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Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:54 am
by Shannon Nelson
"Cure" is one of those small and slippery words, does not mean the same thing, each time (or by each person) that it's used. Certainly that doctor has had patients "cured" by the conventional meanings, of acutes and even according to e.g. the "five-year survival" criterion in a cancer case.

So I would be interested to know exactly what *he* means, by this single case of "cure"? What was cured, in that single patient?
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Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:01 am
by Shannon Nelson
I agree, Touch For Health is wonderful -- and there are some other methods that share similar roots and methods, and are similarly wonderful. (And in some cases even more powerfully developed.) Clinical Kinesiology is amazing (they are from the same roots), and Applied Kinesiology, again closely related.

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:16 am
by Ginny Wilken
I suppose “irrelevant” comes close:) Making someone suffer by allowing them to shiver or sweat would have no effect on their healing abilities, and neither does providing a comfortable environment. But we all know what we’d choose:)

Interesting, perhaps is how often such descriptions, sometimes paradoxical, appear in the repertories: “Must be covered” “Throws off bedclothes” “Seeks cold air” “Wants head bare” etc.

As for the nutrient question, this to me is the same as diet: a lack of what the body needs is a maintaining cause, if withholding vitamins, etc. blocks vital healing processes. We feel discomfort because we are ill, and starvation for nutrients just makes symptoms last longer or worsen. I don’t see suppression or palliation in here anywhere.

ginny

All stunts performed without a net!

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:01 am
by Paulette Montoya
This is the ONLY case he recalled in all his years of practice that the patient was restored to health. I don't know the details of the patient.

A dermatologist (former patient of mine) shared basically the same information about his "cure rate". He KNEW his prescriptions kept his practice going with repeat customers!

Paulette
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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:54:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle

"Cure" is one of those small and slippery words, does not mean the same thing, each time (or by each person) that it's used. Certainly that doctor has had patients "cured" by the conventional meanings, of acutes and even according to e.g. the "five-year survival" criterion in a cancer case.
So I would be interested to know exactly what *he* means, by this single case of "cure"? What was cured, in that single patient?
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Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:20 am
by Paulette Montoya
Soroush,

I know. Homeopaths want the real thing! Allopaths, well what can anyone say about what they want?

Paulette
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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:23:35 +0100
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle
And how do we know the patient was cured ala Organon Aph 2??
§ 2
The highest ideal of cure is rapid, gentle and permanent restoration of the health, or removal and annihilation of the disease in its whole extent, in the shortest, most reliable, and most harmless way, on easily comprehensible principles.
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 19 August 2015 06:05
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle
Something I would like to share about allopathic cures. A famous doctor in San Francisco area boasts of only ONE cured patient in over 30 years of practice! I know this is a true statement because his son told me this.

Paulette

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To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:35:28 +0100
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle
Allopathy suppresses or palliates. Very rare for any true cure.....................show me an example of allopathic cure.
Sheri

At 08:00 AM 8/18/2015, you wrote:
There is also allopathic. Healing (cure), palliation, Allopathy, - these are all distinct categories, with clear definition.

Paul.
Sent from Samsung Mobile

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:36 am
by Irene de Villiers
I suppose it depends how you define palliation.
To me it simply means "to make it feel better without any view to healing." That applies whatever is done to achieve the result, and does not always require it be opposite.
It is often true that one can treat (homeopathically, not allopathically) the mental level but not the physical level.

In terminal cases, which I have a lot to do with, the life force of the victim is extremely weak.
They may need help to have a kinder passing, however that may be achieved. The very high potencies wil tend to assist the mental level while suppressing physical, and that is exactly what is wanted in many cases.

