Hi,
Elsewhere, I was discussing the cycles and segments that Herscu
illustrates during seminars. I have never had an opportunity to take
a seminar and just learned how to use them from tapes and by reading
his jounals. I am wondering if the illustrations that he uses are
meant as identifying patterns for the remedy, that is are they pretty
stable for individual remedies, or are they something that you would
invent with each case? I have only been able to get the program to
work the free way, not with suggestions that I understand the program
is supposed to give. May be someone who has taken his seminars knows
about these two unrelated questions 1) If the Cycles and Segments are
meant to be standard for each remedy and 2.) how to use Cycles and
Segments in Radar with hints given by the program.
Thanks,
Ellen Madono
Herscu cycles and Segments
-
Rosemary Hyde
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
How to use the Herscu module in Radar is way beyond what I can describe.
I've only been able to get it to work the "free" way, as well.
As I understand the cycle and segment idea, both are fixed for each remedy.
The patient may be at one or another point in the cycle upon first
presentation. However, during the life history, one will see at least a
hint of the other segments. The trick (the art) is finding a good title for
each theme in a case, and then placing the rubrics in the case accurately
into the themes one has selected. If the case is too "one-sided," this
method doesn't work very well, in my experience, because the number of
themes is restricted. (a cycle generally has 4-6 segments, each with at
least 3 or so rubrics crossing different systems (e.g. both mental and
emotional).) I also, personally, find that frequently, there are a couple or
three obvious themes, and then a bunch of other important rubrics for which
I can't figure out any commonality. For instance, I remember trying to
analyze the case of a child with allergies and some autistic spectrum
tendencies, the strong presence of "allergic shiners" -- dark circles around
the eyes -- and a fixation on drawing the "dashboards" (control panels) of
every car he sees -- this was a preschool aged child who had not learned to
read and write, yet who got every word, letter and number on the dashboards
totally accurate -- from memory, after leaving the car. So he clearly also
had an "eidetic" (photographic) memory. These two symptoms didn't seem to
fit together, and they didn't seem to fit with anything else in the case --
but they were both striking aspects of it, and it seemed the analysis had to
account for them somehow. I wasn't able to put together a "cycles and
segments" analysis for the totality of this case. As with most relatively
complex skills, practice improves one's success, but this is not the easiest
way to find a remedy if other things help to narrow down the choices.
It will be interesting to see what changes or additions to this description
someone who understands "Cycles and Segments" will make. I look forward to
learning more.
Rosemary
Rosemary
"Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you
will what you imagine and at last you create what you will."
~George Bernard Shaw
I've only been able to get it to work the "free" way, as well.
As I understand the cycle and segment idea, both are fixed for each remedy.
The patient may be at one or another point in the cycle upon first
presentation. However, during the life history, one will see at least a
hint of the other segments. The trick (the art) is finding a good title for
each theme in a case, and then placing the rubrics in the case accurately
into the themes one has selected. If the case is too "one-sided," this
method doesn't work very well, in my experience, because the number of
themes is restricted. (a cycle generally has 4-6 segments, each with at
least 3 or so rubrics crossing different systems (e.g. both mental and
emotional).) I also, personally, find that frequently, there are a couple or
three obvious themes, and then a bunch of other important rubrics for which
I can't figure out any commonality. For instance, I remember trying to
analyze the case of a child with allergies and some autistic spectrum
tendencies, the strong presence of "allergic shiners" -- dark circles around
the eyes -- and a fixation on drawing the "dashboards" (control panels) of
every car he sees -- this was a preschool aged child who had not learned to
read and write, yet who got every word, letter and number on the dashboards
totally accurate -- from memory, after leaving the car. So he clearly also
had an "eidetic" (photographic) memory. These two symptoms didn't seem to
fit together, and they didn't seem to fit with anything else in the case --
but they were both striking aspects of it, and it seemed the analysis had to
account for them somehow. I wasn't able to put together a "cycles and
segments" analysis for the totality of this case. As with most relatively
complex skills, practice improves one's success, but this is not the easiest
way to find a remedy if other things help to narrow down the choices.
It will be interesting to see what changes or additions to this description
someone who understands "Cycles and Segments" will make. I look forward to
learning more.
