It is entirely possible that homeopathy will not work for people who are stridently against it, since homeopathy is a very subtle sort of thing [unlike pharmaceutical drugs that kill people left and right.] Skeptopathology is an attitude, and homeopathy impacts attitudes and emotions and even more inner "energies". A more balanced attitude of no attitude either way would probably work. But skeptopaths will think that such an attitude is unscientific. For the SP, it should work either way, sort of like an atomic bomb works whether it you believe in it or not.
To the SP viewpoint, I suppose that it does look like placebo. This may be because SPs are a very shallow bunch, and anything deeper than the power of suggestion simply is not part of their universe.
Roger
Homeopathy and skeptopaths
-
Roger Barr
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:00 pm
- Been thanked: 2 times
Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
I challenged a skeptic who was a lawyer specializing in consumer law, who was filing lawsuit(s) against pharmacies on the grounds that they were misrepresenting their products which appeared (to him) to have no active ingredients i.e. it was all a placebo hoax. I challenged him to do a proving of a remedy that was unknown to both of us. I was supposed to determine which of a set of remedies he had actually taken (only the pharmacy knew). Unfortunately I didnt get it right but he was so surprised by the effects that he experienced from his proving of the remedy Pulsatilla 30c that he withdrew his lawsuit(s). I havent kept up with him over the years. This was during the late '90s in California.
Since then I have challenged many different skeptics in many different forums to do a proper proving. Never been able to convince one since. They have a (pathological, imho) distrust of their own experience, whereas they totally trust their beliefs and theories. They are willing to down a bottle of quote homeopathic unquote sleeping pills at a demonstration but that is as far as it goes.
The difference with the lawyer may have been that I met him in person and talked with him one-on-one for quite a while and perhaps convinced him that I wasnt a fraudulent nut case, which is their fantasy about all homeopaths. I think if homeopaths went to skeptic meetings and talked with them one-on-one, we might have a good source for provers.
Btw, I believe its totally counter-productive and probably false to talk about the memory of water, even assuming there is such a thing as demonstrated repeatedly by J. Bienveniste and other labs, since their is no proof that it accounts for the activity of homeopathic remedies. I just tell people that I dont know how they work but it is a repeatable phenomena which can be demonstrated in a proving. "Give it a try."
Roger B. (Barr)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Roger B wrote:
Since then I have challenged many different skeptics in many different forums to do a proper proving. Never been able to convince one since. They have a (pathological, imho) distrust of their own experience, whereas they totally trust their beliefs and theories. They are willing to down a bottle of quote homeopathic unquote sleeping pills at a demonstration but that is as far as it goes.
The difference with the lawyer may have been that I met him in person and talked with him one-on-one for quite a while and perhaps convinced him that I wasnt a fraudulent nut case, which is their fantasy about all homeopaths. I think if homeopaths went to skeptic meetings and talked with them one-on-one, we might have a good source for provers.
Btw, I believe its totally counter-productive and probably false to talk about the memory of water, even assuming there is such a thing as demonstrated repeatedly by J. Bienveniste and other labs, since their is no proof that it accounts for the activity of homeopathic remedies. I just tell people that I dont know how they work but it is a repeatable phenomena which can be demonstrated in a proving. "Give it a try."
Roger B. (Barr)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Roger B wrote:
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
I think that was a unique experience and early in the quackbuster game.
You also may have found a lawyer who had a legal inquisitiveness that
challenged him. Plus, his arrogance about his skepticism let him get engaged.
Over the years the quackbuster types have tightened their denialism and
I seriously doubt that you could engage them within their own ranks. Perhaps
if you met one outside their stronghold you might be able to tickle their resistence
into stepping up to your challenge.
