so, with great trepidation i reenter this fray (arms over head). i should have put OT in the subject line from the beginning, which would probably have helped some. i didn't do that because i'm thinking the concept must be homeopathic. i was hoping for an interesting discussion of ideas, not a big fight.
my homeopath has a huge practice and i respect her immensely. she was the one who suggested i watch the documentary. i asked her if she finds a correlation between suppression of the childhood diseases, and cancer, and she said oh yes, 100%. she said look at who gets what cancers and find out which diseases they've had. honestly we didn't have time to discuss it more. i intuitively feel there is a connection, so i wanted to ask for any experience or impressions you all might have.
the intuitive feeling i have about a connection is heightened by this bit about some tumors resolving when they're injected with viruses. ok, maybe viruses just have some capacity to do this, that nobody knew about before. but in the documentary they talk about some instances where they inject the viruses into the general vicinity of the tumor and the viruses gravitate to the tumor. they are not attracted to the nondiseased areas of the body.
doesn't this suggest some sort of homeopathic relationship? i think it does, but i don't understand its nature. if i had a huge database of patients perhaps i'd be in a better position to put together some hypothesis, but i don't, so i figured i'd put it out to you all. if you could all refrain from attack, that'd be great. if you're not interested in this topic, just delete. i have now put 'OT' into the subject line so please find comfort there.
i will reiterate that i'm curious, very curious, about the possible role of nosodes here. Morbillinum, Malandrinum, who knows what else? and how to determine which cancers might have a relationship with which nosodes. I should say that i am a supporter of Isaac Golden's work, where he found that taking the homeopathic nosode for a childhood disease reduced the susceptibility of the person to that disease. this suggests to me that introducing these nosodes in the homeopathic treatment of cancer could be helpful.
PLEASE BE GENTLE. you guys collectively are scary.
________________________________
From: "Irene de Villiers furryboots@icehouse.net [minutus]"
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2015 6:07 PM
Subject: Rbe civil please - was : [Minutus] IRENE - killing cancer with viruses
Please stop associating my name with any subject for discussion.
Here it is added to a topic in which I have not even participayted.
People are NOT topics.
.....Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
OT - killing cancer with viruses
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
Hi Rachel,
Thanks for wading bravely back in.
See below:
Did you by any chance post a link for that, or could you? (Or was it on plain ol' TV…)
There could be many reasons for this association; suppression is not good for the immune system! And cancer is, at least in part, an immune disorder. Apparently causes can include toxicities (internal and external).
That's very interesting. I assume, though, that this applied to specific viruses, not to viruses in general? Do you remember?
Well, the definition of a homeopathic relationship is, something which *if given in appropriately small or minute amounts* can cure the same conditions it might cause *if given in excess*. So -- would an overdose of those same viruses also *cause* cancer? If not, they it is not technically homeopathic -- but that doesn't mean it isn't a really nice bit of discovery, and useful therapeutic tool!
One hallmark of homeopathic treatment of disease (acute or chronic) is that it simply neutralizes the dis-order, leaving behind no side-effects except for increased health and wellbeing. And normally homeopathic treatment is done *in context of the whole person*. Cancer is not a local disease; it's an "ultimate" on a usually long chain of usually chronic disorder, and if the underlying factors aren't addressed, then cancer is likely to develop again, in a different spot -- same problem as with surgery, though I will say this *sounds* much more user-friendly than surgery, and certainly even more so compared with chemo or radiation!
Carcinosin I think would be the main one? (Sadly I'm not familiar with the two you mention, but will look them up.)
There are now a number of different Carcinosin preparations; and *certainly* carcinosin is not the only relevant remedy!
I was told years back that *usually* Carcinosin comes into play before cancer has developed, but once it's in evidence, other remedies take precedence at the start.
Yes, fascinating work, I agree!
Yep, again I agree...
Thanks for wading bravely back in.
See below:Did you by any chance post a link for that, or could you? (Or was it on plain ol' TV…)
There could be many reasons for this association; suppression is not good for the immune system! And cancer is, at least in part, an immune disorder. Apparently causes can include toxicities (internal and external).
That's very interesting. I assume, though, that this applied to specific viruses, not to viruses in general? Do you remember?
Well, the definition of a homeopathic relationship is, something which *if given in appropriately small or minute amounts* can cure the same conditions it might cause *if given in excess*. So -- would an overdose of those same viruses also *cause* cancer? If not, they it is not technically homeopathic -- but that doesn't mean it isn't a really nice bit of discovery, and useful therapeutic tool!