Rosemary
Rosemary
"Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you
will what you imagine and at last you create what you will."
~George Bernard Shaw
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Dear Rosemary,
Yes, I have this same experience with many extra rubrics in the
analysis. I don't know where to put them in my layout of C&S.
Sometimes the themes just pop out. Especially the physical M/E
parallels.
I guess the free way is ok when I am just grouping symptoms. He says
that within a clipboard, the lack of balance between say the number or
remedies in a rubric or the strong emphasis happening because of more
rubrics for a particular symptom can be reduced. It seems that the
calculation is based on the internal integrity of each individual
clipboard. Or that's how I interpret it. So I like to look and see
how the analysis turns out even if I lack a good cycle. He says that
a rubric with 50 remedies is a good one but over 100 is too many.
Don't know why.
I hope someone who has studied with him replies. I am wondering if
they rely heavily on the cycles that he has created or if they find
their own.
Best,
Ellen
Yes, I have this same experience with many extra rubrics in the
analysis. I don't know where to put them in my layout of C&S.
Sometimes the themes just pop out. Especially the physical M/E
parallels.
I guess the free way is ok when I am just grouping symptoms. He says
that within a clipboard, the lack of balance between say the number or
remedies in a rubric or the strong emphasis happening because of more
rubrics for a particular symptom can be reduced. It seems that the
calculation is based on the internal integrity of each individual
clipboard. Or that's how I interpret it. So I like to look and see
how the analysis turns out even if I lack a good cycle. He says that
a rubric with 50 remedies is a good one but over 100 is too many.
Don't know why.
I hope someone who has studied with him replies. I am wondering if
they rely heavily on the cycles that he has created or if they find
their own.
Best,
Ellen
-
Theresa Partington
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
I have been to 3 seminars on this (one Paul, two Amy). I have seen parallels with the Boenninghausen approach. If you take a very complete symptom with modalitiesand generalities you might expect that to be representative of the person as a whole. So if someone has a typical rheumatism/arthritis with stiffness, ameliorated by motion there might be those characteristics in other aspects of the person.
In terms of the cycle, you might get some symptoms that could be called stiffness and some that show amelioration by activity. 4-6 categories would be best( others could be chilliness, fear, breakdown etc etc) but distribute the symptoms around the segments and see what comes through all of them. The person will be showing that range of generalities and modalities and states and the remedy that comes through will obviously have that 'story', too. Remedies are taught via their 'stories' and the various aspects and levels of them can be made to fit into a cycle, too.
I don't think the system lends itself to a Kential analysis which doesn't bother me too much but, even so, I struggle to make it work. By the time I have put the symptoms in I will often have worked out a good remedy in my head anyway.
If you believe that the perfectly taken symptom is a guide to the whole then the advantage is that you are compensating for the deficiency of repertories. You will not end up over-emphasising the one symptom that you can find a rubric for and ignoring ones you can't find rubrics for. Everything has its place in the overall picture. If you can't find stiff attitudes to child-rearing ( for example) there will be other examples of stiffness that you can find.
I do think Radar could do with providing an idiot's guide for this - I believe you are even left to work out the icons for yourself, aren't you?
BW
Theresa
In terms of the cycle, you might get some symptoms that could be called stiffness and some that show amelioration by activity. 4-6 categories would be best( others could be chilliness, fear, breakdown etc etc) but distribute the symptoms around the segments and see what comes through all of them. The person will be showing that range of generalities and modalities and states and the remedy that comes through will obviously have that 'story', too. Remedies are taught via their 'stories' and the various aspects and levels of them can be made to fit into a cycle, too.
I don't think the system lends itself to a Kential analysis which doesn't bother me too much but, even so, I struggle to make it work. By the time I have put the symptoms in I will often have worked out a good remedy in my head anyway.
If you believe that the perfectly taken symptom is a guide to the whole then the advantage is that you are compensating for the deficiency of repertories. You will not end up over-emphasising the one symptom that you can find a rubric for and ignoring ones you can't find rubrics for. Everything has its place in the overall picture. If you can't find stiff attitudes to child-rearing ( for example) there will be other examples of stiffness that you can find.