Today these people are heavily embroiled in a process of legally assaulting
holistic practioners. There have been several big cases and despite the ongoing
history of legal losses, these people seem to have limitless funds to keep taking
people to court. The strategy is not about winning legally as much as it is about
destroying people financially, ruining reputations and spiritually exhausting and
wiping people out. There are other right wing groups that use this tactic, too.
t
From: Roger Barr
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 1:42 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
I challenged a skeptic who was a lawyer specializing in consumer law, who was filing lawsuit(s) against pharmacies on the grounds that they were misrepresenting their products which appeared (to him) to have no active ingredients i.e. it was all a placebo hoax. I challenged him to do a proving of a remedy that was unknown to both of us. I was supposed to determine which of a set of remedies he had actually taken (only the pharmacy knew). Unfortunately I didnt get it right but he was so surprised by the effects that he experienced from his proving of the remedy Pulsatilla 30c that he withdrew his lawsuit(s). I havent kept up with him over the years. This was during the late '90s in California.
Since then I have challenged many different skeptics in many different forums to do a proper proving. Never been able to convince one since. They have a (pathological, imho) distrust of their own experience, whereas they totally trust their beliefs and theories. They are willing to down a bottle of quote homeopathic unquote sleeping pills at a demonstration but that is as far as it goes.
The difference with the lawyer may have been that I met him in person and talked with him one-on-one for quite a while and perhaps convinced him that I wasnt a fraudulent nut case, which is their fantasy about all homeopaths. I think if homeopaths went to skeptic meetings and talked with them one-on-one, we might have a good source for provers.
Btw, I believe its totally counter-productive and probably false to talk about the memory of water, even assuming there is such a thing as demonstrated repeatedly by J. Bienveniste and other labs, since their is no proof that it accounts for the activity of homeopathic remedies. I just tell people that I dont know how they work but it is a repeatable phenomena which can be demonstrated in a proving. "Give it a try."
Roger B. (Barr)
--- In mailto:minutus%40yahoogroups.com, Roger B wrote:
You also may have found a lawyer who had a legal inquisitiveness that
challenged him. Plus, his arrogance about his skepticism let him get engaged.
Over the years the quackbuster types have tightened their denialism and
I seriously doubt that you could engage them within their own ranks. Perhaps
if you met one outside their stronghold you might be able to tickle their resistence
into stepping up to your challenge.
Today these people are heavily embroiled in a process of legally assaulting
holistic practioners. There have been several big cases and despite the ongoing
history of legal losses, these people seem to have limitless funds to keep taking
people to court. The strategy is not about winning legally as much as it is about
destroying people financially, ruining reputations and spiritually exhausting and
wiping people out. There are other right wing groups that use this tactic, too.
t
From: Roger Barr
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 1:42 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
I challenged a skeptic who was a lawyer specializing in consumer law, who was filing lawsuit(s) against pharmacies on the grounds that they were misrepresenting their products which appeared (to him) to have no active ingredients i.e. it was all a placebo hoax. I challenged him to do a proving of a remedy that was unknown to both of us. I was supposed to determine which of a set of remedies he had actually taken (only the pharmacy knew). Unfortunately I didnt get it right but he was so surprised by the effects that he experienced from his proving of the remedy Pulsatilla 30c that he withdrew his lawsuit(s). I havent kept up with him over the years. This was during the late '90s in California.
Since then I have challenged many different skeptics in many different forums to do a proper proving. Never been able to convince one since. They have a (pathological, imho) distrust of their own experience, whereas they totally trust their beliefs and theories. They are willing to down a bottle of quote homeopathic unquote sleeping pills at a demonstration but that is as far as it goes.
The difference with the lawyer may have been that I met him in person and talked with him one-on-one for quite a while and perhaps convinced him that I wasnt a fraudulent nut case, which is their fantasy about all homeopaths. I think if homeopaths went to skeptic meetings and talked with them one-on-one, we might have a good source for provers.
Btw, I believe its totally counter-productive and probably false to talk about the memory of water, even assuming there is such a thing as demonstrated repeatedly by J. Bienveniste and other labs, since their is no proof that it accounts for the activity of homeopathic remedies. I just tell people that I dont know how they work but it is a repeatable phenomena which can be demonstrated in a proving. "Give it a try."
