Astrology vs homeopathy

[Irene de Villiers]

WHat?
Explain yourself.....Do you know what Avodagro's law is about?
I suspect not LOL
Yet animals can detect it. So there is a way to detect it, it is not altogether nebulous.
HOW do they do that?
I wish I knew but the fact is they can detect it. So something cats have as detection equipment shall we say, can detect something about the remedy energy, enough to know if the remedy is right or not for them!
My cats are giggling as they know all about remedy detection:-)
Not too sure about your hounds, some do, some maybe not.
Not even over my dead body:-)
I definitely make NO assuptions about what uses which energy.
There are too many ways energy manifests - light, heat, mirowaves, magnetism, electricity, thought, prayer, gravity, pressure, piezo-electric, and the list goes on.
Why assume any two are the same?
I too.
I do not at THIS stage either.
Namaste,
Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Label GMO Florida]

that is probably because i was not replying to you...
vicki
www.LabelGMOFlorida.com
Join us on facebook and twitter
Working to label GMO foods

--------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2015, 5:56 PM
I
don't see what your first sentence has to to do with
anything that I said.
Some
energy on Earth comes from sources other than the Earth:
nuclear eventually comes from the implosion of very large
stars more than 5.678 billion years ago. Geothermal comes
from the gravitational force of the Earth. Muons, which
help us detect nuclear material entering the USA illegally
presumably for the purpose of killing hundreds of thousands
of innocent people, are the result of supernova exploding
millions of lightyears from the Earth.
But all that is beside my point that not all
energy is physical. Since I have experienced it numerous
times and seen the effects of it numerous times and read
numerous books on the subject, I won't be changing my
mind about this any time soon.
There is simply no way that astrology can work
via physical means. And I know that astrology works.
Therefore, for me, astrology works via transcendental
means: energy or higher thingies. I won't be budging
on this any time soon.
Obviously the transcendental energy of
homeopathy has to be anchored to the physical (like our
consciousness is anchored to the physical via our desires),
and there would be some physical expression of that
anchor. I believe that this is what people are seeing when
they talk about structured water and such. And the
structured water per se may be having an effect. And I AM
willing to budge on this opinion. What the heck do I
know?
Roger Bird
To:
minutus@yahoogroups.com
From:
minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan
2015 07:26:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus]
Astrology vs homeopathy
Chemistry would not be chemistry with out energy. (my
only issue with your statement)
And to go a step further, every energy source we have on
earth is a form of/from solar energy.
So the entanglement theory too is applicable.
vicki
www.LabelGMOFlorida.com
Join us on facebook and twitter
Working to label GMO foods

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[Roger B]

Oh, sorry about that. That will make for confusion every time.

Sometimes I get emails with official looking presentation at the bottom, but it cuts off everything that came before, so I don't know exactly what the subject was. I usually don't respond to those emails, but I guess I did this time.

Roger
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 06:07:01 -0800
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy

that is probably because i was not replying to you...
vicki

www.LabelGMOFlorida.com
Join us on facebook and twitter
Working to label GMO foods

--------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2015, 5:56 PM
I
don't see what your first sentence has to to do with
anything that I said.

Some
energy on Earth comes from sources other than the Earth:
nuclear eventually comes from the implosion of very large
stars more than 5.678 billion years ago. Geothermal comes
from the gravitational force of the Earth. Muons, which
help us detect nuclear material entering the USA illegally
presumably for the purpose of killing hundreds of thousands
of innocent people, are the result of supernova exploding
millions of lightyears from the Earth.

But all that is beside my point that not all
energy is physical. Since I have experienced it numerous
times and seen the effects of it numerous times and read
numerous books on the subject, I won't be changing my
mind about this any time soon.

There is simply no way that astrology can work
via physical means. And I know that astrology works.
Therefore, for me, astrology works via transcendental
means: energy or higher thingies. I won't be budging
on this any time soon.

Obviously the transcendental energy of
homeopathy has to be anchored to the physical (like our
consciousness is anchored to the physical via our desires),
and there would be some physical expression of that
anchor. I believe that this is what people are seeing when
they talk about structured water and such. And the
structured water per se may be having an effect. And I AM
willing to budge on this opinion. What the heck do I
know?
Roger Bird
To:
minutus@yahoogroups.com
From:
minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan
2015 07:26:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus]
Astrology vs homeopathy

[Roger B]

"Avogadro’s number, number of units in one mole of any substance (defined as its molecular weight in grams), equal to 6.02214129 × 1023. The units may be electron s, atom s, ion s, or molecule s, depending on the nature of the substance and the character of the reaction (if any)."

I took that from Encyclopaedia Britannica.

