OT Microwaving water

[Irene de Villiers]

Hennie, It works with dipole molecules only, namely ones with their electron chgrhes unevenly distributed so it causes the jolecule to have a positie charge in oneplace and a negatie one lesewhere. For example water has slight negative charge on the Oxygen atom and a slight positive charge on each of the two hydrogen atoms, and these are arranged at an angle.
As an electric field arrives at the molecule, it also has a positive and negative direction of field, so the molecule of water alighs with that field with positibe to negative near each other - the molecle is magnetically attracted to do that.
When the alternating current changes, then the magnetic field flux (the flow direction of the magnetic field) chnges to the opposite way, and the water molecules snap around to realign the other way. In this way, all dipole molecules move back and forth as the current constantly changes direction with the alternating current. It changes direction 4,9 billion times per second at the optimum microwave effective frequency of 2450 MHz.

Conversion of motion energy of the moilecles to heat energy works this way: The system behaves like an electric capacitor connected to an alternating voltage. If the microwave frequency is very high, (as opposed to the ideal frequency for heating) the molecule groups will rotate so sluggishly (in relative terms) that they do not at all align with the magnetic field – no energy transfer takes place. In the right frequency interval for microwaving food, the molecule groups will (statistically) still rotate but with some lag, which depends on their mass inertia. All energy will then not be recovered when the field direction is reversed as the alternating current reverses. By the law of not losing any energy in a system, but merely converting it to another form, a part of that rotaion energy will instead be permanently given off to the molecule groups, which will heat up due to a general net increase in their movement. (Technical name is dipole relaxation as the molecule heated up will flex less.) Sucessive microwave absorption occurs down to about a depth of 20 mm in materials with a high water content.

Hope that helps.
...Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Hennie Duits]

Thank you, but I was afraid this would be a possible answer/explanation.

"which will heat up due to a general net increase in their movement."

This is exactly the point: Why would that ('net increase in their
movement') generate heat? How does that work? We all know friction
causes heat, so (maybe) these agitated molecules have more friction
amongst each other, but that still leaves the/my question unanswered -
*how* does that result in *heat*? (And I really mean it: *How*?)

Hennie

Irene de Villiers furryboots@icehouse.net [minutus] schreef op 11-3-2015
om 0:57:
l flex less.) Sucessive microwave absorption occurs down to about a depth of 20 mm in materials with a high water content.

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Hennie

Friction causes heat - Rub your hands together and feel.

When these molecules are agitate by the microwaves (electromagnetic
radiation), they turn extremely fast and encounter friction in the process
so a lot of heat is generated.

Rgds
Soroush

[Roger B]

Irene said: "It changes direction 4,9 billion times per second at the optimum microwave effective frequency of 2450 MHz." Notice that 2450 megahertz is exactly one half 4.9 billion times per second. In other words, when the first half of the wave passes by/thru the dipole, the molecule moves say left, and when the second half of the molecule passes by/thru the dipole, the molecule moves right. So the movement is twice the frequency of the microwave wave. { Yes, I said microwave wave and I meant it. (:->) }

Roger

[Roger B]

Hennie, at the atomic level, movement is heat. Atoms are tiny self-contained electromagnetic fields. When they bounce against each other, they generate non-contained electromagnetic waves. Try it by rubbing your hands together vigorously.

Roger

[pb000014]

Heat is energy.
Agitation transfers energy to particles. Kinetic energy, so they vibrate and collide more. This energy gets transferred to other particles such as the glass bulb and then the Mercury in the thermometer which increases the Kinetic energy in the Mercury. It rises, showing a higher reading. Here you experience a new reading, a higher temperature . If the Kinetic energy gets to a sensory nerve, such as in your hand, it will feel "hot". Because that is your experience of the change in Kinetic energy.
Regards,
Paul
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[Irene de Villiers]

It is about energy. We start with the matter in the universe, made of atoms and molecules - which all has energy and that energy makes it move - either spinning about or colliding with other molecules or atoms. No atom or molecule is still. All are moving all the time, and there is energy involved in making them move.
If they have a lot of energy they move fast and if they have a little energy they move slowly, but they all move.
One atom or molecule can give some energy to another to make it move faster, and the it will move slower.
For example the sun can heat some molecules making them move faster (and the sun will have a tiny bit less eneregy as a result) and they will then be hotter.
The more molecule moves, due to having more energy added to it, the hotter it is.

