combining homeopathy with other modalities

[Ellen Madono]

Dear Dr. Roz and anyone else who is interested,

You use homeopathy with TCM so obviously it is not confusing to you. There are homeopaths who recommend avoiding TCM during homeopathic treatment because it is confusing to the homeopath. I think they mean that because TCM works with balancing the whole organism, the homeopath cannot distinguish remedy results from TCM results. What do you do about that phenomena? As I look back at recent intense TCM treatment of myself, my feeling is the homeopathic treatments have not been very effective or at the least, it looks to me like the TCM is doing the work and not the remedy. So these homeopaths maybe right???

Perhaps the work around is to separate TCM treatments from homeopathic treatment. What do you think?

Given those doubts, I am getting better with TCM 5 element analysis and treatment and thinking that I could just as well be organizing me homeopathy data on the 5 element template. I mean as a pre-reporitization template. Will Taylor is suggesting the Boinninghausen x diagram (sensations, location, concomittants, modalities/etiology). He adds pace as a confirmatory. Of course that is a snug fit for homeopathy. A five element template does not feel like a snug fit for homeopathy. However, in other courses, Will suggests the Modus Mundi which to me is a 4 element Western version of the TCM 5 elements. Dr. Shahrdar has another non-visual "schema." How do you approach such pre-repping analysis? Do you select the template depending on the case and the kind of treatment that you will use? I am not looking for what is better, but rather how to orient myself. If these templates are thought of as tools, how do I lay them out in my file drawer?

I am also feeling that sometimes my understanding of the patient is just too shallow or they are holding back information etc. I should be doing other treatments like TCM, flower remedies, or essential oils. Also, there are periods when too many remedies have been given and it is better to just take some time out with homeopathy. The above mentioned modalities all involve high energy and perhaps do not combine too well with homeopathy. Herbs, including gemmotherphy, take place on a gross level so they are ok given at the same time as a homeopathic remedy. What do you think?

Blessings,
Ellen Madono

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Hi, Ellen'
It is true that it is a lot simpler to evaluate results using one single modality at a time.
The cutting point is which modality are you using for what?
That is where a hierarcy of treatment has to come in, we already had that discussion. A choice has to be made on what to address first: if you perceive that, right now, the patient is completely unbalanced and taphat will prevent a DEEP action of the remedy, then you need to rebalance him even temporarily by any means to allow the remedy to act. OTOH a deep acting remedy might create a temporary imbalance; you can choose either to wait it out or to restore equilibrium by any modality you feel would be specifically indicated. Using 5 elements acupuncture with say a mis,atic treatment is asking for trouble; using simple acupuncture for pain relief should not present any problem.
Do I make sense?

Joe.

[domenicstanghini]

HI Ellen

---I personally have had TCM and Homeopathic treatments at the same time. I have found that they work well together and keep the "energy moving" where one is stuck. If the bottom line is... you get better...it does not matter if it is TCM or Homeopathy imo, though both could synergistically work better together rather than either alone, depending on the situation. At other times i used only homeo remedies and where things did not evolve quicker a visit to a TCM practitioner can rebalance things where homeopathy may not be as effective.

I have been using and integrating slowing the wonderful info from Dr. Roz books.

Best Wishes

Domenic

[geo]

Hi Ellen. Do you mean the "calssical five element acupuncture" as per Dr. Worsley?
-geo-

From: Ellen Madono
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:20 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] combining homeopathy with other modalities
Dear Dr. Roz and anyone else who is interested,

You use homeopathy with TCM so obviously it is not confusing to you. There are homeopaths who recommend avoiding TCM during homeopathic treatment because it is confusing to the homeopath. I think they mean that because TCM works with balancing the whole organism, the homeopath cannot distinguish remedy results from TCM results. What do you do about that phenomena? As I look back at recent intense TCM treatment of myself, my feeling is the homeopathic treatments have not been very effective or at the least, it looks to me like the TCM is doing the work and not the remedy. So these homeopaths maybe right???

Perhaps the work around is to separate TCM treatments from homeopathic treatment. What do you think?