The reason that sceptics keep mentioning that number is that the probability of a single atom still being present at a dilution of 30C is roughly 1 in 10 to the 37th power or 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. And, of course, 200C would be 1 in 1 followed by 377 zeros. Even if it were a physical energy that is trapped in the remedy that was being prepared, it would still be reduced by degrees exactly like the numbers typed above. Plus, a physical energy would dissipate, like heat from an oven. Also, the explanation of physical energy or physical atoms does not explain why the remedies get STRONGER the more they are potentized.
The only explanation that works for me is that there is some transcendental "energy" that is extracted out of the original substance that is the result of the potentization. No purely physical explanation makes any sense, whether that explanation is atoms or energy. And when I say "energy", I mean the physical energy whose existence is not scorned by physical scientists who make physical things happen, like bridges, automobiles, nuclear power plants, etc.
I admit that this explanation will not settle down the skeptics. But the skeptics are already on the warpath concerning homeopathy, and honesty forces me to admit to no other explanation other than this one.
It is true that this may be testable, but not using physically dead devices like volt meters, etc. Dogs or bacteria or humans can test this "energy", but non-living, non-conscious devices never will.
This is my position, and I am sticking to it.
Roger Bird

[Label GMO Florida]

but you did not explain how you believe Avogadro’s number is related in any way to Homeopathy. It is just the number of "things" per mole of any given substance.
vicki
www.LabelGMOFlorida.com
Join us on facebook and twitter
Working to label GMO foods

--------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015, 3:40 PM
"Avogadro’s
number, number
of units in one mole
of any substance (defined as its molecular
weight in grams), equal to 6.02214129 ×
1023. The units may be electrons,
atoms,
ions,
or molecules,
depending on the nature of the substance and the character
of the reaction (if any)."
I took that from Encyclopaedia Britannica.
The
reason that sceptics keep mentioning that number is that
the
probability of a single atom still being present at a
dilution of 30C is
roughly 1 in 10 to the 37th power or 1 in
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. And,
of course, 200C would be 1 in 1 followed by 377 zeros.
Even if it were a physical energy that is trapped in the
remedy that was being prepared, it would still be reduced by
degrees exactly like the numbers typed above. Plus, a
physical energy would dissipate, like heat from an oven.
Also, the explanation of physical energy or physical atoms
does not explain why the remedies get STRONGER the more they
are potentized.
The only explanation that
works for me is that there is some transcendental
"energy" that is extracted out of the original
substance that is the result of the potentization. No
purely physical explanation makes any sense, whether that
explanation is atoms or energy. And when I say
"energy", I mean the physical energy whose
existence is not scorned by physical scientists who make
physical things happen, like bridges, automobiles, nuclear
power plants, etc.
I admit that this
explanation will not settle down the skeptics. But the
skeptics are already on the warpath concerning homeopathy,
and honesty forces me to admit to no other explanation other
than this one.
It is
true that this may be testable, but not using physically
dead devices like volt meters, etc. Dogs or bacteria or
humans can test this "energy", but non-living,
non-conscious devices never will.
This is my position, and I
am sticking to it.
Roger Bird

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[Irene de Villiers]

1.
...depends on the MOLECULAR WEIGHT IN GRAMS per your own lookup of the definition.
which is always unknown in a remedy.
So, as I said...when you tell me the molecular weight of Pulsatilla (which is NOT made up of anythig that can be used in an Avogadro way such as "electrons, atoms, ions, or molecules"), I shall stop laughing. That is becasue threse units are NOT volume units.
No it is not.
1 in 10 to a power is a volume.
It is not a relevant unit for Avogadro's law and cannot be used in an Avogadro context, as volume cannot be used.

2.
..... will still have the original substance that was diluted, somewhere among the dilutions.

Avogadro does NOT apply.

Pulsatilla can not be defined by electrons, ions, atoms, or molecules and no manipulation of volume will change that fact. It therefore cannot be used in any Avogadro context.

ALL remedies are made by volume, which is invaid for Avogadro considerations.
Physical energy?
Energy is not physical.
Let's just say energy.
Only if you dilute without succussion .......as has been proved many times over
Energy can be stored. Batteries and magnets and the sun are examples.
As Hahnemann said, it works comparale to magnets.
Rub or file a magnet and the magnetic energy gets stronger...it's how they are made.
Succuss a remedy and the energy gets stronger...it's how they are made.

Read up on how clathrates work:-)
It is a purely physical explanation, and makes perfect sense.
Clathrates are physical enough that the Japanese are already extracting methane from undersea clathrates to burn for energy. How much more "real" can clathrates get?
None so stupid as those who refuse to think.
Hope your glue comes with some kind of guarantee, because it IS possible already, to look at a clathrate and determine and KNOW - what shape of substance caused it to form, whether the substance is still "in residence" or only left the empty clathrate shape with the same emf frequency but no contents.

