OT- Repertory of Bach Flower Remedies

[d rona]

I realize this is a bit off topic-but so many of us use multiple modalities in our practice and since –as homeopaths- you have knowledge of and experience with repertories, I would appreciate your input. However since this is off topic please only respond off list (rona@consultant.com).
I recently completed writing a course on the Bach Flower Remedies. The extreme range of resource materials was remarkable-and a large number are simply bit goofy. Many have attempted a "repertory like" synopsis-but only a few are useable and none meet the high standards of homeopathic repertories.
First, does anyone have recommendations for a really good existing repertory of the Bach Flower Remedies? Given what you have used-what do you like or (just as important) what don’t you like?
Second, if I compile a new one, using existing materials as a start point, what organizational format would be most useful? My first thought was to adopt the format of the old “bedside prescribers ‘’- but now I am considering the more formal repertory format.
Thank you in advance for sharing your advice and insights.
Donna
D C Rona, PhD, ND, DHM

please use rona@consultant.com

for all correspondence - Thank you

-----------------------------------------

Stress Repertory: Signs and Symptoms of Stress Induced Nutrient Depletion

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also available at bookstores and online booksellers

New series - Health and Healing Journals - just released!

[Irene de Villiers]

Is it really off topic? Bach remedies can be a great addition to
homeopaths - if only as part of removing maintaining cause.
For example today a case of a lonely cat (companion died a while back
and owner is away all day) who loves attention but bites anyone
(badly!) who tries to leave him, is so easy to remedy with a few
sprays of aqueous Bach remedy, and it can be followed by simillimum
once devised (Ignatia). ......Without the Bach remedy, the cat is
unsafe to approach.
With the Bach remedy, the cat can be approached to dose its slower-
acting but more deeply and long-term acting Ignatia.

If I am wrong to answer here after all, please let me know.
My answer is:
I have consulted from a vet clinic in the use of Bach Remedies for
many years, and stopped only when I became too ill to work fulltime
in late 1999. I now still use them with email vethom consults as in
the above example. At the clinic, the owners saw how amazingly
effective they are and I often had "sidebar consults" with owners as
well. I have read every bach remedy book i could lay hands on but
there is not one that comes anywhere near to the wonderful one I
still see as the "organon equivalent" for Bach remedies. It's a
little book relatively, but it describes the nature of each remedy so
well, that it is easy to get to know each remedy and its potential uses.

I also feel that it would be a great mistake to put this into a
repertory!
Anyone who is serious about Bach remedies, can readily learn each one
individually, it's not like homeopathy where there are thousands of
remedies with tens thousand rubrics each. There are only just over 3
dozen Back remedeis, and the direction of action of each is very
characteristic once understood. A piece of cake to learn, compared
with homeopahthy, and that indeed was the intent of Dr Edward Bach
when he devised them.

I believe sincerely that a repertory approach is not useful for Bach
remedies. This is especially true because they are used differently
for different situations and personalities. It is better to stress
the need to ask lots of suitable questions (and to write a book on
doing this) to understand the personality of the individual needing a
remedy and how to select the Bach remedies accordingly. My favorite
book goes far in this but perhaps that is where there is the biggest
need - especially for the person with as yet no experience.

An example: (Excuse that it is a veterinary one please - the
principle is the same however in any species including human)
A cat was in the habit of yowling at the owner for food when the
owner came home. Without going into details on training needed - the
remedy needed would by repertory suggest the use of Chestnut Bud to
break a habit. But that would be incorrect. Instdead a study of the
remedy Rock Water, would teach one that this remedy is important
where flexibilithy of attitude is required - an d in cats it is an
attitude issue rather than an actual habit issue, that needs changing
here. So understanding the remedies mattefrs MORE here in getting a
successful case than a repertory rote "bad habit use Chestnut Bud"
type of approach.
if on the other hand you were handling a dog who indeed was
doing something by habit, (and dogs personalities are more likely to
be doing a rote habit than cats as they are pack creatures where cats
are solo hunters), then Chestnut Bud will be PART of the answer. But
not enough. It is not enough to try to "break" a habit. One needs to
replace it. Thus you would also use Wild Oat
to make sure the dog finds something better to do. OR if the reason
for the habit is specific - like loneliness - you'd use Heather with
the Chestnut Bud - or if the reason for the habit was resentment,
you'd add Willow with the Chestnut Bud - and so on.
the repertory can not tell you how to see the situation as a whole -
and thus how to select the right Bach Remedy COMBINATIONS. Back
remedies are intended to be used in groups that go together to make a
synergistic whole. Repertories are NOT geared to that.
Repertory work can not do any of the thinking here. But knowing each
Bach remedy's individual characteristics and trends - CAN do that.
Please know I am not intending to "rain on your parade", a new book
of the right kind would be great - but I seriously believe that
trying to make Bach remedy decisions by repertory will lead to LESS
success in cases, not more. Repertories can not tell you what COMBO
you need, they are single-simillimum-oriented.
Knowing HOW to choose Bach remedies is indeed needed - but that has
to do with devising the right questions that differentiate Bach
remedies. For Bach remedies the main challenge is in this area of
acquiring the right information by asking the right questions - not
with how you use the information (as is the case with a repertory.)
SO a book on how to conduct a Bach interview, and the type of
questions that differentiate specific Bach remedies - would be most
useful to a new practitioner - with lots of examples.

