FRONTLINE for fleas - was Loss of balance {any ideas}?
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:48 am
Frontline comes in at least three different forms, probably four.
Originally (mid-60s) the only active ingredient was fipronil, and it
is the one that kills fleas, and it is there is extremely small
concentration, and very low toxicity - hard to find a toxic response
anywhere.
Nowadays - most of the Frontline products contain an ingredient
called Methoprene (the "plus" in most Frontline products, thus called
Frotline Plus if you look at the small print) AND/OR they are
concentrated into a shoulder application called Frontline TOPSPOT.
Both the methoprene new ingredient and the stupid idea of putting a
concentrate on the skin - make these products VERY much more toxic
than the original. (The original is the only one I use or suggest if
anyone needs a chemical approach. It goes dilute on the fur - NONE on
the skin - and if you prevent grooming 5 mins the cats will tend to
leave it alone anyway.)
So I wonder which you used that caused a problem?
And I wonder which was used to make a remedy?
MOST vets only sell Frontline-Plus, and Frontline Topspot, and not
the much safer plain Frontline spray.
Sounds awful.
Methoprene is the most likely culprit, (rather than the actualo flea
killer fiproni)l:
Methoprene is a "terpinoid" chemical, and that is awful stuff but
worse is the concentration of it in the Frontline new products, wiith
"plus" added to the name. Methoprene also causes enlarged liver.
Pfizer is notorious for knowingly making previously innocuous
products into life threatening ones with no warning to consumers or
vets. They do it by changing the ingredients and leaving the name the
same, so as to get sales based on past record. They also did it for
example with Kaopectate which was innocuous till a few yrs ago and it
now will cause death quickly instead of being helpful, due to a
change in ingredients. (Frontline is the same idea...)
It's not an organophosphate. There are seven of them, and they are:
chlorpyrifos, dichlorvos, phosmet, naled, tetrachlorvinphos, diazinon
and malathion
As you can see, they are not in Fipronil (and they would kill a cat
if used, as they lack ablity to break down these chemicals at all).
Sounds like your cat had a typical methoprene toxic response.
Fipronil overdose is hard to get (takes several kilograms of it,
ingested) and causes jitteriness for a short while.
Was it potentized from Frontline-plus or the old style Frontline
without the methoprene?
No,
It has fipronil to kill fleas, not an organophosphate. And it
contains (unnecessary) methoprene, also not an OP, but toxic another
way.
The methoprene causes toxicty responses though Pfizer has done a good
job of hiding that toxicity on tyeh internet i see - not good enough
- it is documented in the NAtioanl Library of medicine in a 2005 dtuedy.
It is a cytotoxin - toxic to all the cells. I'll quote:
".....cytotoxic action of methoprene. Cell growth was affected and a
decrease of the number of viable cells was observed as a result of
the addition of methoprene to the growth medium, an effect reverted
by the presence of Ca(2+). Methoprene also inhibited the redox flow
of B. stearothermophilus protoplasts before the cytochrome oxidase
segment, an effect further studied by individually assessing the
enzymatic activities of the respiratory complexes. This study
suggests that methoprene membrane interaction and perturbation of
cell bioenergetics may underlie the mechanism of toxicity of this
compound in non-target organisms."
[The ref is:
Toxicol In Vitro. 2005 Oct;19(7):951-6. Epub 2005 Aug 2.
Toxicity of methoprene as assessed by the use of a model microorganism.
Monteiro JP, Jurado AS, Moreno AJ, Madeira VM.]
Other research shows liver damage (enlarged liver) from methoprene,
and also that endocrine function is disturbed.
This would explain your cat's response I believe, as the cell
toxicity affects respiration and would cause your cat to be lying
still and inactive. It was weird finding so many claims of
nontoxicity for this chemical all over the internet as you could
easily find plenty of them in the nineties before Pfizer added it to
Frontline. I remember it because I did an in depth article on flea
products for cats in my magazine at the time and reported Methoprene
as toxicity 4 on a scale of 1 to five and fipronil as a 1. Methoprene
as a terpene also will go through the skin.