(Hint: The Japanese were not so happy that so many methane clathrates were only methane-shaped with methane emf frequency - but empty of actual methane. But they physically measured that!)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Roger B]

Let us say that there is 100 X 10^27 molecules in the flask (or whatever they use to potentize.) The first C dilution there will be only 1 X 10^27 molecules in the flask because it is diluted a hundred to 1. That is why it is called C, rather than D or X, which would be a 10 to 1 dilution. The second C dilution there will be only 10^25 molecules in flask. Each dilution is divided by a 100. The third C dilution there will be only 10^23 molecules in the flask. If we keep doing that for a 30C remedy, eventually we will get to 10^1 molecules, which equal 10 molecules, and the next dilution will give us 10^0, which equals 1 molecule. What happens next? We can't have less than zero molecules, so we start talking about what the probability is that the poor remaining molecule got tossed or stayed in the flask. With 30C, there would be 1 chance in 1,000,000 that that poor little molecule stayed in the flask and did not get tossed after the last dilution.

What happens with 200C? There would be one chance in 10^373 that the last molecule remained in the flask. There is simply no imaginable universe where this would happen. I hope that this is not a problem for you or anyone else. It is certainly not a problem for me. I have confidence in my 45 years of homeopathic experience, 220 years of millions of people's homeopathic experience, 185 years of the British Royal family's homeopathic experience. I just chalk it up to us not fully understanding life and the creation. If I limit reality to our physical world, then we have a problem. I don't.

Sincerely,
Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:31:11 -0800
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy

but you did not explain how you believe Avogadro’s number is related in any way to Homeopathy. It is just the number of "things" per mole of any given substance.
vicki

www.LabelGMOFlorida.com
Join us on facebook and twitter
Working to label GMO foods

--------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015, 3:40 PM
"Avogadro’s
number, number
of units in one mole
of any substance (defined as its molecular
weight in grams), equal to 6.02214129 ×
1023. The units may be electrons,
atoms,
ions,
or molecules,
depending on the nature of the substance and the character
of the reaction (if any)."

I took that from Encyclopaedia Britannica.

The
reason that sceptics keep mentioning that number is that
the
probability of a single atom still being present at a
dilution of 30C is
roughly 1 in 10 to the 37th power or 1 in
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. And,
of course, 200C would be 1 in 1 followed by 377 zeros.
Even if it were a physical energy that is trapped in the
remedy that was being prepared, it would still be reduced by
degrees exactly like the numbers typed above. Plus, a
physical energy would dissipate, like heat from an oven.
Also, the explanation of physical energy or physical atoms
does not explain why the remedies get STRONGER the more they
are potentized.

The only explanation that
works for me is that there is some transcendental
"energy" that is extracted out of the original
substance that is the result of the potentization. No
purely physical explanation makes any sense, whether that
explanation is atoms or energy. And when I say
"energy", I mean the physical energy whose
existence is not scorned by physical scientists who make
physical things happen, like bridges, automobiles, nuclear
power plants, etc.

I admit that this
explanation will not settle down the skeptics. But the
skeptics are already on the warpath concerning homeopathy,
and honesty forces me to admit to no other explanation other
than this one.
It is
true that this may be testable, but not using physically
dead devices like volt meters, etc. Dogs or bacteria or
humans can test this "energy", but non-living,
non-conscious devices never will.
This is my position, and I
am sticking to it.
Roger Bird

[Roger B]

Dear Y'all,

According to http://www.universetoday.com/36302/atom ... -universe/

"At this level, it is estimated that there are between 10^78 to 10^82 atoms in the known, observable universe."

This means that if a 200C dilution were done on the ENTIRE UNIVERSE, that there would be only one chance in 10^318 [that would be one 1 followed by 318 zeros) chance that there would be any atoms left in the universe.

I hope that that does not upset anyone. It is merely a fact, and I suggest that you trust your experience and the experience of millions of other people that there is more to life and creation than just physical particles. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I know that there is transcendental reality. I have been there. And homeopathy is for me one of my favorite proofs that there is transcendental reality.

In fact, I would be disappointed if someone eventually proved and demonstrated that homeopathy was entirely physical.
Roger Bird

[Irene de Villiers]

But that is invalid in ALL cases in homepathy.
Volume is used - not molecules. Nobody knows how many molecules or various mixtures of substanes were in the tincture of any homeopathic remedy.

In most cases there is no such thing as a molecule - only mixtures of multiple types of molecule but never a measured number in any case. So you could not sit and count out the molecules of Pulsatilla or snake venom or whateevr even if you wanted to. THAT is the main reason why Avo's number is not valid. The other is that even in cases where molecules COULD be counted, they NEVER are in homeopathy.

I think you also forget that the SIZE of a molecule varies enormously, making nonsense of any comparions of remedies involving dilutions, even if homeopathy always started with molecules, which it never does.

It's not valid to say "IF there were ...then such and such) because that is NEVER the case.