I hope this is food for thought. I think the principles I tried to
explain here, are why most Bach remedy books are so worthless.
Oh - The one I like is at home, I'll need to get the name and author
correct for you and the source - and send that in a new email. It has
no ISBN number - one orders it direct, an address is stamped inside -
so it is probably a less well known book - but worth its weight in
gold:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[d rona]

Hello Irene,

Thanks for your input. I certainly respect your point of view that a
repertory is not needed by an intelligent homeopath - used to truly learning
and utilizing information in the context of individualization. Most of my
students for this course are not homeopaths and the mindset of homeopathic
individualization is totally alien. In this case I am working primarily
with 'traditional' MDs, chiropractors, dentists, nurses, and a wide variety
of specialized therapists.

Second, I agree that the Bach Flower Remedies make an excellent companion to
the homeopathic remedies and serve a very appropriate place in gentle and
kind care (I find them particularly useful with babies, children and
animals), however there are those on this list that consider anything not
classical homeopathy as blasphemy and I have been told in no uncertain terms
by a few nasty off list emails that I should never use this list for such a
discussion. That is why I respectfully requested off list responses to the
post.

Donna

D C Rona, PhD, ND, DHM
Stress Repertory: Signs and Symptoms of Stress Induced Nutrient Depletion
http://stores.lulu.com/drrona
also available at bookstores and online booksellers
New series - Health and Healing Journals - just released!

[Liz Brynin]

Thanks for that input, Irene. It's extremely useful to discuss Bach Flower remedies as I find them a useful adjunct to homeopathy in some cases. I agree with you on the need to ask the right questions - but then isn't that just the way with homeopathy, as well!
I would be interested to know the name of the book you mentioned, and how to get it.
All the best
Liz
________________________________

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Irene and Donna,

I have been recently using the flower remedies and agree with Irene.
There are fewer flower remedies to deal with and combinations are
encouraged. So getting to the bottom of the problem is essential. I
think it is the same for homeopathic remedies except we have to deal
with so many more remedies that without a rep, it would be difficult
to consider all the possibilities. At first I thought that reading
about the flower remedies remedies was overwhelming, but when looking
to solve a specific problem, it became much easier. I am using a book
by Particia Kamnski and Richard Katz called Flower Essence repertory.
It is not what homeopaths would think of as a repertory, but it
discusses different remedies in terms of specific traits (rubrics) as
well as each remedy individually. Looking at the remedy in comparison
to other remedies that approach the same problem in a different way
help you to see the possibilities. I really like the presentation. I
would be interested in reading more of these kinds of comparisons and
maybe case descriptions. Being more emotionally focused, it is
another way to think about cases. I like it.

I have a case that seems to have recovered with a flower remedy. I am
not sure that the homeopathic remedy that I gave her actually did
anything. It if did, it is slow and subtle. At least until I find
the right homeopathic remedy, I have given her something that is
helpful.

Best,
Ellen

[Irene de Villiers]

Hi Donna R,

Please excuse the delay answering...
Perhaps I was not so clear - I do not think one needs exceptional
intelligence - nor to be a homeopath - to use the Bach remedies
well. That is not what I meant by advising not to use a repertory.

My intention was to convey that a mere 38 remedies can soon become
friends to use from knowledge of familiarity plus common sense, and
that a repertory is by nature not geared to pointing out good
mixtures, only to pointing to good individual items.
Hence the emphasis which one has from a repertory - in selecting a
remedy AFTER you have the interview information - is in my view
unsuited to Bach work, and a course on using the remedies should IMO
concentrate more on *aquiring* the kind of information that would
enable the selection of a SET of remedies to be synergistic together.
A repertory does not tell you what info to acquire, so it is no help
there either; it assumes you already acquired what you need.
If anything more training is needed IMO on the matter of
selecting that Bach mix, and how to make it better as a mix - what is
superfluous, what works better in which cases and so on, how to
include a Bach personality remedy for synergism, how to balance a
Bach remedy mix to contain positive (forward-looking) components as
well as fix-it (problem removal) ones, and how to cater for reactive
remedies.
No repertory will do any of that. It is a completely separate set of
skills to anything used in repertorizing.
That can be a good thing:-)
They will not be prejudiced against getting a mixture right:-)
Nor will they be prejudiced in favor of a mechanical repertorizing
system to choose a remedy!
Also to undo seriously disruptive behavior that is emotionally induced.
[I recall a case where the man's dog bit his wife on the bum any time
he could - from jealousy and posessiveness - till the owner took the
animal for euthanasia, tears streaming down his face - a Bach
intervention saved the situation. After two weeks the wife was saying
"What problem?" ]

In terms of Bach remedy assistance in homeopathy cases, I'd lIke to
mention two examples using just Rescue Remedy:
Case 1:
Deathly ill cat with 3 month case of undiagnosed pyometra - vomiting
in the middle of the night, seemingly unable to stop vomiting. She
indeed was later diagnosed with the pyometra that three vets had
missed, and was getting suitable homeopathy for her symptoms as best
they were known but it was taking time to kick in. I gave her rescue
remedy every 5 minutes during the vomiting which stopped after the
2nd dose. This gave me the time I needed to figure a Bryonia 30C
intercurrent remedy to dose in addition to simillimum - one dose in
the evenings after that to prevent the tendency to the night vomiting
as she healed.
Case 2:
Cat with Oleander poisoning was getting simillimum remedy in one drop
doses as needed to get rid of oleander toxin in the tissues after a
poisoning incident.
I accidentally gave 2 drops once and the cat's heart stopped due to
the excessive release of Oleander toxin all at once. Rescue remedy
got the heart going again - and remedy completed the case - the only
known cat to survive Oleander poisoning in the Cape area.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[d_rona2000]

Thank you to all who responded on and off list. Your encouragement and opinions of the various books available are greatly appreciated. Also, your wonderful experiences were inspiring.

Donna
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Irene,
That was very helpful.
Thank-you,
Ellen Madono

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Irene de Villiers
wrote:

[Irene de Villiers]

Nice feedback thanks - my pleasure.
...Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."