Given those doubts, I am getting better with TCM 5 element analysis and treatment and thinking that I could just as well be organizing me homeopathy data on the 5 element template. I mean as a pre-reporitization template. Will Taylor is suggesting the Boinninghausen x diagram (sensations, location, concomittants, modalities/etiology). He adds pace as a confirmatory. Of course that is a snug fit for homeopathy. A five element template does not feel like a snug fit for homeopathy. However, in other courses, Will suggests the Modus Mundi which to me is a 4 element Western version of the TCM 5 elements. Dr. Shahrdar has another non-visual "schema." How do you approach such pre-repping analysis? Do you select the template depending on the case and the kind of treatment that you will use? I am not looking for what is better, but rather how to orient myself. If these templates are thought of as tools, how do I lay them out in my file drawer?

I am also feeling that sometimes my understanding of the patient is just too shallow or they are holding back information etc. I should be doing other treatments like TCM, flower remedies, or essential oils. Also, there are periods when too many remedies have been given and it is better to just take some time out with homeopathy. The above mentioned modalities all involve high energy and perhaps do not combine too well with homeopathy. Herbs, including gemmotherphy, take place on a gross level so they are ok given at the same time as a homeopathic remedy. What do you think?

Blessings,
Ellen Madono

[Mohammad]

What is TCM please? I am curious to know.Irfan

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "geo" wrote:

[Sheri Nakken]

traditional chinese medicine

Sheri

At 09:42 AM 5/28/2012, you wrote:

Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://homeopathycures.wordpress.com/ &
http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases
Next classes start May 18 & 25

[Ellen Madono]

Hi,

Just to clarify: Five element Classical acupuncture contrasts with other acupuncture system say focusing on organ system correspondences. It is the analytical method used typically among the Japanese acupuncture schools, in many shiatsu styles, and throughout the world where ever a smipler schema is preferred..

Dr. Roz, thank you for your reply. Yes that makes total sense. To clarify: In Chinese medicine there is the equivalent of homeopathic chronic care treatment and there is acute care. So, you are saying that addingTCM chronic care to homeopathy chronic care is asking for trouble. Acute care acuptucture with chronic care homeopathy is, ok.

A question about my current self care practice. Should I quit this practice when I am doing chronic homeopathy? I am doing everyday chronic care management with TCM on myself. Very simple kidney, Liver, stomach meridian support at the feet and occassionally spleen support when blood pressure is too low. But it is chronic care. It is much simpler than that the treatment that I get from my acupuncturist where she could spend 2-3 hours on me. Certainly, I would avoid her treatment. But is my maintinance program different? If I use a chronic care homeopathic remedy, I should quit my TCM care? The TCM care is what I do several times a week. It is on going so it would be in place before the chronic care homeopathy. It feels to me like taking vitamins but it is deep since I am doing meditation or chi gong. These are also deep practices. Hate to stop this routine just because is was so hard to get myself committed to doing it in the first place.

I guess you agree that Gemmotherapy is physical so it is ok to do with chronic homeopathic care. The Gemmotherapy that I am using is aimed at the weak kidney which is the aim of any acupucture or essential oil chronic care that I do.

Homeopathy does not have this narrow organ focus. It is truely mind body and in my mind much more focused than any other kind of treatment that I could do. It is hard to go that deep with anything else except maybe Bach flower remedies which may be deeper just because they aim at the spiritual level.

If I use essential oils physically (say French style), then it is ok to use with chronic homeopathic care. As I read it, essential oil treatment is not whole person analysis thus although the problems are chronic, the aim can be quite narrow. Of course there is mixing of oils in an attempt to cover more bases (energy levels as well as organ systems). So in these calculate mixes, we are closing in on Chronic care. Also, from the perspective of homeopathy, I risk antidoting the remedy in either case just because they are so aromatic. So probably best to avoid essential oils during any homeopathic treatment.

The acupuncture grand master, Jeffery Yuen, has a way of using essential oils on the accupuncture points. I am looking into this. But the problem of conflicting with deep constitutional homeopathy would remain if those points were aimed at constitutional issues.

