West Nile Virus & Lyme Nosode

[Patti Mount]

Hello Magda,

I have heard your name many times from dog owners who are pleased with the results. It is so good to *meet* you here...

I also have an opposite situation going on where one of the consultants is *treating* puppies with a single dose of LM1 and then nothing *happens* so one month later another single dose of a different remedy at LM1 is given & again nothing happens... this has gone on for one year with 10 different remedies given 1 dose at LM1 where 2 of the remedies were given twice but not in succession... and then to top it off while these pups are still displaying all of their original Sx those Nosodes were given in June... these puppies are quite ill now needless to say... I am taking the 2 cases with full details to my Study Group next week and we will review all this *mess* together... meanwhile I have also put the owner in touch with an accredited Classical Veterinary Homeopath in her locale whom we happen to know...

I had to explain to the very confused and upset owner that part of what has happened here is likened to these puppies being told on a homeopathic level that they are dearly loved but in such a low whisper that their Vital Force can not even hear it...

Respectfully yours,

Patti Mount, President IANTD World Headquarters
Patti@iantd.com http://www.iantd.com
Shogun's Webpage http://www.iantd.com/Shogun/Puppy.html
Ariel's Webpage & Pedigree http://www.iantd.com/Ariel/Ariel.htm

[Magda Aguila]

Patti,

NIce meeting you too! Would be happy to help unravel the mess. If we are
dealing with the same person, (where the nosodes are concerned) I'm used to
getting the results of her "treatments" !

Feel free to email me if you want some help.

Magda

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Patti,

What a terribly sad thing!!!
Would you mind filling in some details for me, if you could? Do I correctly
assume, then, that these pups have gotten repeated doses of each nosode, or
is it done with just one of each, and mixed, or together?

Maybe these experiences should be written up in the homeopathic journals;
both to educate patients as to risks (and more proper procedure?) and in
hope of reaching some of the folks who are (mis)prescribing this way?

Are these owners getting back in touch with the folks who've prescribed all
the nosodes, so that they *know* what's happening to their patients???

Shannon
on 8/13/02 7:56 AM, Patti Mount at Patti@iantd.com wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Magda,

Are you saying that *most* of these problems are coming from *one*
practitioner? Does she follow up with her clients, and why does she not
seem to what you are apparently seeing? Is this someone who can't be talked
with (and argh, I know there are some...)?

Maybe if someone approached him/her to do an article on the approach, ask to
look thru case records to gather background? If s/he is honest but deluded,
s/he might learn something; if s/he is dishonest, and seeing the truth but
hiding from it... I dunno. If it's really this bad, there ought to be
*something* to do...

Maybe more articles on classical homeopathy and safety guidelines thereof
(e.g. "watch and W-A-I-T", etc.), in dog magazines...

Shannon
on 8/13/02 4:33 PM, Magda Aguila at aquiline@statecom.net wrote:

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

What you are saying about prophylaxis with remedies implies knowing a
genus epidemicus. What I am talking about is using the germ (bacteria,
virus, parasite) itself in potency, i.e. the nosode of the
disease/condition.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Very good reasons of course: if and when a patient has contracted the
disease! Then you use the remedy. There is absolutely no argument about
that.

It is very weird, what you describe with nosodes and sick/dying puppies,
it does not match my personal experience with humans and the experience
of some vets or breeders I am in contact with.
The immediate question that comes to mind: has the nosode be attenuated
high enough, minimum 30C? then has it been repeated too often?
With all due respect, the contradiction between clinical experience make
me suspect a methodological problem.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

How would we know the artificial disease is not long lived? Because the
symptoms and signs disappear? But then we should all be clear of Psora
etc.... as long as we are asymptomatic, right? And we know it is not
true.

Information is stored without us knowing it and brought up if and when
needed, exactly the same way as not all your programs on your computer
are active at the same time, but they are there, reading to go to work
if and when needed.
That does not mean I advocate massive campaigns of homeopathic
immunisations for the public, but then what is the definition of an
epidemic? Do you define it by a certain number, a percentage, what???
And you have to take into account the fears and requests of your
patients too..........

