Well, chaneging question, perhaps the dose of remedy plays a role here.
John
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Nice deduction, Exactly. It is why we observe some pioneers have writen in their books that Belladona is a short acting remedy but others emphasize on having some cases that Belladona has worked more than 90 days. Both of them are right but they are talking about two complete different subjects.
Now let me put this subject for discussion. We agreed that secondary action of V.F against Homeopathic remedies is an individualized subject and different in any patient. We all know the reason of difference in secondary action in different people is difference in constitution, Resistance power of V.F and sensitivity of patients. That is completely right.
But we frequently observe the duration of action of one Homeopathy remedy (Secondary Action) is completely different in one person in two different conditions. For example once ArsC30 works for only few hours but in case of prescribing one or two months later for another reason to the same patient, it works several months. What is you idea about the reason? Here the consititution and sensitivity are almost the same.
Regards
F. Shaddel
"homeofan@yahoo.ca ." wrote:
Then, if I got it correctly, the duration of action of Homeopathic remedy in patient is a complete different issue than proving in healthy person. In first case, it is the duration of secondary action of V.F but in second case it is primary action of remedy. the first one should be very different in different patients but the second one should be almost the same in all provers. Like duration of action of conventional medicines. Am I right?
Best
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
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Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
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Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
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Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
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Secondary action
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Secondary action
On Apr 16, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Dr. John F. wrote:
But *are* they? If Ars 30 has worked for only a few hours, I would
assume it was either not the right remedy at that point (patient in a
different state) or else was being used for an acute illness, where the
energy of the remedy is "used up" much quicker. So altho the "birth" /
underlying / genetic constitution is still the same, to present-time
state of the body (also called the "constitution") is not the same.
And sensitivity also changes when the body is undergoing different
challenges.
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
But *are* they? If Ars 30 has worked for only a few hours, I would
assume it was either not the right remedy at that point (patient in a
different state) or else was being used for an acute illness, where the
energy of the remedy is "used up" much quicker. So altho the "birth" /
underlying / genetic constitution is still the same, to present-time
state of the body (also called the "constitution") is not the same.
And sensitivity also changes when the body is undergoing different
challenges.
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
homeofan@yahoo.ca .
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:17 pm
Re: Secondary action
Sorry I was out of office. Well, I dont have any idea about the question more than Shannon and John have told.
Regards
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Nice deduction, Exactly. It is why we observe some pioneers have writen in their books that Belladona is a short acting remedy but others emphasize on having some cases that Belladona has worked more than 90 days. Both of them are right but they are talking about two complete different subjects.
Now let me put this subject for discussion. We agreed that secondary action of V.F against Homeopathic remedies is an individualized subject and different in any patient. We all know the reason of difference in secondary action in different people is difference in constitution, Resistance power of V.F and sensitivity of patients. That is completely right.
But we frequently observe the duration of action of one Homeopathy remedy (Secondary Action) is completely different in one person in two different conditions. For example once ArsC30 works for only few hours but in case of prescribing one or two months later for another reason to the same patient, it works several months. What is you idea about the reason? Here the consititution and sensitivity are almost the same.
Regards
F. Shaddel
"homeofan@yahoo.ca ." wrote:
Then, if I got it correctly, the duration of action of Homeopathic remedy in patient is a complete different issue than proving in healthy person. In first case, it is the duration of secondary action of V.F but in second case it is primary action of remedy. the first one should be very different in different patients but the second one should be almost the same in all provers. Like duration of action of conventional medicines. Am I right?
Best
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
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Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
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Regards
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Nice deduction, Exactly. It is why we observe some pioneers have writen in their books that Belladona is a short acting remedy but others emphasize on having some cases that Belladona has worked more than 90 days. Both of them are right but they are talking about two complete different subjects.
Now let me put this subject for discussion. We agreed that secondary action of V.F against Homeopathic remedies is an individualized subject and different in any patient. We all know the reason of difference in secondary action in different people is difference in constitution, Resistance power of V.F and sensitivity of patients. That is completely right.
But we frequently observe the duration of action of one Homeopathy remedy (Secondary Action) is completely different in one person in two different conditions. For example once ArsC30 works for only few hours but in case of prescribing one or two months later for another reason to the same patient, it works several months. What is you idea about the reason? Here the consititution and sensitivity are almost the same.
Regards
F. Shaddel
"homeofan@yahoo.ca ." wrote:
Then, if I got it correctly, the duration of action of Homeopathic remedy in patient is a complete different issue than proving in healthy person. In first case, it is the duration of secondary action of V.F but in second case it is primary action of remedy. the first one should be very different in different patients but the second one should be almost the same in all provers. Like duration of action of conventional medicines. Am I right?
Best
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:
Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:
The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
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Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
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