The percentage present in Topspot is horridly high too, somewhere
like 12%.
The other Frontline ingredient, fipronil, would have to be ingested
in solid form in quantity to induce any symptoms in a cat/person.
However it is always listed in data sheets with warnings as one can
buy fipronil in solid powder form, it is used in agriculture that way
- not great, it sticks around too long. In insects it disrupts the
GABA receptor of nerves (blocks the GABA receptor site).
Fipronil toxicity tests in dogs: When dogs were fed large amounts of
dry fipronil (20mg/Kg wt) in food in a toxicity study, they got
hyperactive symptoms and refused food containing it, and had
excessive reflex responses.
The Frontline spray for cats has a very small percentage of fipronil
in solution, only 0.29%.
That very low concentration is very relevant - in deciding where and
what toxicity is present.
It is a phenylpyrozole chemical. Anything with a phenyl group is not
good for cats, so it is toxic, and here one relies on the low
percentage hence very low solid amount per application - and
avoidance of ingestion of that application in any significant way
when using it.
Hence my conviction that the toxicity here is from methoprene, not
fipronil.
I still consider Frontline Spray (no "Plus" methoprene in it) the
least toxic commercial flea product for cats.
When possible (and in some climates this is not enough) use berwer's
yeast added to food instead.
I think you were right to act fast.
Sometimes it helps to give a high dose of antioxidants as well:
Vit C (as ascorbic acid), Vit E and alpha lipoic acid.
So far I have not yet seen any case of toxicity from the original
Frontline spray (made by Meriel before Pfizer got involved)
containing only a small percentage of fipronil - which can still be
found, albeit with difficulty. (It also needs to be used correctly -
and those original nineties instructions are also missing now that
Pfizer is involved. One does not apply it to skin - only to fur
surface, till it is just damp, and it needs to be done in fresh air,
facing the wind/breeze/fan so as not to breathe the evaporating
carrier.)
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Originally (mid-60s) the only active ingredient was fipronil, and it
is the one that kills fleas, and it is there is extremely small
concentration, and very low toxicity - hard to find a toxic response
anywhere.
Nowadays - most of the Frontline products contain an ingredient
called Methoprene (the "plus" in most Frontline products, thus called
Frotline Plus if you look at the small print) AND/OR they are
concentrated into a shoulder application called Frontline TOPSPOT.
Both the methoprene new ingredient and the stupid idea of putting a
concentrate on the skin - make these products VERY much more toxic
than the original. (The original is the only one I use or suggest if
anyone needs a chemical approach. It goes dilute on the fur - NONE on
the skin - and if you prevent grooming 5 mins the cats will tend to
leave it alone anyway.)
So I wonder which you used that caused a problem?
And I wonder which was used to make a remedy?
MOST vets only sell Frontline-Plus, and Frontline Topspot, and not
the much safer plain Frontline spray.
Sounds awful.
Methoprene is the most likely culprit, (rather than the actualo flea
killer fiproni)l:
Methoprene is a "terpinoid" chemical, and that is awful stuff but
worse is the concentration of it in the Frontline new products, wiith
"plus" added to the name. Methoprene also causes enlarged liver.
Pfizer is notorious for knowingly making previously innocuous
products into life threatening ones with no warning to consumers or
vets. They do it by changing the ingredients and leaving the name the
same, so as to get sales based on past record. They also did it for
example with Kaopectate which was innocuous till a few yrs ago and it
now will cause death quickly instead of being helpful, due to a
change in ingredients. (Frontline is the same idea...)
It's not an organophosphate. There are seven of them, and they are:
chlorpyrifos, dichlorvos, phosmet, naled, tetrachlorvinphos, diazinon
and malathion
As you can see, they are not in Fipronil (and they would kill a cat
if used, as they lack ablity to break down these chemicals at all).