Roger B. (Barr)
--- In mailto:minutus%40yahoogroups.com, Roger B wrote:
Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
Dear Roger B.
I am just letting you know that I appreciated the time that you took to type that. Very interesting stuff. Thank you.
Roger
________________________________
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: rrandor@canhealyourself.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 05:42:57 +0000
Subject: [Minutus] Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
I challenged a skeptic who was a lawyer specializing in consumer law, who was filing lawsuit(s) against pharmacies on the grounds that they were misrepresenting their products which appeared (to him) to have no active ingredients i.e. it was all a placebo hoax. I challenged him to do a proving of a remedy that was unknown to both of us. I was supposed to determine which of a set of remedies he had actually taken (only the pharmacy knew). Unfortunately I didnt get it right but he was so surprised by the effects that he experienced from his proving of the remedy Pulsatilla 30c that he withdrew his lawsuit(s). I havent kept up with him over the years. This was during the late '90s in California.
Since then I have challenged many different skeptics in many different forums to do a proper proving. Never been able to convince one since. They have a (pathological, imho) distrust of their own experience, whereas they totally trust their beliefs and theories. They are willing to down a bottle of quote homeopathic unquote sleeping pills at a demonstration but that is as far as it goes.
The difference with the lawyer may have been that I met him in person and talked with him one-on-one for quite a while and perhaps convinced him that I wasnt a fraudulent nut case, which is their fantasy about all homeopaths. I think if homeopaths went to skeptic meetings and talked with them one-on-one, we might have a good source for provers.
Btw, I believe its totally counter-productive and probably false to talk about the memory of water, even assuming there is such a thing as demonstrated repeatedly by J. Bienveniste and other labs, since their is no proof that it accounts for the activity of homeopathic remedies. I just tell people that I dont know how they work but it is a repeatable phenomena which can be demonstrated in a proving. "Give it a try."
Roger B. (Barr)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com , Roger B wrote:
I am just letting you know that I appreciated the time that you took to type that. Very interesting stuff. Thank you.
Roger
________________________________
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: rrandor@canhealyourself.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 05:42:57 +0000
Subject: [Minutus] Re: Homeopathy and skeptopaths
I challenged a skeptic who was a lawyer specializing in consumer law, who was filing lawsuit(s) against pharmacies on the grounds that they were misrepresenting their products which appeared (to him) to have no active ingredients i.e. it was all a placebo hoax. I challenged him to do a proving of a remedy that was unknown to both of us. I was supposed to determine which of a set of remedies he had actually taken (only the pharmacy knew). Unfortunately I didnt get it right but he was so surprised by the effects that he experienced from his proving of the remedy Pulsatilla 30c that he withdrew his lawsuit(s). I havent kept up with him over the years. This was during the late '90s in California.
Since then I have challenged many different skeptics in many different forums to do a proper proving. Never been able to convince one since. They have a (pathological, imho) distrust of their own experience, whereas they totally trust their beliefs and theories. They are willing to down a bottle of quote homeopathic unquote sleeping pills at a demonstration but that is as far as it goes.
The difference with the lawyer may have been that I met him in person and talked with him one-on-one for quite a while and perhaps convinced him that I wasnt a fraudulent nut case, which is their fantasy about all homeopaths. I think if homeopaths went to skeptic meetings and talked with them one-on-one, we might have a good source for provers.
Btw, I believe its totally counter-productive and probably false to talk about the memory of water, even assuming there is such a thing as demonstrated repeatedly by J. Bienveniste and other labs, since their is no proof that it accounts for the activity of homeopathic remedies. I just tell people that I dont know how they work but it is a repeatable phenomena which can be demonstrated in a proving. "Give it a try."
Roger B. (Barr)
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com , Roger B wrote: