Vaccine Dosage challenge

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Susan
As you know some children as immunised after birth and some at two months.

Let us take an average 2 month only baby who weighs about 5 kg.
Let us assume that they are given 0.5 ml of a vaccine or vaccine cocktail.
That is to say 0.1 ml per kilogram body weight.
The average male doctor would weigh about 75 kg.
Can you find any doctor who would volunteer to take 7.5 ml of the same vaccine?
I very much doubt it!
Have fun trying to find one.
Rgds

Soroush

[healthinfo6]

Soroush
OK, here comes another brouhaha, isn't vaccination in concept like homeopathy, giving something similar to what you're looking to cure, immunize against?
While maybe not classical, don't we use remedies like Influenzinum prophalactically to protect/immunize against the flu, like a flu vaccine?
While a vaccine is not an energy medicine like a homeopathic remedy where a 200C can be given to a cat, dog or human, size independent, isn't the dose size of vaccine independent of body weight?
So a 1-5 year old gets the same size dose as an adult? Thie only difference is how oftem a "booster" may be required.
Susan

[Sheri Nakken]

Similar means similar to the symptoms you have - giving a substance that would cause a similar set of symptoms in a healthy person =
nothing similar here and nothing individualized.

Homeopathy works with the vital force and works by stimulating the vital force
Vaccines are directed at the immune system - which very little is known about and even less is known about the immune system of an infant.
Nothing individualized about symptom picture/simillimum, potency, dose, frequency. They use one-size-fits-all

Excellent statement here:
"Furthermore, from a homeopathic and holistic perspective, vaccination can be a shock to the organism, especially in babies whose immune system is not even fully developed. According to homeopathy, vaccines are like "frozen diseases" that can prevent the system from actually learning to resolve symptoms on its own, while polluting the organism with toxic substances. Vaccination is a personal choice and a serious issue of our time. " http://www.bluelotusayurveda.com/homeopathy.html

Some substances were found by Hahnemann to be preventative when in the vicinity of 'disease'. I personally don't use influenzinum for myself or patients as don't feel it is necessary to try, even if it did 'work'.
Sheri

At 11:45 AM 11/29/2011, you wrote:
Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://homeopathycures.wordpress.com/ & http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases
Next classes start Wednesday November 30

[healthinfo6]

Doesn't taking one's constitutional homeopathic remedy strengthen the vital force, thus strengthening the immune system, directly or indirectly?
Susan

[Sheri Nakken]

certainly it does but in acute illness you use the remedy that fits the total new symptom picture.
Treating constitutionally assists the vital force in healing (and everything else in the body) but it doesn't just focus on immune system, or neurological system, or skeletal system. It helps the vital force to deal with the issue where it needs to. We have no clue what needs to be done, by the vital force.

Note Aphorism 1 -

The physician's high and only mission is to restore the sick to health, to cure, as it is termed.1

footnote 1"The physician's calling is not to concoct so-called systems from empty conceits and hypotheses concerning the inner wesen (my note-kind of like nature or knowing) of the life process and the origins of disease in the invisible interior of the organism (on which so many physicians mongering for fame have hitherto wasted their time and energy). "

"The physicians calling is not to make countless attempts at explanation regarding disease appearances and their proximate cause (which must ever remain concealed) holding forth in unintelligible words or abstract and pompous expressions in order to appear very learned and astonish the ignorant, while a sick world sighs in vain for help. Of such learned fanaticism (to which the name 'theoretical medicinal art' is given, and for which special professorships are instituted) we have had quite enough. It is high time for all those who call themselves physicians, once and for all, to stop deceiving suffering humanity with idle talk, and to 'begin' now to act, that is to really help and to cure."
Sheri

At 02:13 PM 11/29/2011, you wrote:
Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://homeopathycures.wordpress.com/ & http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases
Next classes start Wednesday November 30

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

No at all Susan
You cannot apply Homeopathic philosophy to allopathic medicines and especially vaccines.
If in a child's dose there is just sufficient material for a 5 kg baby, you cannot say by their philosophy that there is enough for a 75/80 kg adult.
I think you have realised that you will not find any one who will take a child vaccines dose modified for their own weight!
Just gracefully accept!
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of healthyinfo6@aol.com
Sent: 29 November 2011 19:46
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Vaccine Dosage challenge
Soroush
OK, here comes another brouhaha, isn't vaccination in concept like homeopathy, giving something similar to what you're looking to cure, immunize against?