Sounds like your cat had a typical methoprene toxic response.
Fipronil overdose is hard to get (takes several kilograms of it,
ingested) and causes jitteriness for a short while.
Was it potentized from Frontline-plus or the old style Frontline
without the methoprene?
No,
It has fipronil to kill fleas, not an organophosphate. And it
contains (unnecessary) methoprene, also not an OP, but toxic another
way.
The methoprene causes toxicty responses though Pfizer has done a good
job of hiding that toxicity on tyeh internet i see - not good enough
- it is documented in the NAtioanl Library of medicine in a 2005 dtuedy.
It is a cytotoxin - toxic to all the cells. I'll quote:
".....cytotoxic action of methoprene. Cell growth was affected and a
decrease of the number of viable cells was observed as a result of
the addition of methoprene to the growth medium, an effect reverted
by the presence of Ca(2+). Methoprene also inhibited the redox flow
of B. stearothermophilus protoplasts before the cytochrome oxidase
segment, an effect further studied by individually assessing the
enzymatic activities of the respiratory complexes. This study
suggests that methoprene membrane interaction and perturbation of
cell bioenergetics may underlie the mechanism of toxicity of this
compound in non-target organisms."
[The ref is:
Toxicol In Vitro. 2005 Oct;19(7):951-6. Epub 2005 Aug 2.
Toxicity of methoprene as assessed by the use of a model microorganism.
Monteiro JP, Jurado AS, Moreno AJ, Madeira VM.]
Other research shows liver damage (enlarged liver) from methoprene,
and also that endocrine function is disturbed.
This would explain your cat's response I believe, as the cell
toxicity affects respiration and would cause your cat to be lying
still and inactive. It was weird finding so many claims of
nontoxicity for this chemical all over the internet as you could
easily find plenty of them in the nineties before Pfizer added it to
Frontline. I remember it because I did an in depth article on flea
products for cats in my magazine at the time and reported Methoprene
as toxicity 4 on a scale of 1 to five and fipronil as a 1. Methoprene
as a terpene also will go through the skin.
The percentage present in Topspot is horridly high too, somewhere
like 12%.
The other Frontline ingredient, fipronil, would have to be ingested
in solid form in quantity to induce any symptoms in a cat/person.
However it is always listed in data sheets with warnings as one can
buy fipronil in solid powder form, it is used in agriculture that way
- not great, it sticks around too long. In insects it disrupts the
GABA receptor of nerves (blocks the GABA receptor site).
Fipronil toxicity tests in dogs: When dogs were fed large amounts of
dry fipronil (20mg/Kg wt) in food in a toxicity study, they got
hyperactive symptoms and refused food containing it, and had
excessive reflex responses.
The Frontline spray for cats has a very small percentage of fipronil
in solution, only 0.29%.
That very low concentration is very relevant - in deciding where and
what toxicity is present.
It is a phenylpyrozole chemical. Anything with a phenyl group is not
good for cats, so it is toxic, and here one relies on the low
percentage hence very low solid amount per application - and
avoidance of ingestion of that application in any significant way
when using it.
Hence my conviction that the toxicity here is from methoprene, not
fipronil.
I still consider Frontline Spray (no "Plus" methoprene in it) the
least toxic commercial flea product for cats.
When possible (and in some climates this is not enough) use berwer's
yeast added to food instead.
I think you were right to act fast.
Sometimes it helps to give a high dose of antioxidants as well:
Vit C (as ascorbic acid), Vit E and alpha lipoic acid.
So far I have not yet seen any case of toxicity from the original
Frontline spray (made by Meriel before Pfizer got involved)
containing only a small percentage of fipronil - which can still be
found, albeit with difficulty. (It also needs to be used correctly -
and those original nineties instructions are also missing now that
Pfizer is involved. One does not apply it to skin - only to fur
surface, till it is just damp, and it needs to be done in fresh air,
facing the wind/breeze/fan so as not to breathe the evaporating
carrier.)
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."