Minutus

Your personal discomfort is appreciated but shouldn't stifle everyone
from gaining valuable insight from a patient, student and practitioner
perspective. I'm "pushing" people for factual info, the methods of Dr.
Ramakrishnan, his successes and failures. I value opinions but not
making decisions solely based on them.

The only facts I have so far is from Dr. Ramakrishnan's own info:

"Ramakrishnan has done a study on 900 cases of proven diabetics and
following are the observations: 1) Age: From 40 to 62 years. 2) Sex:
Male – 608, Female – 292. 3)Living Condition: Nearly 90% of them
in life styles with stress and strain of the urban life coupled with
sedentary habits. 4) Complications: They have all had one or other of
the complications, such as Cardio Vascular or Neuropathic and so on. 5)
Period of Treatment: 3 months to 18 months. 6) Number of cases where
blood sugar was normalized: 630 out of 900, the rest have been drop outs
at various stages of treatment from 3 months and above. 7) Number of
cases where a follow up for a further period of 5 years done: 406 –
The reviewing was by determining the post prandial blood sugar (two
hours after meal) once in 3 months."

That's impressive and I assume it's the truth. Maybe the questions
should be, Has anyone cured diabetes using purely classical non-protocol
methods? Has anyone had nearly as much success with diabetes? Why
not use protocols if they show repeated success? Can these protocols
have long term negative consequences over time?

I hope you don't really feel the members here are so weak-kneed they can
be "pushed" into making decisions then publically stating them based on
my request.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "tamarque@..." wrote:
like
should
and you
formula to
sense of
practitioners who
cases
there are
someone and
and how
example,
a
of a particular
successfully.
through, and

There's another kind:

Some homeopaths are in it to be *healers* - and teachers of others in
hopes they will also be healers.
The "good living" is there but it is emotional - not physical - as
they live modestly, the "toys" bought with dollars being for those
with time on their hands, not those busy with healing work. This kind
of homeopath makes a GOOD living out of homeopathy.
And as we learn in homeopathy, mind symptoms matter more than
physical. So these homeopaths live modestly, but have mentally huge
rewards for hard work. They also have bills to pay and try to make
ends meet - but the MAIN goal is GOOD healing not "a high standard of
living".

It's a high standard of healing.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Because a good homeopath never treats diabetes?
One treats individuals:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Thank you for your indepth response, please see comments:
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "McPhee Family" wrote:

He prescribed one constitutional remedy and one MT just for diabetes acutely.

I don't know if he adheres to a fixed protocol of remedies for the next 2 years. That's why I began this discussion, to ask if anyone knows. I took the MT for a month before starting the constitutional. I've yet to notice any plus or minus from the diabetes MT remedy. Taking the constitutional dry at 200C x 12 in one day, YOU FEEL IT!

Thankfully, I know what to do or my head would have exploded.
Well, this remedy, a cell salt in 6x, taken 2x/day for 2 months, I only tried a cell salt once before and felt lousy, not sure how one may react to them. I will try it one more time in the near future.

Agreed. But no one is saying he violates classical homeopathy and Hahnnemann. When do you cross the line from experimenting classically to being a maverick? I posted his success stats in another response. He is showing a good success rate which looks more than chance. His totals look greater than the total of published cured cases for diabetes, are there any?

The absent minded professor? Honestly, he hardly took any notes on the computer, I actually sent him much more than when I saw him in person!

Yes, you make great points, but I've had many homeopaths, one great one, over that last 12 years. I am trying to make a last grasp at homeopathy before giving up and living solely on drugs, herbs, vitamins, acupuncture, etc. Those all help, but can't cure. Maybe many chronic inherited diseases are just incurable? My absolute last chance is gastric bypass surgey because it is showing high degree of diabetes remission immediately after surgery. Has to do with the intestines and gut hormones both being reduced. The surgery is being mainstreamed for thin and obese and expected to be used greatly for type 2 diabetes in the future. I know quite a few who have had it and diabetes stopped next day.

Absolutely. But as they say in the Lottery, you gotta be in it to win it. Just based on numbers, Dr. Ramakrishnan seems to beat all homeopaths combined when it comes to claim of diabetes cure. The way he practices may be shoddy.

Those are great suggestions, if you're a newbie. I'm an oldbie with plenty of homeopathic treatment behind me. Even the great ones aren't infallible. I really didn't expect that I'd be in what seems protocol based prescribing on a timetable. As I posted, who with diabetes wouldn't want to see Dr. Ramakrishnan just given his buildup at NCH for their 2007 conference? If NCH represents "Homeopathy in the USA", and they have a diabetes "expert" speak, isn't one to assume he must be pretty good? Is NCH known to feature experimental homeopathic treatment as keynote speakers?
But isn't this how they practice in India? It may be bad in the USA or Europe but standard and good in India. Isn't that why so many homeopaths go to study at clinics there? Dr. Ramankrishnan's style may just be representative of Indian culture.

Thank you for your time in composing an informative and caring response. My responses to you and others helps me think out loud in figuring out how to proceed. Everyone's opinion is worthwhile and provides a think tank experience. Bring it all out, good/bad, nice/ugly, then sort through it.