I do think Radar could do with providing an idiot's guide for this - I believe you are even left to work out the icons for yourself, aren't you?
BW
Theresa
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Hi Theresa,
How fortunate you are. 3 seminars!!
Yes. I see what you mean. It is like the Boenninghausen approach.
That in itself is so helpful. Do you think that a really clear cycle
is essential? If you have put together some clear themes, something
approaching good Boenninghausen modalities (with or without the
physical M/E symptom parallel), don't you have a pretty good segnent?
At lleast you have something close to a Boenninghausen generality. I
am sure that is blasphamy from a Boenninghausen purist point of view,
but I think that is what you mean. It is not a Kentian approach, it
is more Boenninghausen.
You mentioned "ameliorations by" as a causal link between segments.
What other forms of causation do you use? In general, it causation
time based? This happens then this? Does it have to repeat itself or
can it be a progression of the life story that does not necessarily
lead back to the first segment? I suppose not.
How careful are you about using the right sized rubric?
I know how you feel. By the time you have the perfect argument set
up, you already know the remedy. I really like to check and
counter-check myself even if I already know. Somehow the playing
field seems more open and I get to know the case better when I use
various forms of analysis.
Best,
Ellen
How fortunate you are. 3 seminars!!
Yes. I see what you mean. It is like the Boenninghausen approach.
That in itself is so helpful. Do you think that a really clear cycle
is essential? If you have put together some clear themes, something
approaching good Boenninghausen modalities (with or without the
physical M/E symptom parallel), don't you have a pretty good segnent?
At lleast you have something close to a Boenninghausen generality. I
am sure that is blasphamy from a Boenninghausen purist point of view,
but I think that is what you mean. It is not a Kentian approach, it
is more Boenninghausen.
You mentioned "ameliorations by" as a causal link between segments.
What other forms of causation do you use? In general, it causation
time based? This happens then this? Does it have to repeat itself or
can it be a progression of the life story that does not necessarily
lead back to the first segment? I suppose not.
How careful are you about using the right sized rubric?
I know how you feel. By the time you have the perfect argument set
up, you already know the remedy. I really like to check and
counter-check myself even if I already know. Somehow the playing
field seems more open and I get to know the case better when I use
various forms of analysis.
Best,
Ellen
-
Theresa Partington
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Ellen wrote:
Hi Theresa,
How fortunate you are. 3 seminars!!THIS IS WHERE ROCHELLE CHIPS IN AND SAYS SHE HAS BEEN TO EVEN MORE AND I HAVE IT WRONG!
Yes. I see what you mean. It is like the Boenninghausen approach.
That in itself is so helpful. Do you think that a really clear cycle
is essential? If you have put together some clear themes, something
approaching good Boenninghausen modalities (with or without the
physical M/E symptom parallel), don't you have a pretty good segnent?PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER WOULD BE THE CYCLE, NOT THE SEGMENT. TAKING IT ALL AS A WHOLE RATHER THAN PUTTING IT INTO SEGMENTS IS A DIFFERENT METHODOLOGY - ONE THAT WORKS WELL MUCH OF THE TIME.
At lleast you have something close to a Boenninghausen generality. I
am sure that is blasphamy from a Boenninghausen purist point of view,
but I think that is what you mean. It is not a Kentian approach, it
is more Boenninghausen. I HAVE SEEN IT AS AN EXTENSION OF BOENNINGHAUSEN AS MENTALS AND EMOTIONALS ARE FITTED IN MORE THAN HE WOULD HAVE DONE. THEY WOULD PROBABLY ALL BY HORRIFIED BY MY INTERPRETATION.
You mentioned "ameliorations by" as a causal link between segments. THE CAUSAL STUFF COMES IN TO THE DEVELOPING STATES EG FRANTIC EXERTION LEADING TO EXHAUSTION LEADING TO COLLAPSE LEADING TO NEED FOR STIMULATION LEADING TO FRANTIC ACTIVITY ETC. MODALITIES CAN BE PART OF THAT EG > MOTION, OR COULD JUST BE A BIT ON THEIR OWN EG >COLD APPLICATION
What other forms of causation do you use? A CLEAR TRAUMATIC AETIOLOGY MIGHT MAKE ME LOOK AT A DIFFERENT WAY OF APPROACHING THE CASE. In general, it causation
time based? This happens then this? Does it have to repeat itself or
can it be a progression of the life story that does not necessarily
lead back to the first segment? I suppose not. HMM. IF YOU ARE ILL YOU ARE LOCKED IN A CYCLE AND VICE VERSA. IF YOU CAN PROGRESS AND MOVE OUT OF IT YOU ARE WELL OR AT LEAST GETTING BETTER. THAT IS HOW YOU WOULD TELL IF THE REMEDY HAD WORKED.
