Veterinary problem with cow

[Tanya Marquette]

I have rec’d request for help on a cow that is down (owner’s word)
I know nothing about cows so feel intimidated on finding a remedy for her.
Here is the online conversation that I just had with her. Any help will be appreciated”

Tell me about the cow. I know it is a female, 15 yrs old. She is a leader of the herd?
yes

Tell me anything you can about the problem.
Unable to move or control back leg. It is stiff and sticks out to the side.

Is the problem on one side only?
Both sides? Both now.
Does it hurt when it is touched?
No or at reast she acts like there is little feeling.
Where exactly on the animal is the pain?
Does not seem to be.
Is she doing other cow things--like eating and evacuating normally or not?
Yes
If Not what is different?

Any small details that I may not know to ask; anything unusual or even just different for this particular cow?
There is a bump about 6"-8" below her shoulders on her spine.
The knee of the left leg does not or cannot bend. She has been down a week now.
Every day lessens her chances as standing is important to their digestion and the enternal organs working.
What is her personality like?
Gentle, caring, great mother.

What is characteristic about this cow?
Herd leader. Protective of calves.

The woman has limited finances (don’t we all) but is open to trying homeopathy of which she is generally ignorant.
So thought people on this list might like the challenge to help here, or maybe would know of someone who could
work with her long distance by phone. She lives in the USA on the west coast.
tanya

[Irene de Villiers]

Are they experieinced with cows?
Usually if so they will know generally the likely cause of being down.

Serious issues that are easy to happen in cows, forcing them dowm, are things like displaced abomasum (third stomach).
It happens mosly in spring as they eat too much fresh grass, get too much gas, and that displaces the stomach, to the wrong place. It can be displaced left ot right around other organs.
I am suspicious here becasue of this phrase:

That may be the displaced abomasum full of gas floating up there where it does not belong.
Usually you need a vet to diagnose and also to decide if it is displaced right or left.
(One is harder to fix)
possibly due to an abomasum displacement..... assuming no injuries seen/felt
Wow that is much too long.
Should have had a vet IMO

LYC can be first aid for abomasum displacement but I'd suggest a vet DX first. It's not worth losing the cow.

Namaste,
Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Tanya Marquette]

She did have a vet who did some prodding/pushing.
Sounds like they were trying to make a physical adjustment.
The gave a Vit B shot
and something???? else. She didn't know.

This woman strikes me as strange. She is a small beef farmer with
a herd of about 20 animals. This particular cow has been like a pet,
and as she describes, very motherly to the other cows/calves.

But she seems unable to provide information in a more dynamic way.
Maybe it is just her writing skills.

t

[Irene de Villiers]

OF what and why?
I'll say but I feel for the cow. People with cows should have what it takes to look after them.
One does not leave a pet cow down for a week. Being down is not okay for a cow. Something is not making sense. When did the vet visit, what was prodded and why, and what does the written vet record say, and how is the cow not starving and still alive after being down an entire week? It's cruel.

There's nothing you can do without knowing whatr's wrong. It can be a dozen things at least, and that's just from my offhand bit of knowledge. The longer the cow is down, regardless what is wrong, the worse the nerve damage will be to the legs, especially if it is down in frog position. It could be feverish, could be poisoned by something it ate (several kinds of plant poisons affect heart or lung or brain or paralyse legs in cattle) , hip dislocation, abomasum displacement, foot injury, nerve injury (eg inner legs after calving) , could be be postpartum issues with uterus, or udder issues, blood parasites, feed problems, water source issues, malnutrition issue, pregnancy issue, infection or parasites in blood, mineral deficienecy and the list goes on.
ALL these can put a cow down.

The point is - you can not guess what is wrong and if she is relying on you to help when you can not, that is wrong.

You can not help "cow is down" as that is not the issue. WHY it is down is the issue.
Whatever it is I'd urge her to get a written vet diagnosis asap.

Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Shannon Nelson]

I emphatically agree -- have to have diagnosis from the vet, or at least an "I don't know", and list of possibilities.

It could also be useful to know what the cow's behavior is, everything that's different from her normal *behavior*, not just the physical changes. This would be not primarily for purposes of choosing a remedy, because can't choose remedy without some clue of what has happened, but it could give further information about what's going on.

The idea of poisoning is one to look carefully for -- any chance she got into a shed and ate weedkiller or something?

