coffee cruda and coffee tosta

[Carol Orr]

What is the difference between these two remedies? Is all regular coffee
roasted as when you go to starbucks or buy in store? If so, where would we
come across coffea cruda in its ..uh, "crude" form? When it says coffea as an
antidote, is it referring to either one of these in remedy form or from just
drinking coffee. How is coffee now different from coffee 100 years ago?

[Joy Lucas]

Coffea begins life as a plant (rubiacie family) and in Coffea cruda
the raw berries are used.

Rx can be antidoted when the client is a coffee drinker but for many
it has no reaction at all - you'll come across mixed feelings about
this. Coffea in potency can antidote a number of remedies - you would
need to check the MM for which they are. Reading the difference
between the 2 rx in any good materia medica should suffice.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Carol,

Here's what Phatak says:
" There is no difference between symptoms of roasted coffee and raw coffee. It is believed that coffee antidotes almost all homoeopathic medicines; but it is doubtful whether it could do so esp. when remedies are given in high potency (Clarke). Experience shows that correctly selected homoeopathic remedy acts in spite of taking coffee. ..."
Cheers,
Shannon

[John Harvey]

Hi, Shannon --

Hahnemann lists them separately, with pathogeneses that, though similar, do differ. I recall that one and not the other was very clearly indicated during a very painful childbirth (and produced pleasantly surprising results rapidly, with the baby turning around from "spines" -- spine to spine -- to a normal position, engaging, and emerging within half an hour).

I've been unable to find a reference to either coffee in the Organon (though I think it is mentioned), but Clarke, in both the Dictionary and the Clinical Repertory, gives many remedies that Coffea-c. antidotes and none that Coffea-t. does.

Hope that helps. Cheers!

John

[Shannon Nelson]

Ah, thank you! I wouldn't have thought to look farther, but will put it on my "list".
Doing a quick comparison of remedy extraction of each of the two, coff (the raw version) is *vastly* more represented than coff-t (toasted); there are a few (small-to-tiny) that contain tosta but not cruda... Interesting; skimming the list, I would have assumed they'd work interchangeably, and am interested to hear not!

Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

You have to view them as similar rx in the same family, like so many others, and comparisons and differentials can be made, they might be in the details but nonetheless are vital when choosing the simillimum. Possibly the roasting liberates something in the same way that Spongia tosta does - apparently releasing iodine.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[John Harvey]

Hi, Shannon, and you're welcome. Hi, Joy -- I guess that roasting does liberate (or make chemically available) a few things, including flavour. In general, it was Hahnemann's observation that cooking plants reduced medicinal properties. Perhaps that's what's reflected in the much smaller pathogenesis of Coffea-t. (Or perhaps it's hardly received any proving. I haven't checked.)

Cheers --

John

[Gail A]

In Clarke's dictionary he gives a list under 'Relations' that Coffea-c
antidotes. The antidotal relationship to the same remedies is talked
about in the text of Coffea-t, but they are not listed in this
'Relations' section. The collection of information is a bit messy. He
does say that he doesn't make an effort to separate the information, and
under Coffea-c he actually talks a lot about the effects of drinking
coffee. When you compare the symptoms of the two, body system by body
system, they are very similar, just different words.

Under Coffeinum Clarke says that the proving didn't produce any symptoms
not already found in the pathogenesis of Coffea.

Gail

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, John Harvey wrote:

[John Harvey]

Thanks, Gail; for clarity, I should mention that the Coffea that you mention Clarke's referring to (in your last sentence) is Coffea cruda.

Cheers --

John