How careful are you about using the right sized rubric? USING EVEN ONE SMALL RUBRIC WOULD MEAN YOU WOULD BE UNLIKELY TO GET A REMEDY COMING THROUGH SEVERAL SEGMENTS, ESPECIALLY IF THE REMEDIES WERE UNUSUAL ONES. USING ALL HUGE RUBRICS WOULD GIVE YOU SUCH A LONG LIST OF POLYCHRESTS COMING THROUGH ALL THAT IT WOULD BE EQUALLY USELESS. USING ONE OR TWO MIGHT BE OK. THE DECISION THEREFORE MAKES ITSELF.
I know how you feel. By the time you have the perfect argument set
up, you already know the remedy. I really like to check and
counter-check myself even if I already know. Somehow the playing
field seems more open and I get to know the case better when I use
various forms of analysis. I AGREE. YOU LEARN MORE ABOUT THE REMEDIES TOO.
I HOPE THIS IS HELPFUL BUT I AM NOT REALLY AN EXPERT. AMY DOES IT ALL SO QUICKLY AND MAKES IT LOOK SO SIMPLE BUT I STRUGGLE WITH IT.
THERESA
Hi Theresa,
How fortunate you are. 3 seminars!!THIS IS WHERE ROCHELLE CHIPS IN AND SAYS SHE HAS BEEN TO EVEN MORE AND I HAVE IT WRONG!
Yes. I see what you mean. It is like the Boenninghausen approach.
That in itself is so helpful. Do you think that a really clear cycle
is essential? If you have put together some clear themes, something
approaching good Boenninghausen modalities (with or without the
physical M/E symptom parallel), don't you have a pretty good segnent?PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER WOULD BE THE CYCLE, NOT THE SEGMENT. TAKING IT ALL AS A WHOLE RATHER THAN PUTTING IT INTO SEGMENTS IS A DIFFERENT METHODOLOGY - ONE THAT WORKS WELL MUCH OF THE TIME.
At lleast you have something close to a Boenninghausen generality. I
am sure that is blasphamy from a Boenninghausen purist point of view,
but I think that is what you mean. It is not a Kentian approach, it
is more Boenninghausen. I HAVE SEEN IT AS AN EXTENSION OF BOENNINGHAUSEN AS MENTALS AND EMOTIONALS ARE FITTED IN MORE THAN HE WOULD HAVE DONE. THEY WOULD PROBABLY ALL BY HORRIFIED BY MY INTERPRETATION.
You mentioned "ameliorations by" as a causal link between segments. THE CAUSAL STUFF COMES IN TO THE DEVELOPING STATES EG FRANTIC EXERTION LEADING TO EXHAUSTION LEADING TO COLLAPSE LEADING TO NEED FOR STIMULATION LEADING TO FRANTIC ACTIVITY ETC. MODALITIES CAN BE PART OF THAT EG > MOTION, OR COULD JUST BE A BIT ON THEIR OWN EG >COLD APPLICATION
What other forms of causation do you use? A CLEAR TRAUMATIC AETIOLOGY MIGHT MAKE ME LOOK AT A DIFFERENT WAY OF APPROACHING THE CASE. In general, it causation
time based? This happens then this? Does it have to repeat itself or
can it be a progression of the life story that does not necessarily
lead back to the first segment? I suppose not. HMM. IF YOU ARE ILL YOU ARE LOCKED IN A CYCLE AND VICE VERSA. IF YOU CAN PROGRESS AND MOVE OUT OF IT YOU ARE WELL OR AT LEAST GETTING BETTER. THAT IS HOW YOU WOULD TELL IF THE REMEDY HAD WORKED.