While maybe not classical, don't we use remedies like Influenzinum prophalactically to protect/immunize against the flu, like a flu vaccine?
While a vaccine is not an energy medicine like a homeopathic remedy where a 200C can be given to a cat, dog or human, size independent, isn't the dose size of vaccine independent of body weight?
So a 1-5 year old gets the same size dose as an adult? Thie only difference is how oftem a "booster" may be required.
Susan

[John Harvey]

If I can try putting Soroush's point in another way:

The purpose of a vaccine differs radically from the purpose of a homoeopathically prescribed medicine. The vaccine's purpose is not, as is the purpose of homoeopathic treatment (and homoeopathic prophylaxis during an epidemic), to gently replace an inimical dynamic influence by a similar medicinal one that the organism can then respond to naturally, dynamically producing its own secondary (curative) reaction to that medicinal disease and overcoming it in its own way.

And it is not, as is the purpose of homoeopathic "vaccination" (independent of any epidemic), to establish, similarly gently, a medicinal illness to which the organism will respond in much the same way with the (at least intended) benefit of inducing a lasting immunity to similar illnesses.

The purpose of a vaccine is far narrower and more specific in scope: it is to induce specific primary effects, including and principally the effect of antibody production.

Whereas the homoeopathic principle is to induce medicinal substitution of an entire dynamic health derangement and it is anathema to attempt to induce any specific alteration in health, allopathic medicine's strength and entire modus operandi are its ability to induce specific derangements.

Usually the specific derangements the allopathic approach seeks to establish medicinally are in precise opposition to the patient's express symptom of interest: pain, inflammation, cough, whatever it may be.

In the case of vaccine use, the specific derangement sought -- antibody production -- is not utterly in opposition to an extant illness, because in fact the "patient" is (ideally) not even unwell. (It's arguable, though, that the vaccine derangement sought is in direct opposition to the potential illness of interest.) Nevertheless, in order to succeed in inducing this derangement, the vaccinator cannot rely on any gentle approach but must overcome the organism's immune defences. The derangement is in no way a natural response to an external threat; it is rather the deliberate manipulation of the immune system to produce an entirely unnatural outcome.

That is why, for instance, vaccines are always delivered in a manner that bypasses the body's natural protective barriers.

It is also why the measure of "success" -- the antibodies unnaturally produced in this manner -- bear little relation to the measure of natural immunity, even when gauged by antibody titres.

Finally, it is also why vaccination leads to allergy and autoimmune diseases. The immune system comprises two major mechanisms, and vaccines' deliberate derangement of one of those mechanisms has been found to be responsible for deranging the other also.

So vaccines are designed not to homoeopathically resemble an entire state of illness but to induce a very specific and major derangement of the immune system.

In order to derange the immune system or any other system of the body in a manner that is not merely dynamic but produces longstanding pathological alterations, the amount of medicinal "force" necessary is considerable. In other words, vaccinators must not only bypass the organism's defences, but must do so in what Hahnemann would have called "heroic" dosages: dosages sufficient to induce the illness sought. (In this case, the illness sought is derangement of system that produces antibodies, such that it is forced to produce antibodies in a manner and of a type that would never occur in nature.)

This sits the nature of vaccines within the fold not of homoeopathy but of everyday allopathic drugging.

Even a minute dose of a particular vaccine, injected or otherwise implanted in a manner designed to overcome normal immune barriers, might do some harm. But in order to utterly tear down the organism's normal immune defences and force the immune system into major deranged production of particular antibodies, a certain dose is required that is dependent upon the present state of the organism's immune system, including its sensory and production capacity.

The standard crude measure of such individual capacity to withstand vaccine assault is, as with all other "heroic" drugs, the single measure of body mass. So it makes perfect sense in allopathic thinking that a vaccine used to protect a 75 kg adult against, say, diphtheria would be administered to a 5 kg baby in just one-fifteenth the dose used in the adult. It's the only basis allopathy has for gauging a dose sufficient to overcome the organism without killing it. And it is in fact how some vaccine dosages are calculated.