Whether part is homeopathic and what part allopathic is not important, the important part is being able to palliate.
I do not want to miss the wood for the trees by being pedantic about whether it is true homeopqty. If I had tp dp war dances in a bikini at my weight to achieve a result I needed, I would no hesitate, depite the visual pollution:-)

The Law of Similars will act wherever it can.
It might not be the best or only option in a case in process of death, just as most homepopaths will accept general anesthesia before major surgery, which also is not homepathic, but is the best known option for the occasion.
Not what I do; in a terminal case in process of dying, Ars is chosen over other appropriate remedies based on overall case similarity to say Ars versus Lach for this, but it is by no means chosen as a simillimum. I choose it for its special ability at high potency to separate mental from physical, and the case simlarity overall is enough to assure its effectiveness for this purpose.
I question that, in this usage.
I consider that remedies have many more uses than the formal single use described classically for anihilating illness via the Law of Similars.

The use of Ars, Lach and a few others in cases in process of dying, is passed down from many generations of homeopaths in my family, via 4th edition homeopahty though I do not know where/when it originates. The tomes in my cousin's library have the notes in the margin about it rather than in the text. It certainly is amazing to watch the palliation afforded in actual use.
I see no "warning" needed for this palliative use.
I hasten to add it is for use during actual dying - not for "terminal cases" - but for thos who are approaching death imminently and irrevocably, an who are suffering (needlessly).
There is no aggravation in this usage. Death is not speeded up, it is merely without suffering.
IF the remedy was mistakenly used in a recoverable case, (as has happened for at least one homeopath I know of) it causes improvement, not aggravation.
THis usage shows no signs of vital force depletion.
If it fif, it would speed the death process. But that does not happen.
There may not be one. Individuals die because they just weaken and die. It is not always a disease process, or not a reognizable one unless you call ageing a disease.
I understand your theory, it just is not how this works in practice. Aggravation is not there.
Homeopathy has more strings to its bow than perhaps is yet realized:-)
What warning?
Not what actually happens though in a dying case.
My experiecne with people, cats and multiple other species is all the same:-) It canot be "different".
It is important to know that cats and humans are NOT different, nor are any other species and even plants, in the matter of HOW homepathy works.
You can have a bee hitting a windscreen, a car driving over a plant in the driveway, a person with a bashed knee or a working elephant with an overworked trunk, and all need the same remedy - Arnica - for FEELING bashed.
The fact that their metabolsim and physiology is totally different is irrelevant where energy remedies are concerned.

Ars in the dying process produces no aggravations.
It may produce them in a terminal patient who is not currently dying, I do not know, as I would not consider the use of Ars 10M there nor any other high potency remedy. It would not be appropriate. In my book the life to be looked after need quality whatever stage it is at, and terminal cases who are not in process of deah need a quite different approach forlife quality, to an indivudal in process of dying.
References in my cousin's library of books are where this is so well documented, (she is in Joburg and was my first teacher for homeopathy) but that was 1984 when I read it, and sice then I have seen the wonderfl effect on a regular basis in practice. I have not thought to try and explain it in terms of VF etc - but the effect is there.
I have only been so thankful to be able to offer the peaceful end - especially in animals who are almost never given proper consideration when terminal, much less when dying.
True but at the end it often is not able to help enough, and/or the requisite potency is not to hand or easy to make fast.
Much depends on the situation at hand. But there are some very cruel ways to die. Many deaths wil proceed kindly without any help or with local remedy or ICT remedy (genetically matched to inherited traits - the "Innate Constitutional Type" system aka ICT that I have developed based on ALL inherited traits, not only genes - it is not yet published bar some examples).
The high Ars/Lach/etc is only used where other options are not better - so only where appropriate - never a "routine" or protocol approach. Always individualized.

I am sorry that Kent or woever wrote it, thinks high Ars a bad idea.
It does not aggravate even if that is the theory.
Why not?
With no real thought applied - I am not sure:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:12 am
by Roger B
Is this the consensus science that I have heard so much about, which is no science at all.

I have found cell salts to be very helpful health-wise. So have many other people. So what is the problem?

Is the problem that cell salts have on provings?

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:00:09 +0100
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle

shall we have a vote?
Sheri

At 03:49 PM 8/19/2015, you wrote:
________________________________
Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://homeopathycures.wordpress.com/ & http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:14 am
by Roger B
"I doubt you know very many homeopaths or those of us here deeply enough to know what we think."

Probably.