No indiscriminate use, definitely, but some suppleness........

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Thanks Peter, but......

I have never understood what on earth is an asthma nosode or an
arthritis nosode......... so let us for the time being forget about
that. We talk about using the germ that, given the appropriate terrain,
is going to cause a disease/condition that has a label showing that in
general many symptoms and signs are almost always present and give us
the picture of the disease; then we have the interaction between the
germ and the individual, which are going to give us the symptoms and
signs of the condition as modified by the constitution and state of
health of the patient = 2 different beasts.

The nosode of the disease (say Morbillinum) does not need to cover all
the possible symptoms and signs in their provings because those symptoms
and signs belong to the patient and are covered by his/her simillimum
after the infection has occurred. The nosode at that time is almost
useless (its later use is another discussion).
The presence of the information brought by the nosode before the actual
infection acts as a simillimum against the germ without relation to the
patient's expression of symptoms, and will not allow the germ to take
hold in the physiology.
Do you see what I mean? We are absolutely not in contradiction here, we
are talking different actions at different times, prevention versus
cure, both rooted in the law of similars.
The great masters are still resting in peace............. )

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Magda Aguila]

HI Shannon,

I am not Kitty, but I can give you my experiences.

There is one person in Oregon who sells Parvo, Distemper, and all other
animal nosodes without a prescription and many times in combination.

Her protocol for Parvo (I am addressing this because it is the one I have
dealt with the most) is to give Parvo 30C once a day for a week, starting at
3 weeks! Then she goes up to Parvo 200C once a week for a month. Then she
goes up to Parvo 1M once a month for three months and then once every 3
months for at least a year.

I have had innumerable breeders contact me (last summer I treated 6 litters)
with pups showing typical signs of Parvo (bloody diarrhea, vomiting,
listlessness, complete inability to drink water or eat) without testing
positive for the virus. Usually by the time I get them, the pups are either
at the vet's getting suppressive medications for the vomit and diarrhea and
are getting hydration as the disease totally dehydrates them. Sometimes
they come to me after they have lost one or two pups. It is the hardest
thing to treat! I have better results treating the disease than I do
treating the nosode induced symptoms. I explain to the owners what is
happening, and I am constantly talking about nosodes and erronous protocols
on all the animal lists I belong to. It doesn't matter. She has been
around for a long time, and people really trust her! Those who have had
these horrible experiences are afraid of her as she has threatened to sue
people for libel many times (me included).

She is not a homeopath, so I doubt she reads any of our publications. She
presents herself as a certified "holistic practitioner" and a "certified
hometoxicologist".... whatever that means!

According to her, the Europpean company that she works with that produces
these products has trained her in homeotoxicology. My battles with her have
been going on for years! You should see some of the letters I have gotten
from her! LOL

Magda

[Edward P. Conway]

Magda:

I don't normally chime in on this message board, but this "string" concerns
me very much. The Homeopathic Pharmacopoeia Convention of the United States
is the primary organization dealing with FDA on the regulation of
homeopathic remedies. The HPCUS recommends that all Nosodes be classified
as "Prescription Drugs". This is typically true of any remedy ending in
"inum". Most reputable companies only dispense nosodes to pharmacists or
practitioners properly licensed to write prescriptions in the state of their
locale.

It is widely debated in the homeopathic community whether this is "law" or
simply a "recommendation." In a situation like this one, rest assured that
the interpretation of the FDA will be one of "law." Not only that, but the
practitioner in question seems to in violation of professional ethics for
using "prescription" medications for un-tested, un-proven protocols.

FDA is busy chasing "dead bodies" and relies heavily on the homeopathic
community to "self-regulate". As a community, we have an obligation to make
sure the highest standards are upheld. I suggest you report your concerns
to the HPCUS and allow them to make suggestions on how to deal with this
practitioner. You can email the President of the HPCUS here:
borneman3@aol.com

For more information on "homeopathic" regulatory issues visit the site:
http://www.hpus.com/ and click the link on regulations.