How careful are you about using the right sized rubric? USING EVEN ONE SMALL RUBRIC WOULD MEAN YOU WOULD BE UNLIKELY TO GET A REMEDY COMING THROUGH SEVERAL SEGMENTS, ESPECIALLY IF THE REMEDIES WERE UNUSUAL ONES. USING ALL HUGE RUBRICS WOULD GIVE YOU SUCH A LONG LIST OF POLYCHRESTS COMING THROUGH ALL THAT IT WOULD BE EQUALLY USELESS. USING ONE OR TWO MIGHT BE OK. THE DECISION THEREFORE MAKES ITSELF.
I know how you feel. By the time you have the perfect argument set
up, you already know the remedy. I really like to check and
counter-check myself even if I already know. Somehow the playing
field seems more open and I get to know the case better when I use
various forms of analysis. I AGREE. YOU LEARN MORE ABOUT THE REMEDIES TOO.
I HOPE THIS IS HELPFUL BUT I AM NOT REALLY AN EXPERT. AMY DOES IT ALL SO QUICKLY AND MAKES IT LOOK SO SIMPLE BUT I STRUGGLE WITH IT.
THERESA
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Yes Theresa , you remembered that I spent 3 days recently at a seminar with Herscu. Basically he had been to that college before and there was a presumption that students already understood how to use the segments so I was completely out of my depth here. However what I did find fascinating which was really what I went for and that was the cycles. I have sent the cycles we did on the course to Ellen and that is what prompted this discussion because I asked Ellen if she had anymore cycles of the remedies.
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
-
Lynn Cremona
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Here is an audio discussion from Whole Health Now
with Paul Herscu on Cycles & Segments
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/pherscu-3.mp3
This is the site it comes from:
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/teleconferences.html
Lynn
Imagine Peace
with Paul Herscu on Cycles & Segments
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/pherscu-3.mp3
This is the site it comes from:
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/teleconferences.html
Lynn
Imagine Peace
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Thanks for that . Am listening to it now!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Herscu cycles and Segments
Hi,
You are losing me with this reply Below. Isn't each segment based on
some theme-- something that holds together several otherwise
unrelated rubrics?
Yes. I see what you mean. It is like the Boenninghausen approach.
I said: That in itself is so helpful. Do you think that a really clear cycle
is essential? If you have put together some clear themes, something
approaching good Boenninghausen modalities (with or without the
physical M/E symptom parallel), don't you have a pretty good segnent?
You said: PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER WOULD BE THE CYCLE, NOT THE
SEGMENT. TAKING IT ALL AS A WHOLE RATHER THAN PUTTING IT INTO SEGMENTS
IS A DIFFERENT METHODOLOGY - ONE THAT WORKS WELL MUCH OF THE TIME.
Patients don't tell their stories as causal links. If they did, we
would be out of work. They would understand their problem.
50 is my recall of a good sized rubric. What is the range?
Thanks Lynn. I will listen to the site and get back.
I wonder if anyone reads a remedy MM and immediately think of a cycle.
It seems it is not that obvious and there could be many different
cycles for one MM.
Blessings,
Ellen
You are losing me with this reply Below. Isn't each segment based on
some theme-- something that holds together several otherwise
unrelated rubrics?
Yes. I see what you mean. It is like the Boenninghausen approach.
I said: That in itself is so helpful. Do you think that a really clear cycle
is essential? If you have put together some clear themes, something
approaching good Boenninghausen modalities (with or without the
physical M/E symptom parallel), don't you have a pretty good segnent?
You said: PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER WOULD BE THE CYCLE, NOT THE
SEGMENT. TAKING IT ALL AS A WHOLE RATHER THAN PUTTING IT INTO SEGMENTS
IS A DIFFERENT METHODOLOGY - ONE THAT WORKS WELL MUCH OF THE TIME.
Patients don't tell their stories as causal links. If they did, we
would be out of work. They would understand their problem.
50 is my recall of a good sized rubric. What is the range?
Thanks Lynn. I will listen to the site and get back.
I wonder if anyone reads a remedy MM and immediately think of a cycle.
It seems it is not that obvious and there could be many different
cycles for one MM.
Blessings,
Ellen