them groomed enough to put on show! They are opposite of Puls in the self-grooming and vanity area. They ARE vain unlike Puls.
A puls cat with a Sulf kitten is amusing to watch, and it demonstrates another Puls special featiure: She will try to teach him how to groom and will forever demontrate how it is done, never running out of patience (an amazing feature of Puls is their patience) , but never quite getting him to do it himself.
To get a Sulf kitten to groom takes a Lach mother. She takes no nonsense, and is the trtue career mom type. Very efficient in her methods:
IF the sulf kitten gets so much as a speck of cobweb on one hair, she will give him a FULL bath! That will be repeated the next time he is caught wth even a speck of dust somewhere,. etc and in a very short time, he will start to groom just to avoid having to spend all day being washed ignominiously and thoroughly by his mom, while the other kittens play.
This only lasts as long as the Lach cat is around, however, to give him a look. Once she is no longer in the group he will get sloppy again.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Fran Sheffield
- Posts: 676
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
Hi Irene,
As mentioned in my email, I am speaking from the language of the repertory with the rubric, vanity. Even today, definitions of vanity include being overly interested in one's personal appearance ... and this is what I see in the Pulsatilla state.
Those in a Pulsatilla state whom I have come across do tend to be orderly and organised - they are great sorters and classifiers (if anyone ever needs their office or filing sorted) but perhaps your definition of vanity is too narrow meaning that a key symptom will be missed - that of having to make themselves attractive (not just tidy or functional) and of frequently checking their appearance to ensure they are so?
Gosh. Animals and human treatment are meant to rest on similar symptoms but perhaps it is very different with cats? Have you ever met a child in a Pulsatilla state? They are initially shy on meeting new people but cannot stand being ignored for long. In clinic, for example, soon they will be coming up and standing shyly beside you, or interrupting the conversation by moving things on the table or asking the parent for something ... and ALWAYS in an appealing, coy, and cute way. If they continue to be ignored, they no longer interrupt but deliberately disrupt - and sometimes with whatever it takes. But when they are in the full glare of attention they suddenly become very shy and coy again. Remove the attention and the whole cycle repeats.
Pulsatilla teens, if deprived of attention, become hugely manipulative (check the MM and rep for this symptom) and real drama queens (as can adults) ... but only in familiar situations where they don't feel shy. Why do you think Puls rates so strongly for jealousy? They have a lot of trouble sharing attention with others. Rather than wanting praise and adulation, though, they want people to fuss and care for them so they can be dependent on them, especially emotionally.
It's easy to feel very sympathetic (empathetic) toward Pulsatilla types as they have mastered the art of making themselves appealing (the coyness, vulnerability, softness, tearful eyes, full lips and flushed colour don't hurt - makes them very attractive and you are drawn to comfort them and they respond by making you feel as though you are a wonderful person) and most of us rush in immediately to help. It often takes a little while to see the Pulsatilla state in relationships and its often not until we have had to repeatedly give support, comfort, suggestions and attention do we realise that all is not as it appears. Pulsatilla states are constantly needing support and attention for situations that others just get up and on with. I am very envious of Pulsatillas - they usually have a very easy ride through life as people are always rushing in to help - and they don't mind this one little bit.
Some of my thoughts on Pulsatilla, Fran.
As mentioned in my email, I am speaking from the language of the repertory with the rubric, vanity. Even today, definitions of vanity include being overly interested in one's personal appearance ... and this is what I see in the Pulsatilla state.
Those in a Pulsatilla state whom I have come across do tend to be orderly and organised - they are great sorters and classifiers (if anyone ever needs their office or filing sorted) but perhaps your definition of vanity is too narrow meaning that a key symptom will be missed - that of having to make themselves attractive (not just tidy or functional) and of frequently checking their appearance to ensure they are so?
Gosh. Animals and human treatment are meant to rest on similar symptoms but perhaps it is very different with cats? Have you ever met a child in a Pulsatilla state? They are initially shy on meeting new people but cannot stand being ignored for long. In clinic, for example, soon they will be coming up and standing shyly beside you, or interrupting the conversation by moving things on the table or asking the parent for something ... and ALWAYS in an appealing, coy, and cute way. If they continue to be ignored, they no longer interrupt but deliberately disrupt - and sometimes with whatever it takes. But when they are in the full glare of attention they suddenly become very shy and coy again. Remove the attention and the whole cycle repeats.
Pulsatilla teens, if deprived of attention, become hugely manipulative (check the MM and rep for this symptom) and real drama queens (as can adults) ... but only in familiar situations where they don't feel shy. Why do you think Puls rates so strongly for jealousy? They have a lot of trouble sharing attention with others. Rather than wanting praise and adulation, though, they want people to fuss and care for them so they can be dependent on them, especially emotionally.
It's easy to feel very sympathetic (empathetic) toward Pulsatilla types as they have mastered the art of making themselves appealing (the coyness, vulnerability, softness, tearful eyes, full lips and flushed colour don't hurt - makes them very attractive and you are drawn to comfort them and they respond by making you feel as though you are a wonderful person) and most of us rush in immediately to help. It often takes a little while to see the Pulsatilla state in relationships and its often not until we have had to repeatedly give support, comfort, suggestions and attention do we realise that all is not as it appears. Pulsatilla states are constantly needing support and attention for situations that others just get up and on with. I am very envious of Pulsatillas - they usually have a very easy ride through life as people are always rushing in to help - and they don't mind this one little bit.
Some of my thoughts on Pulsatilla, Fran.
-
Lynn Cremona
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
Interesting article on narcissism
http://www.alternet.org/print/personal- ... understand
What Is It About Narcissism That Almost Everyone Doesn't Understand?
Best,
Lynn
--
Imagine Peace
http://www.homeopathicsolutions.blogspot.com/
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http://www.alternet.org/print/personal- ... understand
What Is It About Narcissism That Almost Everyone Doesn't Understand?
Best,
Lynn
--
Imagine Peace
http://www.homeopathicsolutions.blogspot.com/
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healthinfo6
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 pm
Re: Treating Narcissism
I found this interesting.
http://www.oxfordastrologer.com/2014/07 ... issus.html
Susan
Sent from my iPad
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http://www.oxfordastrologer.com/2014/07 ... issus.html
Susan
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