No energy gets "lost" anywhere, it just gets converted from one version of energy to another version.Suc as from sun energy to sunburn, or from gasoline to a hot moving engine and tires, or from muscle energy to heat energy when yo rub your hands togetgher.
It is all about making molecules more active and thus hotter.
Cooking water in a pot is the same. Electrical energy causes heating (speeding up) of the metal molecules of the pot
which in turn transfer this energy to the water in the pot by making the water molecles move faster and thus be hotter.
Friction is one mechanism for developing heat energy by causing molecules to move faster. It does so by the MOTION of one substance against another. The MOTION (involves energy which is transferred) pushes and adds energy and makes the molecules move more and thus be hotter. Energy flows into the area and is lost elsewhere. If there is slippage instead of motion against each other, there is not so much rleative motion and so not so much energy transfer to the other substance's molecules so there is less heating...such as when you add a lubricant between two smooth surfaces. Thus machinists drilling holes in cannons needed huge amounts of cooling water due to the friction MOTION energy being transerred to the huge drill bits, and which energized the bits enough to melt them. The cannon barrel also got red hot from motion causing energy transfer and heating of cannon barrel molecules.
The energy came from whatever or whoever was turning the drill bits, and the MOTION energy (friction) energized the molecules which moved faster and therefore were hotter.
Energy is not created, it is just transferred from one place to another.
For example if you bounce a ball, it bounces less and less each bounce. What is happening is that friction is causing the bouncing energy to be converted to heat energy. If you use a good enough instrument you could measure the ball before and after bouncing it and the ball would be warmer after being bounced. If there was no heat conversion and the ball still had all the energy at the same temperature, the ball would bounce for ever.... but friction resistance always causes energy to be transferred to moecules which thus move faster and are hotter - the ball molecules move faster with increased heat after being bounced, and the bounce stops due to the energy not there any more for bouncing as it was converted to speeding/heating the molecules.

The more molecules are made to move, the hotter they become.
Friction - force-motion against another surface - is one way to induce that increase in moleclar motion causing molecules to be hotter.
Alternating microwave energy can force dipole molecules to move faster against each other (motion aainst each other at molecular level, generating energy and thus more motion and thus more heat) and thus the molecles involved in the friction are hotter. The energy to increase the motion comes from an electricity source and is transferred via microvawe emf to the molecules as increased motion thus increased heat, while reducing the supply of electrical energy.
Any better?
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Hennie Duits]

First off - all of you not interested in this subject - skip/delete it.

And now that you've decided not to skip this: It feels like several of
you are trying to explain to me what I already know (nevertheless thank
you for that), but probably, this is due to the fact that I'm not
phrasing my question(s) as I should.

I'll try again:
Yes, if you 'add' energy to molecules/atoms (by means of a magnetron
device, by bouncing a tennis ball, or whatever), these molecules/atoms
get 'energised', meaning their motion increases (well, at least, that's
how science sees it, for now). And as a 'result' (maybe not the right
term) these atoms/molecules generate (maybe not the right term)
electromagnetic waves.

So far, so good. But out of the total possible spectrum of all, so
'generated' electromagnetic waves (from gamma radiation to radio waves
and everything in between, including UV, visible light, infra red), why
would, in general, most, if not all, of this added energy be 'radiated'
as 'heat'? (Why not as some sort of sparks, or UV light, or other
electromagnetic wave manifestations, or a combination of several..)

So far, but not so good: "at the atomic level, movement *is* heat." (Roger).
I feel this cannot be. Movement cannot be equal to ('*is*') heat. Heat
can be a result, or manifestation, of movement, but cannot be equal to
it. In general, things cannot be both their manifestation *and* their
essence. Just like a pulsatilla plant isn't 'pulsatilla' - a pulsatilla
plant (to me) is a (unique) manifestation of the pulsatilla
principle/essence (or whatever).

For that it's worth.

Hennie

Roger B rogerbird2@hotmail.com [minutus] schreef op 11-3-2015 om 3:44:

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Hennie,

I'm not sure where you have made the leap from kinetic energy to generation of electromagnetic wages. Yes if an object is heated *enough*, it may generate on the electromagnetic spectrum, but that is not what heat is; heat is only about the movement of the particles -- not the generation of *other* particles/waves (such as make up the electromagnetic spectrum).

When an object is emitting in the electromagnetic spectrum, I think we'd have to say there is a presumably infinitesimal amount of energy (and therefore also mass) being lost; but this does not happen from simple kinetic motion of the molecules, as in moderate temperatures.

This is an area where Irene's distinction between what something "is" and what it "does" would come into play; heat does radiate *if* there are e.g. air molecules to pick up and pass along the warm (motion of the molecules), but it is not considered a form of radiation (is not a word applied to any part of the electromagnetic spectrum).

I hope that makes sense…
Shannon

[pb000014]

What we experience as heat is the transmission of mostly infrared, which is part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is radiated by vibratiing objects/molecules and when received by other particles causes an increase in their vibration or motion.
Atoms can never touch each other to cause an effect. They cause an effect by the transmission of energy by an electromagnetic mode.
If a particle is at say room temperature and is compared to ice, it will feel hotter, as it cools the ice will increase it's particle motion, ie become hotter and melt. Two objects at subzero temperatures will undergo the same dynamics, although we won't really be able to tell which feels hotter, other than using a thermometer.
The effect of one object on the other is through electromagnetic transmission, which is an energy transmission. We talk of kinetic and potential energy when referring to concepts of motion etc.
Things affecting other things without touching, in a dynamic way? Hey, that sounds like hahnemann - how did he get on this list?
Regards,
Paul
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