I get the impression that homeopaths use Bach flower remedies with homeopathy. Or maybe careful classical homeopaths use just one high energy remedy at a time. So, they don't add a Bach flower remedy when doing chronic homeopathy; Especially it if it aimed at deep constitutional emotional sets.

Best,
Ellen

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

It is chronic care in the sense that you use it repeatedly, but is not deep care as it seems to address only the external expression of symptoms.
Let me clarify a bit, now that I am back at my computer and not fighting with a phone to answer emails...
While using acupuncture or any other form of energy medicine like Medical Qigong or Pranic Healing, what is regulated is the circulation of energy in the body-mind and the removal of "blockages" that prevent the proper circulation. At a deeper level of practice, the relationships between elements, the "Mother-Child" issues, the Ko and Shen cycles are corrected, which gives better, deeper and longer lasting results. But it need an extreme level of expertise (IMO and as far as I am concerned, I am definitely not one of those experts) to be able, through energetic regulation, to remove origins, roots of pathologies.
For example, if everything started with intense fear, terror, like after an assault or witnessing a murder, a lot of TCM practice will be aimed at the Kidney and the effects its imbalance has on the other organs. Then you bring everything back to equilibrium....cool....but the impact of the assault that lead to terror has generally not been addressed, and for me, only homeopathy can reach that deep and do it fast. TCM OTOH is, in my hands, a lot more difficult to apply especially when considering multifactorial origins of diseases....and there might also be a cultural and educational bias as despite years of study, I still cannot think "automatically" in terms of Chinese philosophy and even Taoist philosophy.
But imagine someone skilled gets there and manages to provide your physiology with the proper energetic tools according to TCM.....and at the same time you receive other tools, the homeopathic remedy. Which one will be used? Will they be synergistic or antagonistic? Or will a bit of this and a bit of that be used, with the final result being zilch? How are we to know? That is why it is better not to go there, safer in fact.
But as you know, when it comes to using different tools for different jobs, I have no problem with it at all, as long as you are able to evaluate the action of each tool.....with some leeway for overlaps. So gemmotherapy with homeopathy, I do that a lot, results are faster, and yes, at times I cannot be 100% about the attribution of merits. Honestly, I do not care.
What do you mean by French style Aromatherapy? My "French" style aromatherapy is oral ingestion of essential oils, something I do extremely rarely as it is a very dangerous and toxic technique, albeit extremely effective. In all my years of practice, I might have used it maybe half a dozen times in life threatening situations......
Antidoting will happen, IMO, only if you open a homeopathic remedy when the EO is floating around the room, then the structure of the "water memory" (for lack of a better term for the time being) can be changed. But once the remedy has been ingested, and the information delivered, if you witness "antidoting", it means the remedy was not correct, or partial, or purely symptomatic; what has happened is that the "antidote" has simply brought back the pathology that was "silenced" to the foreground.
Makes sense??
Joe.
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Ellen Madono]

Hi,

Gosh that does make sense about the Essential oils. Or another antidote for that matter. When homeopathic remedy has transferred to the body waters, how could a little sent change it. But, if it trapped in the pills, or the liquid dilution it could be overwhelmed by the scent floating around in the room.

BTW, I had never heard of this before, but keeping a liquid remedy in the refrigerator can zap it. It think the constant exposure to the electromagnetic field must be doing it. My patient was keeping both her constitutional and arnica in the fridge. She noticed the the arnica was not working. Then we tried remaking her constitutional. I had worked for several months and then seemed to lose its action. We started a new batch and the healing effect returned. Wow.

Also about deep acupuncture. Agreed, going deep takes really deep skill. I am not there at all. So, I am probably ok mixing my selfcare with chronic homeopathy. But maybe I should not mix my teacher's work with chronic treatment. She is skilled! I am using a chronic remedy with her and it does not seem to be working. Maybe she is just using too much deep acupuncture on herself.

Blessings,
Ellen

[Ellen Madono]

Hi Dominic,
Like Dr. Roz said, it is hard to get to the stage of TCM skill where you can antidote a skillfully chosen homeopathic remedy.
Best,
Ellen