It's a pure invention. You can not start a theory worth anythig, with a pure and invalid invention.
You need to start with something valid:-)

PS Avogadro knew what he was talking about - what HE said was valid.
But you are not using it. It cannot be used for any remedies of any potency.

Namaste,
Irene (still laughing)

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.Furryboots.info
(Info on Feline health, genetics, nutrition & homeopathy)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Roger
In your realm of “This is my position, and I am sticking to it.” You seem not to have understood what anyone on this site is advising you.
During potentisation we dilute and importantly SUCCUSS! It is the latter that adds energy to the substance.

You can try this with bottles of extracts of mint of other perfumed liquids. Have two bottles, success one and compare the perfume with the unsuccussed one.
There are many sources and types of energy in the Universe that we know little about. The exact nature of the energy in homeopathic remedies is one of them. But did Marconi know the exact nature of Radio waves when he discovered them via his apparatus? No – but he learnt how to use them!
Privately, I tried to explain to you that for example potential energy does not dissipate. In the succession process, we seem to add to the ‘potential’ energy of the remedy being prepared (hence it is called a potency of 30C etc) – It has power to do work. We also see this when the remedy is plussed without dilution.
So the fact that there may be less and less of the original material as we dilute and dilute seems to be irrelevant, its essence and energy is increased. And such potencies are found to be distinguishable from one remedy to another.
You have also been told clearly that Avogadro’s number does not apply to Homeopathy, so why do you keep going on about it? What you are saying is not new to us, we have all considered this kind of thing during our training.
It seems to me the Chocolate is not working!

Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 17 January 2015 01:38
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
Let us say that there is 100 X 10^27 molecules in the flask (or whatever they use to potentize.) The first C dilution there will be only 1 X 10^27 molecules in the flask because it is diluted a hundred to 1. That is why it is called C, rather than D or X, which would be a 10 to 1 dilution. The second C dilution there will be only 10^25 molecules in flask. Each dilution is divided by a 100. The third C dilution there will be only 10^23 molecules in the flask. If we keep doing that for a 30C remedy, eventually we will get to 10^1 molecules, which equal 10 molecules, and the next dilution will give us 10^0, which equals 1 molecule. What happens next? We can't have less than zero molecules, so we start talking about what the probability is that the poor remaining molecule got tossed or stayed in the flask. With 30C, there would be 1 chance in 1,000,000 that that poor little molecule stayed in the flask and did not get tossed after the last dilution.

What happens with 200C? There would be one chance in 10^373 that the last molecule remained in the flask. There is simply no imaginable universe where this would happen. I hope that this is not a problem for you or anyone else. It is certainly not a problem for me. I have confidence in my 45 years of homeopathic experience, 220 years of millions of people's homeopathic experience, 185 years of the British Royal family's homeopathic experience. I just chalk it up to us not fully understanding life and the creation. If I limit reality to our physical world, then we have a problem. I don't.

Sincerely,
Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:31:11 -0800
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
but you did not explain how you believe Avogadro’s number is related in any way to Homeopathy. It is just the number of "things" per mole of any given substance.
vicki

www.LabelGMOFlorida.com
Join us on facebook and twitter
Working to label GMO foods

--------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Astrology vs homeopathy
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015, 3:40 PM
"Avogadro’s
number, number
of units in one mole
of any substance (defined as its molecular
weight in grams), equal to 6.02214129 ×
1023. The units may be electrons,
atoms,
ions,
or molecules,
depending on the nature of the substance and the character
of the reaction (if any)."

I took that from Encyclopaedia Britannica.

The
reason that sceptics keep mentioning that number is that
the
probability of a single atom still being present at a
dilution of 30C is
roughly 1 in 10 to the 37th power or 1 in
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. And,
of course, 200C would be 1 in 1 followed by 377 zeros.
Even if it were a physical energy that is trapped in the
remedy that was being prepared, it would still be reduced by
degrees exactly like the numbers typed above. Plus, a
physical energy would dissipate, like heat from an oven.
Also, the explanation of physical energy or physical atoms
does not explain why the remedies get STRONGER the more they
are potentized.

The only explanation that
works for me is that there is some transcendental
"energy" that is extracted out of the original
substance that is the result of the potentization. No
purely physical explanation makes any sense, whether that
explanation is atoms or energy. And when I say
"energy", I mean the physical energy whose
existence is not scorned by physical scientists who make
physical things happen, like bridges, automobiles, nuclear
power plants, etc.

I admit that this
explanation will not settle down the skeptics. But the
skeptics are already on the warpath concerning homeopathy,
and honesty forces me to admit to no other explanation other
than this one.
It is
true that this may be testable, but not using physically
dead devices like volt meters, etc. Dogs or bacteria or
humans can test this "energy", but non-living,
non-conscious devices never will.
This is my position, and I
am sticking to it.
Roger Bird