NO, Don't give up! With homeopathy there's hope because there are many
ways to practice it, both classically and not. This is why I'm "torn".
Unfortunately, my current finances may provide a different course.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "McPhee Family"
wrote:
follow a set protocol, is not likely to engage in much patient
interaction, wants to charge $350 or $250 every two months and spent
more time repeatedly asking me if I deposited $$ into his checking
account vs. feedback on my aggravations, I'm still torn whether to keep
this going.

True, but that's nice in theory. As you should know, every day you
have diabetes you are slowly damaging your eyes, kidneys, heart,
blood vessels. Even a diabetic in tight blood glucose control still
does not have "normal" blood glucose responses.

Taking one's constitutional remedy, while providing many positives,
does not immediately cure diabetes. What Dr. Ramakrishnan seems to
be doing is treating constitutionally 4th ed style AND the acute
problems of diabetes possibly with prevention. So, the MT he
prescribed, which treats blood glucose overflowing into urine should
not conflict with constitutional treatment.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
Homeopath.)

i beg your pardon! i have not stiffled commentary, however, you have
gotten opinions and are continuing to push for something beyond
open discussion. that is my discomfort. i think it time that you think about
all that has been offerred to you and make a decision as to what you
will do. if you don't like the way you are being treated, go elsewhere.
i don't know how much more simply it can be put.
i, like everyone else, wishes you well and encourages you to find
someone you are comfortable with.
tanya

I've only taken it in one potency, 200C. Aggravation is not the
correct term, taking too much dry in a short time is the problem,
causing rapid overstimulation and insomnia. That's not an
aggravation of existing symptoms which can happen over time as the
remedy is working. I'd have to take it again, dry, to see if that
repeats. Most likely anyone taking a constitutional in too much a
dose could experience the same thing. The wet dose was just placing
the same amount of dry dose in water and stirring a few times before
each repetiton. A definite lessening of intensity though still
positive effects. I'm awaiting the aggravations as it's only been
less than two weeks.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
but
the
thoughts...
claims
worth it
a
the
she
constitutional
potency.
current
went from
react to
that

Hi Luise,
I live in a crowded corner of the UK, not far from London. Hospital savings schemes help people pay for appointments but probably less than half of my patients are members. Imagine it is the same for others.
It is true that in the last few years colleges have been churning out homeopaths in a big way (I would have quoted setting up a college as another way to earn money from homepathy if so many hadn't gone bust this last couple of years). Most local homeopaths do work part-time, as a life-style choice or because they haven't the business to go full time.
However, at any point in the last 30 years and even now I could name homeopaths in my corner of England who work full time in clinic and must, by my reckoning, be doing pretty well financially! Even if you only see 20 people a week and charge £35.00GB, you are earning a very good part-time income. If you are reasonably efficient and fully booked you can see that many people in 2 eight-hour days and still have a bit time for phone calls. Working a five day week like other professionals do (and they, too, bring home work usually), and perhaps sticking to half hour appointments - well, you can do the maths! Whether you would want to live and work like that is another matter but many of our patients work those hours.
The problem arises when people feel they can't prescribe in less than 11/2 or 2 hours plus homework. To charge realistically for that amount of time they have to price themselves out of the market - and the pressure will really be on to 'sort out' the patients they do have quickly. People work hard for their money and often don't have a lot to spare.
Theresa
Luise wrote:
This applies in an area where there are relatively few homeopaths, I
presume?. Or where the health insurance pays for them?

In Germany by now the streets are plastered with them and the schools
are turning out more and more each year.

Only the private insurance companies pay for non-MD homeopaths.
Relatively few people are privately insured, the self-employed and
those with an income from employment over a certain amount.Most
patients of non-MD homeopaths are from the group of those
privately insured people. It appears there are not enough of them to
go around - after all, not that high a percentage wants to go to
(classical) homeopaths. I at least do not know of any non-MD homeopath
(of the MD's I know nothing in this respect) who makes his/her living
entirely from their practice.

While, of course, Irene, Rosemary, Fran .. are quite correct in what
they said about the patients' paying for the consultation and not for
results - this is from the view of the homeopaths. It is their
prerogative to see it thus.

The patients who are not covered by insurance see it differently - and
this is THEIR prerogative.

This was brought home to me many years ago. I gave a talk on classical
homeopathy for some group and said: "people think nothing about buying
a spoiler for their car, but when it comes to their health, they do
not want to pay anything for it." A woman answered: "True, but when
you buy a spoiler you know what you get, when you go to a homeopath
you do not!"

So definitely everything follows the rules of the market - but it cuts
both ways. I only wish people were aware of this fact before they run
themselves into debt for studying homeopathy and setting up a
practice. Many of them are not:-( (And the schools do not tell them -
for obvious reasons)

Regards

Luise

Hi Shannon,
There are trolls and ill-wishers on any list on any topic, in any
group.

When people in those groups let the trolls determine what should be
discussed and what not they arre giving them an inappropriate amount
of power.

There are two ways of handling the public discussions of any group.

One is: We have nothing to hide. We know that we, like every other
group, have weaknesses, We acknowledge them openly, try to improve
them where possible. Some we may not be aware of, and are grateful for
anyone pointing the latter out to us. We are also grateful for
accusations that may not apply, since that gives us a chance to answer
those accusations and set them right.

The other one is: We only show our positive aspects. Weaknesses are
denied, accusations ignored.

In a larger context, the former is what happens in democracy,
freedom of press etc, the latter is how it works in dictatorships.

It is up to everyone to decide for themselves which group will to
intelligent people appear more credible.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========