But my very distant perspective does allow me to see that homeopathy is stuck in the past and is turning off patients who don't get healings after spending lots of money. You don't see those people because they don't come back to see you. I am related to one, and I am still hurting because of her disappointment with her experience, and she hasn't said a word to me about it. She is that kind of sweet person.

Roger
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:02:30 +0100
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle

Not sure why we think we don't use computers? There are many programs and most of us use them (or use the rep, mm and charts easily)

But it is more than putting symptoms in a computer for chronic conditions. You have to use your brain to figure out what are the key symptoms, not just put them all in a computer.

I doubt you know very many homeopaths or those of us here deeply enough to know what we think.
Sheri

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:52 am
by Soroush Ebrahimi
Dear Roger

In treating acute cases, in most cases, the prominence of each presenting symptom (physical, mental and emotional) are important. Simple observations can lead one to the correct remedy. Like a mental symptom in the case of a woman in hospital and expected to die after an acute problem can lead one to the Similimum. In that case, the woman was heard saying: "O God, I am dying, but please look after my children." (Ars Alb). She went home after two days! (Well done to Iranian colleagues.)
Treating chronic cases depends on many factors and can be a real detective work.

It primarily depends on how well the homeopath and the patient connect, the training and observational powers of the homeopath and whether the patient tells ALL the points that are relevant to the case.

Without the full flow of information, one would get partial information and miss the absolutely significant symptom (centre of the case) which is the key to finding the correct remedy.

Without the correct remedy, the chances of a cure are obviously limited.
So both the patient and the homeopath need to be 'patient' and persevere in the some cases. It requires the patient to go back to the homeopath and to advise what has happened so that if necessary the homeopath can modify the prescription.
And sometimes one's gut feelings help. After taking the case of a lady, I had a feeling that not all was told to me.

So I said to her, on your way here, what did you decide not to tell me? She looked shocked and then told me the centre of her case. :-)
And you get some weird and wonderful cases - one was a lady who came to see me and her presenting symptom was that on every Sunday evening at about 8 pm her right knee would start to hurt.
I spent a long time trying to find the cause of this pain, any history etc and my multiple questions of "what else?" was left without an answer. I felt I really had nothing to prescribe on was about to apologise and say sorry I cannot help you when I remembered a great advice from one of my teachers. He had taught that if you feel your case in not complete, reflect from your note what the patient has told you. Well within a minute she stopped me and told me various mental and emotional symptoms which were the key to her case.
She rang me a month later to complain that her night sleep had become disturbed. I asked "How many nights?" Last night and the night before.

I then asked how is your knee - there was a long silence (as if she was trying to work out what I was on about) and then said "Oh it is fine."

(Night sleep problem was also resolved!)
I know in US homeopaths charge a high fee - but that does not apply internationally. And I would strongly recommend the return to the homeopath for further consultation.
Best wishes

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 19 August 2015 19:31
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle
"I doubt you know very many homeopaths or those of us here deeply enough to know what we think."

Probably.

But my very distant perspective does allow me to see that homeopathy is stuck in the past and is turning off patients who don't get healings after spending lots of money. You don't see those people because they don't come back to see you. I am related to one, and I am still hurting because of her disappointment with her experience, and she hasn't said a word to me about it. She is that kind of sweet person.

Roger
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:02:30 +0100
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: cell salts bottle
Not sure why we think we don't use computers? There are many programs and most of us use them (or use the rep, mm and charts easily)

But it is more than putting symptoms in a computer for chronic conditions. You have to use your brain to figure out what are the key symptoms, not just put them all in a computer.

I doubt you know very many homeopaths or those of us here deeply enough to know what we think.
Sheri

Re: cell salts bottle

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:07 pm
by Irene de Villiers
Seriously?
You mean like when people voted that airplanes would not fly or the earth is flat or some people would make good presidents?

No thanks.
There is plenty of science behind Schuessler's work on cell salts.
And plenty of case experience as well.
Inquiring minds will read it and use it.
Others will scoff, it is their loss, as with the other decisions made by vote.

Namaste,
Irene
________________________________
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."