Talk about the pot calling the kettle balck. I've been amused with your recent rant, Irene, once again yelling in church. If you are not careful, people here may begin to think that you are nuts.
FYI, viruses are too small to be observed in a microscope. You pontificated in accusing someone here that, in your opinion, never peered into a microscope. So what? You don't see much in doing so as the light blinds the observer. You can't see the stars in daylight either. Your points are biased and moot, and frankly I'm getting tired of reading your nonsense. I wouldn't bring a pet to you for treatment, that is for sure.
It was said: It is far better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought of being a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Caveat Emptor! Carmi Hazen
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Your refs all lead to this Stefan Lanka person who does not know what he is talking about.
.......Irene
Viruses are not what they tell us: was Michael Douglas - HPV Caused My Oral Canc
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comdyne2002
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:00 pm
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Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
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Re: Viruses are not what they tell us: was Michael Douglas - HPV Caused My Oral Canc
For those unfamiliar with the concepts of microscopes, there are three kinds of microscope, and viruses are clearly visible using two of the three.
Type one- the older style microscopes are still useful today, called "light microscopes".
The "light" in the name refers to "visible light" as opposed to "electrons", and is not a reference to weight.
What you can see with a "light microscope" is limited to anything that is as long as a wavelength of light or LONGER tan a wavelength of light. That is why you cannot see a virus with a light microscope. Humans can see down to about 390 nm so anything smaller than that, we cannot "resolve" (or see).
However electrons have a MUCH shorter wavelength than visible light, and so we can photograph anything tinier than a lightwave we can see, using electron beams instead of light beams. Since electrons are many orders of magnitude smaller than a virus or even a prion, we can clearly see such miniature things as viruses using an electron microscope instead of a light miroscope. A virus can be magnified VERY clearly and seen very clearly this way.
There are two major kinds of electron microscope used in virus study:
One is called Transmision Electron Microscope or TEM. This one looks THROUGH any sample put under the microscope and can see the internal structure as well as the surface structure.This is the one used to study what goes on internally in tiny structures, but it is harder to see the surface shape.
The other one is a Scanning Electron Microscope or SEM. Any sample to be looked at under an SEM is first coated with a few molecules thick layer of metal, usually gold-palladium alloy. (This is done in a vacuum chamber) This allows the surface shape to be clearly seen by the electron microscope, but not the inside.
ALL electron microscopes use a photography system as it is not safe for a human to look directly at electrons being bombarded at them. So when running a SEM or TEM, you watch the screen and see the photographed images there. These pictures are called electron-micrographs.
A virus can look a foot tall on a TEM or SEM picture, (and there are combination SEM/TEM electron microscopes too) with extremely good resolution (clarity) due to the electron's incredibly short length.
The claims that a virus has not been seen or been seen in action etc - are all based on photographs from light microscopes, written up by people who just are not up to date on electron microscopes and what they show us with such amazing clarity.
Electron microscopes are so amazing at making tiny detail incredibly clear that we can actually see large molecules under an electron microscope - such as the giant DNA molecules. So to suggest we can't see something as relatively gigantic as a virus clearly, is extremely out of date.
In Hahnemann's time it might have been appropriate:-)
Here is an example of a phage photograph from a TEM electron microscope. (Phage is a type of virus that infects bacteria):
There's a prion electron micrograph picture here, with an article that gives some explanations:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8435320.stm
ANd if it shows on the list, here is a photo of a mad cow prion taken with a TEM, at 125,000 magnification:
In other words the REAL size of the prion is one 125-thousandth the size of the photo here:
Type one- the older style microscopes are still useful today, called "light microscopes".
The "light" in the name refers to "visible light" as opposed to "electrons", and is not a reference to weight.
What you can see with a "light microscope" is limited to anything that is as long as a wavelength of light or LONGER tan a wavelength of light. That is why you cannot see a virus with a light microscope. Humans can see down to about 390 nm so anything smaller than that, we cannot "resolve" (or see).
However electrons have a MUCH shorter wavelength than visible light, and so we can photograph anything tinier than a lightwave we can see, using electron beams instead of light beams. Since electrons are many orders of magnitude smaller than a virus or even a prion, we can clearly see such miniature things as viruses using an electron microscope instead of a light miroscope. A virus can be magnified VERY clearly and seen very clearly this way.
There are two major kinds of electron microscope used in virus study:
One is called Transmision Electron Microscope or TEM. This one looks THROUGH any sample put under the microscope and can see the internal structure as well as the surface structure.This is the one used to study what goes on internally in tiny structures, but it is harder to see the surface shape.
The other one is a Scanning Electron Microscope or SEM. Any sample to be looked at under an SEM is first coated with a few molecules thick layer of metal, usually gold-palladium alloy. (This is done in a vacuum chamber) This allows the surface shape to be clearly seen by the electron microscope, but not the inside.
ALL electron microscopes use a photography system as it is not safe for a human to look directly at electrons being bombarded at them. So when running a SEM or TEM, you watch the screen and see the photographed images there. These pictures are called electron-micrographs.
A virus can look a foot tall on a TEM or SEM picture, (and there are combination SEM/TEM electron microscopes too) with extremely good resolution (clarity) due to the electron's incredibly short length.
The claims that a virus has not been seen or been seen in action etc - are all based on photographs from light microscopes, written up by people who just are not up to date on electron microscopes and what they show us with such amazing clarity.
Electron microscopes are so amazing at making tiny detail incredibly clear that we can actually see large molecules under an electron microscope - such as the giant DNA molecules. So to suggest we can't see something as relatively gigantic as a virus clearly, is extremely out of date.
In Hahnemann's time it might have been appropriate:-)
Here is an example of a phage photograph from a TEM electron microscope. (Phage is a type of virus that infects bacteria):
There's a prion electron micrograph picture here, with an article that gives some explanations:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8435320.stm
ANd if it shows on the list, here is a photo of a mad cow prion taken with a TEM, at 125,000 magnification:
In other words the REAL size of the prion is one 125-thousandth the size of the photo here:
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comdyne2002
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:00 pm
Re: Viruses are not what they tell us: was Michael Douglas - HPV Caused My Oral Canc
Electron microscopes are very poor research tools. Living active organisms cannot be viewed using these "shadow graphs" as Dr. Rife called them. The samples are damaged by the electron beams so the same organism prepaired slightly differently and bombarded at a different angle or intensity may look entirely different than another identical sample from the same source.
These limitations render the technology useless in medical research. Imagine attempting to determine the story line of a movie when all you get to view are the advertising posters in the lobby.
There now exists a technology that allows resolutions in the order of 50 nm developed in Germany known as the Ergonom series. These can be seen by going to:http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/ergonom_500.html
Caveat Emptor! Carmi Hazen
These limitations render the technology useless in medical research. Imagine attempting to determine the story line of a movie when all you get to view are the advertising posters in the lobby.
There now exists a technology that allows resolutions in the order of 50 nm developed in Germany known as the Ergonom series. These can be seen by going to:http://www.grayfieldoptical.com/ergonom_500.html
Caveat Emptor! Carmi Hazen