One hallmark of homeopathic treatment of disease (acute or chronic) is that it simply neutralizes the dis-order, leaving behind no side-effects except for increased health and wellbeing. And normally homeopathic treatment is done *in context of the whole person*. Cancer is not a local disease; it's an "ultimate" on a usually long chain of usually chronic disorder, and if the underlying factors aren't addressed, then cancer is likely to develop again, in a different spot -- same problem as with surgery, though I will say this *sounds* much more user-friendly than surgery, and certainly even more so compared with chemo or radiation!
Carcinosin I think would be the main one? (Sadly I'm not familiar with the two you mention, but will look them up.)
There are now a number of different Carcinosin preparations; and *certainly* carcinosin is not the only relevant remedy!
I was told years back that *usually* Carcinosin comes into play before cancer has developed, but once it's in evidence, other remedies take precedence at the start.
Yes, fascinating work, I agree!
Yep, again I agree...-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
I shall enter this topic for the first time.
The concept involves using some known techniques of specific viruses, to enter cancer cells. The researchers call it a cancer vaccine in the making. It is still at the theoretical and experimental stage.
I do not know how they plan to tell the virus which are cancer cells and which not, but attacking a cancer cell to kill it is not homeopathy.
Not just cancer, but any chronic disease which there is no thymus to fight off.
The vaccines and drugs damage the thymus, and THAT is what causes the problems with chronic diseases.
Animals are vaccinated a lot more than children and you see the harm there more easily, as they have no thymus left even when just kittens.
Until recently the leadig medical cause of death in cats was kidney disease. It is now cancer, mainly lymphoma.
There is no correlation between a specific childhood disease and a specific cancer or chronic illness. The damage to the thymus makes the individual susceptble to any chronic disease. So the suppression removes the immune system's functionality. The disease they get will depend on their innate constitutional type and their environment combined, not the childhood illness they got.
There may be soe kind of a chemotaxic gradient so that cancer cells attract the virus more than a healthy cell. I can not envision a mechanism by which the virus exclusively attacks malignant cells.
No. Viruses usually attack cells by entering them (using one of several virus mechanisms) and replicate to bursting point. There's nothing homeopathic about a virus attacking a cell.
Those that do it, are not interested in whetehr the rest of us wish them to do it.
Just delete if they do.
What has a nosode got to do with viruses or cancer?
WHy should there be a relatonship to a nosode?
If you suspect miasm, and are at that stage of a treatment, you repertorize for a match, surely.
and to other diseases, see APh 141
You are assuming what is not so - there is no homeopathy involved in viruses for cancer and no reason to assume that any nosode is associated with any cancer either.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
The concept involves using some known techniques of specific viruses, to enter cancer cells. The researchers call it a cancer vaccine in the making. It is still at the theoretical and experimental stage.
I do not know how they plan to tell the virus which are cancer cells and which not, but attacking a cancer cell to kill it is not homeopathy.
Not just cancer, but any chronic disease which there is no thymus to fight off.
The vaccines and drugs damage the thymus, and THAT is what causes the problems with chronic diseases.
Animals are vaccinated a lot more than children and you see the harm there more easily, as they have no thymus left even when just kittens.
Until recently the leadig medical cause of death in cats was kidney disease. It is now cancer, mainly lymphoma.
There is no correlation between a specific childhood disease and a specific cancer or chronic illness. The damage to the thymus makes the individual susceptble to any chronic disease. So the suppression removes the immune system's functionality. The disease they get will depend on their innate constitutional type and their environment combined, not the childhood illness they got.
There may be soe kind of a chemotaxic gradient so that cancer cells attract the virus more than a healthy cell. I can not envision a mechanism by which the virus exclusively attacks malignant cells.
No. Viruses usually attack cells by entering them (using one of several virus mechanisms) and replicate to bursting point. There's nothing homeopathic about a virus attacking a cell.
Those that do it, are not interested in whetehr the rest of us wish them to do it.
Just delete if they do.
What has a nosode got to do with viruses or cancer?
WHy should there be a relatonship to a nosode?
If you suspect miasm, and are at that stage of a treatment, you repertorize for a match, surely.
and to other diseases, see APh 141
You are assuming what is not so - there is no homeopathy involved in viruses for cancer and no reason to assume that any nosode is associated with any cancer either.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
Irene, thank you for your comments. i see your point. however, i'm wondering if you watched the documentary i posted? they implied that you can just inject the virus and the virus would find the tumor - it did not go near the noncancerous cells. that's the message i got anyway, which is different from what you're telling me below. as tho they're drawn to the tumor.
________________________________
From: "Irene de Villiers furryboots@icehouse.net [minutus]"
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] OT - killing cancer with viruses
I shall enter this topic for the first time.
The concept involves using some known techniques of specific viruses, to enter cancer cells. The researchers call it a cancer vaccine in the making. It is still at the theoretical and experimental stage.
I do not know how they plan to tell the virus which are cancer cells and which not, but attacking a cancer cell to kill it is not homeopathy.
Not just cancer, but any chronic disease which there is no thymus to fight off.
The vaccines and drugs damage the thymus, and THAT is what causes the problems with chronic diseases.
Animals are vaccinated a lot more than children and you see the harm there more easily, as they have no thymus left even when just kittens.
Until recently the leadig medical cause of death in cats was kidney disease. It is now cancer, mainly lymphoma.
There is no correlation between a specific childhood disease and a specific cancer or chronic illness. The damage to the thymus makes the individual susceptble to any chronic disease. So the suppression removes the immune system's functionality. The disease they get will depend on their innate constitutional type and their environment combined, not the childhood illness they got.
There may be soe kind of a chemotaxic gradient so that cancer cells attract the virus more than a healthy cell. I can not envision a mechanism by which the virus exclusively attacks malignant cells.
No. Viruses usually attack cells by entering them (using one of several virus mechanisms) and replicate to bursting point. There's nothing homeopathic about a virus attacking a cell.
Those that do it, are not interested in whetehr the rest of us wish them to do it.
Just delete if they do.
What has a nosode got to do with viruses or cancer?
WHy should there be a relatonship to a nosode?
If you suspect miasm, and are at that stage of a treatment, you repertorize for a match, surely.
and to other diseases, see APh 141
You are assuming what is not so - there is no homeopathy involved in viruses for cancer and no reason to assume that any nosode is associated with any cancer either.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
________________________________
From: "Irene de Villiers furryboots@icehouse.net [minutus]"
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] OT - killing cancer with viruses
I shall enter this topic for the first time.
The concept involves using some known techniques of specific viruses, to enter cancer cells. The researchers call it a cancer vaccine in the making. It is still at the theoretical and experimental stage.
I do not know how they plan to tell the virus which are cancer cells and which not, but attacking a cancer cell to kill it is not homeopathy.
Not just cancer, but any chronic disease which there is no thymus to fight off.
The vaccines and drugs damage the thymus, and THAT is what causes the problems with chronic diseases.
Animals are vaccinated a lot more than children and you see the harm there more easily, as they have no thymus left even when just kittens.
Until recently the leadig medical cause of death in cats was kidney disease. It is now cancer, mainly lymphoma.
There is no correlation between a specific childhood disease and a specific cancer or chronic illness. The damage to the thymus makes the individual susceptble to any chronic disease. So the suppression removes the immune system's functionality. The disease they get will depend on their innate constitutional type and their environment combined, not the childhood illness they got.
There may be soe kind of a chemotaxic gradient so that cancer cells attract the virus more than a healthy cell. I can not envision a mechanism by which the virus exclusively attacks malignant cells.
No. Viruses usually attack cells by entering them (using one of several virus mechanisms) and replicate to bursting point. There's nothing homeopathic about a virus attacking a cell.
Those that do it, are not interested in whetehr the rest of us wish them to do it.
Just delete if they do.
What has a nosode got to do with viruses or cancer?
WHy should there be a relatonship to a nosode?
If you suspect miasm, and are at that stage of a treatment, you repertorize for a match, surely.
and to other diseases, see APh 141
You are assuming what is not so - there is no homeopathy involved in viruses for cancer and no reason to assume that any nosode is associated with any cancer either.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
OT - killing cancer with viruses
hi Shannon, thanks for your comments. i did post a link - if you don't have the
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
Mumps is Parotidinum, Malandrinum is a horse disease called "Grease", which I do not know what it is....
There are some new theories about cancer, one that is intriguing is that cancer is in fact a cellular survival mechanism: under the pressure of external and/or internal "toxins" (as a general term), the normal, healthy cells cannot cope any more, so the mechanisms (whatever they are) that block the irregular, uncontrolled cellular division and reproduction are shut down in order to allow the cells that can continue the lineage to reproduce and propagate; it starts with cancer stem cells (CSC), almost normal and slow division, then accelerates into full blown cancer.
This seems to me to leave out the infantile tumours, but there are probably many other mechanisms.
That is why we have successes with "virgin" cases that have not been overloaded with yet more toxic products and way too many failures after chemo and radiotherapy.
I'll see if I can find the publication, quite recent if I remember well....
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
________________________________
There are some new theories about cancer, one that is intriguing is that cancer is in fact a cellular survival mechanism: under the pressure of external and/or internal "toxins" (as a general term), the normal, healthy cells cannot cope any more, so the mechanisms (whatever they are) that block the irregular, uncontrolled cellular division and reproduction are shut down in order to allow the cells that can continue the lineage to reproduce and propagate; it starts with cancer stem cells (CSC), almost normal and slow division, then accelerates into full blown cancer.
This seems to me to leave out the infantile tumours, but there are probably many other mechanisms.
That is why we have successes with "virgin" cases that have not been overloaded with yet more toxic products and way too many failures after chemo and radiotherapy.
I'll see if I can find the publication, quite recent if I remember well....
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
________________________________
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
Here it is:
27/01/2015 Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes of ancient
ancestors Abstract
Physical
Biology IOPscience
http://iopscience.iop.org/14783975/
8/1/015001/pdf/14783975_
8_1_015001.pdf 1/2
Physical Biology > Volume 8 > Number 1
Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes
of ancient ancestors
P C W Davies and C H Lineweaver
Show affiliations
deepthought@asu.edu
Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, Arizona State
University, Tempe, AZ 85287,
USA
Planetary Science Institute, Research School of Astronomy and
Astrophysics & Research School of
Earth Sciences, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT, Australia
P C W Davies and C H Lineweaver 2011 Phys. Biol. 8 015001.
doi:10.1088/14783975/
8/1/015001
Received 24 September 2010, accepted for publication 4 January 2011.
Published 7 February 2011.
2011 IOP Publishing Ltd
Abstract
The genes of cellular cooperation that evolved with multicellularity
about a billion years ago are the
same genes that malfunction to cause cancer. We hypothesize that cancer
is an atavistic condition that
occurs when genetic or epigenetic malfunction unlocks an ancient
'toolkit' of preexisting
adaptations,
reestablishing
the dominance of an earlier layer of genes that controlled looseknit
colonies of only
partially differentiated cells, similar to tumors. The existence of such
a toolkit implies that the
progress of the neoplasm in the host organism differs distinctively from
normal Darwinian evolution.
Comparative genomics and the phylogeny of basal metazoans, opisthokonta
and basal multicellular
eukaryotes should help identify the relevant genes and yield the order
in which they evolved. This
order will be a rough guide to the reverse order in which cancer
develops, as mutations disrupt the
genes of cellular cooperation. Our proposal is consistent with current
understanding of cancer and
explains the paradoxical rapidity with which cancer acquires a suite of
mutuallysupportive
complex
abilities. Finally we make several predictions and suggest ways to test
this model.
Access this article
27/01/2015 Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes of ancient
ancestors Abstract
Physical
Biology IOPscience
http://iopscience.iop.org/14783975/
8/1/015001/pdf/14783975_
8_1_015001.pdf 1/2
Physical Biology > Volume 8 > Number 1
Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes
of ancient ancestors
P C W Davies and C H Lineweaver
Show affiliations
deepthought@asu.edu
Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, Arizona State
University, Tempe, AZ 85287,
USA
Planetary Science Institute, Research School of Astronomy and
Astrophysics & Research School of
Earth Sciences, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT, Australia
P C W Davies and C H Lineweaver 2011 Phys. Biol. 8 015001.
doi:10.1088/14783975/
8/1/015001
Received 24 September 2010, accepted for publication 4 January 2011.
Published 7 February 2011.
2011 IOP Publishing Ltd
Abstract
The genes of cellular cooperation that evolved with multicellularity
about a billion years ago are the
same genes that malfunction to cause cancer. We hypothesize that cancer
is an atavistic condition that
occurs when genetic or epigenetic malfunction unlocks an ancient
'toolkit' of preexisting
adaptations,
reestablishing
the dominance of an earlier layer of genes that controlled looseknit
colonies of only
partially differentiated cells, similar to tumors. The existence of such
a toolkit implies that the
progress of the neoplasm in the host organism differs distinctively from
normal Darwinian evolution.
Comparative genomics and the phylogeny of basal metazoans, opisthokonta
and basal multicellular
eukaryotes should help identify the relevant genes and yield the order
in which they evolved. This
order will be a rough guide to the reverse order in which cancer
develops, as mutations disrupt the
genes of cellular cooperation. Our proposal is consistent with current
understanding of cancer and
explains the paradoxical rapidity with which cancer acquires a suite of
mutuallysupportive
complex
abilities. Finally we make several predictions and suggest ways to test
this model.
Access this article
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
Now that is really interesting! It's sort of a cellular analog of the way that when a person (or other animal) becomes over-stressed, we are prone to reverting to more primitive (less adult, etc.) behaviors. Fight-or-flight and etc.
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
I did not see a documentary and missed your link to one?
I did look up the research in the National library of medicine, most of it this year, on the subject.
Do you have a ref to some other research?
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
I did look up the research in the National library of medicine, most of it this year, on the subject.
Do you have a ref to some other research?
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Jean Doherty
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: OT - killing cancer with viruses
If there was validity in this theory the nosode of Herpes might help in cases of throat cancer . HSV ? one of the causes. Jean