Shannon

[Tanya Marquette]

I know. I did send the answers to my questions about changed behaviors.
She is still eating and evacuating as normal and her personality has not changed.
She just cannot get up. The physicals seem to be the only thing I can get out of her
at the moment.
t
From: Shannon Nelson
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 8:28 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Veterinary problem with cow

I emphatically agree -- have to have diagnosis from the vet, or at least an "I don't know", and list of possibilities.
It could also be useful to know what the cow's behavior is, everything that's different from her normal *behavior*, not just the physical changes. This would be not primarily for purposes of choosing a remedy, because can't choose remedy without some clue of what has happened, but it could give further information about what's going on.
The idea of poisoning is one to look carefully for -- any chance she got into a shed and ate weedkiller or something?
Shannon

[Irene de Villiers]

If the cow has really been down as long as a week as claimed, the chances of saving it are close to nil:-(
Cows are too heavy to stay down, the weight prevents the muscles underneath the cow from getting blood, the nerves die, the muscles are badly damaged, and all is lost.
It can help if the cow is a lighter one and gets turned to different positions regularly, but a down cow who cannot get up - and is not just having a short rest - is an emergency.
Having the cow lifted in a sling till it can stand on its own is the proper action. But not too many small herd farmers are set up with some sort of trailer contraption to do that. A vet may have one, or one can rig a tripod of long logs over the cow with a block and tackle and a suitable sling, and hoist her up. ANd get the vet to diagnose.
Leaving a cow down for several days is a nonviable option. Any cow farmer will (should?) know that.
(Sometimes I wonder on this list what people will "farm" with zero knowledge at the expense of the animal's welfare).
Indeed.
Possible. More common in Spring (assuming this is Northern hemisphere cow farming) is toxic weeds, there are several that will put a cow down.

But speed is of the essence here.
.....Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Shannon Nelson]

Well, the bump on the spine maybe worth looking more at? If it's a tumor pressing on the spine, maybe that could be the cause?

But it also reminds me of our goat who ate thistles that had been recently sprayed. I have forgotten some of the details, but he got to where he was just fine, except he couldn't get up. He could get upright except not on his feet, was happy, friendly, good appetite if fed by hand and given water by syringe, but he could not get up. It may have gone on for a week, then the vet thought maybe a shot of B vitamins would help his recovery (which seemed to have plateaued), and he died that night from -- I figured out only much later -- anaphylactic reaction to the shot. So I don't know whether he could/would have recovered or not, but before the shot he seemed stable and happy, perky, always happy for company, and pretty unconcerned about not being able to walk.

Shannon

[Tanya Marquette]

She is in California where they have warmer weather more than the NE or NW
but there is a period where she gives some supplemental food.
I raised the issue of GE grains and she said she would look into it. Did not
seem to have any knowledge of this as a possible poison for the cow, especially
given its age.
How long can cows live?
t
From: Irene de Villiers
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 8:48 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Veterinary problem with cow
If the cow has really been down as long as a week as claimed, the chances of saving it are close to nil:-(
Cows are too heavy to stay down, the weight prevents the muscles underneath the cow from getting blood, the nerves die, the muscles are badly damaged, and all is lost.
It can help if the cow is a lighter one and gets turned to different positions regularly, but a down cow who cannot get up - and is not just having a short rest - is an emergency.
Having the cow lifted in a sling till it can stand on its own is the proper action. But not too many small herd farmers are set up with some sort of trailer contraption to do that. A vet may have one, or one can rig a tripod of long logs over the cow with a block and tackle and a suitable sling, and hoist her up. ANd get the vet to diagnose.
Leaving a cow down for several days is a nonviable option. Any cow farmer will (should?) know that.
(Sometimes I wonder on this list what people will "farm" with zero knowledge at the expense of the animal's welfare).
Indeed.
Possible. More common in Spring (assuming this is Northern hemisphere cow farming) is toxic weeds, there are several that will put a cow down.

But speed is of the essence here.
.....Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Tanya Marquette]

What a sad story.
I may be overly reacting, but when I see these things and know the owner
is feeding some kind of commercial feed, GMO damage comes to mind.
I do hope she has taken me seriously and is making a couple of phone calls.
Any time a distributor cannot claim GMO free, it has to be assumed the grains
are GE. Corn, Soy, Canola, Sugar Beets, and now Alfalfa –the main animal feeds
are all GE.
In 2004? 05? Monsanto predicted total world control of all major foods within 5 yrs!
The push back has been phenomenal and they have not made their goal. Further, 60
countries have outright bans, to limits placed on GMO foodstuff. But the US is as
obstructionist as it gets when it comes to public and environmental health and safety.
t
From: Shannon Nelson
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 9:19 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Veterinary problem with cow

Well, the bump on the spine maybe worth looking more at? If it's a tumor pressing on the spine, maybe that could be the cause?
But it also reminds me of our goat who ate thistles that had been recently sprayed. I have forgotten some of the details, but he got to where he was just fine, except he couldn't get up. He could get upright except not on his feet, was happy, friendly, good appetite if fed by hand and given water by syringe, but he could not get up. It may have gone on for a week, then the vet thought maybe a shot of B vitamins would help his recovery (which seemed to have plateaued), and he died that night from -- I figured out only much later -- anaphylactic reaction to the shot. So I don't know whether he could/would have recovered or not, but before the shot he seemed stable and happy, perky, always happy for company, and pretty unconcerned about not being able to walk.
Shannon