Childhood vaccination, though, is big business. Shareholders and other "stakehholders", including media dependent on drug advertising and politicians funded by kickbacks from vaccine manufacturers, have tied themselves into a cycle of production that brings in not mere millions but many billions of dollars annually, all underwritten by federal governments world wide. As a source of income to the corrupt, vaccination is virtually unrivalled.

Such great income motivates great greed, and great greed outweighs competing considerations such as public safety and even, to an extent, self-protective caution. (Inducing politicians to give them immunity from damages claims by vaccine victims, though, has largely obviated the need for such caution, particularly as it has occurred in conjunction with the industry's almost unchallenged advertising-dollar power over the mass media and even ownership of some of the journals that appear to verify its methods.) And the combination of greed, hurry, and throwing caution to the wind has resulted in vaccine dosages that in some cases have so overpowered the organism, so throughly devastated its natural defences, that the victim has undergone severe brain damage within hours or fallen dead within weeks. The baby may display patterns interpreted as "sudden [meaning inexplicable] infant death" or "shaken-baby syndrome". The death may be utterly inexplicable. It may have been due to unusual sensitivity. The one thing you can count on learning about it with absolute assured official certainty is that it cannot have been due to the vaccine, as there is no way known by which it could occur.

Deaths statistically associated with any other poison are not ascribed to causes unknown simply because we don't know exactly how the poison works. The poison is treated as guilty till proven innocent, by the precautionary principle. But deaths clearly due to nothing else than vaccines are an utter mystery, because the vaccine is always innocent, even if it's later quietly replaced by something "better". No precautionary principle applies in the vaccine market, because no caution is required. Vaccines are utterly protected as a legitimate source of income, regardless of outcome. As a risk-free source of sustained high income, vaccines leave illegal drug-dealing in the dust.

And that freedom from financial risk changes the nature of the relationship between people who routinely deal with vaccines and those whom they expect to consume them without question. It makes manufacturers and their agents relatively careless and renders their customers relatively vulnerable. And it encourages unfounded confidence in the product itself, even to the point of facile arguments for social responsibility to consume it.

An adult who is willing to risk somebody else's baby -- the ideal customer, unable to refuse the goods -- for the sake of maintaining either profits (as in a company C.E.O.) or a job (as in a "researcher") or an appearance of everyday vaccine effectiveness may be willing to apply his thinking more personally, to have the vaccine himself, as long as it is in a comparatively minute dose.

But to take an equivalent dose of the childhood vaccines? To take them in the same manner, bypassing all natural defensive barriers, and to take them in proportion, by body mass, to the dose he blithely inflicts on a baby? Ah. That's a challenge no vaccinator has yet stepped up to meet, despite an offer of tens of thousands of U.S. dollars that has stood for many years. Nobody at all believes his own blithe assurances of safety who has first-hand experience and a real understanding of the goods.

Kind regards,

John
--
"And if care became the ethical basis of citizenship? Our parliaments, guided by such ideas, would be very different places."
—Paul Ginsborg, Democracy: Crisis and Renewal, London: Profile, 2008.

[Carol Orr]

John, you really ought to send that to the Huffington Post.

[Lisa Livingston]

Hi John:
This is the most clear and concise information I have ever read about Vaccine Dosage. Thank you for posting and putting this so succinctly. I am actually going to pass it along to my son and daughter-in-law for them to consider as a baby is coming for them in 3 mos. Her mom (daugter in law's) is a Nurse and I am a Homeopath - such different ways of looking at the world but I am hoping to share more good information with them though it is an emotional decision for them, not necessarily an objective decision. I hate it when logic runs into emotion.
Thanks again,
Lisa

[John Harvey]

Carol, Lisa: thank you!

John
--
"And if care became the ethical basis of citizenship? Our parliaments, guided by such ideas, would be very different places."
—Paul Ginsborg, Democracy: Crisis and Renewal, London: Profile, 2008.