No, Rik. The dentist looked in his books and never looked at the patient and that is why he failed--twice and it cost him, a rarity for an allopath.
But if you pay attention to your patients like this dentist and so many of his cohorts, then there is a serious problem in your concept of working with
the patient as a whole being. Your attention to detail is reflected in your bastardizing my name--a common problem with people who dont pay attention
to the person.
t
Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
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Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
I tend to agree with you, Joe. One of the problems here seems to be the desire to have people practice only one modality with
a judgement that something is amiss when other modalities are used.
As for the art of the practice, the uniqueness of the individual practitioner is very central to how the case is taken. Each person
has their own personal approach and ways they ask/do not ask questions. There is a kind of dance that goes on between the
patient and the practitioner. One homeopath used to teach to take the case as if meditating with your eyes open in order to openly
receive the case without prejudice.
tanya
Why separate and categorise?
I am an MD, I am a scientist, I am a sceptic, yet I learn and use each and every possible tool I can get my hands on according to the need of the patient. For crying out loud, I just completed the Advanced Pranic Healing training....me!
We seem to forget and confuse a few things.
First, the patient is what matters, not the technique or the belief or the practitioner's preferences.
Second (very old discussion resurging here) is to know exactly what we do and what we talk about, being able to accurately pinpoint and define what we use, how and why: homeopathy is homeopathy, manual medicine is manual medicine, herbalism is herbalism, etc,....there are interconnections, but the differences are clear.
Joe.
??? ???
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
a judgement that something is amiss when other modalities are used.
As for the art of the practice, the uniqueness of the individual practitioner is very central to how the case is taken. Each person
has their own personal approach and ways they ask/do not ask questions. There is a kind of dance that goes on between the
patient and the practitioner. One homeopath used to teach to take the case as if meditating with your eyes open in order to openly
receive the case without prejudice.
tanya
Why separate and categorise?
I am an MD, I am a scientist, I am a sceptic, yet I learn and use each and every possible tool I can get my hands on according to the need of the patient. For crying out loud, I just completed the Advanced Pranic Healing training....me!
We seem to forget and confuse a few things.
First, the patient is what matters, not the technique or the belief or the practitioner's preferences.
Second (very old discussion resurging here) is to know exactly what we do and what we talk about, being able to accurately pinpoint and define what we use, how and why: homeopathy is homeopathy, manual medicine is manual medicine, herbalism is herbalism, etc,....there are interconnections, but the differences are clear.
Joe.
??? ???
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
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Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
I learned a long time ago to start each and every case, even follow-ups, with a total blank mind (insert humoristic comments here.....), with no preconceptions, no desire to use this or that technique (and that can be very difficult especially when I just learned something new and I burn to try it!!!) and only at the end of the history and physical examination to decide which technique(s) or approache(s) will be used.
Of course this is not always true: when examining a patient physically I see a misalignment that should be corrected, I proceed immediately, even at time without telling the patient what I am doing, only saying "can I quickly settle that so it is out of the way?"
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
Of course this is not always true: when examining a patient physically I see a misalignment that should be corrected, I proceed immediately, even at time without telling the patient what I am doing, only saying "can I quickly settle that so it is out of the way?"
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
Tanya said:
One of the problems here seems to be the desire to have people practice only one modality with
I disagree with that. It is up to each individual what they practice, but this list is about following Hahnemann's teachings on Homeopathy. If people wish to discuss all the other forms of healing that they choose to use there are lists that are more eclectic and also lists for each different healing modality. What people object to is that all these different practices, such as the use of multiple remedies, are given the title of homeopathy. This blurring of lines only serves to confuse newbies to homeopathy and also the patients. When someone is told that Homeopathy might cure their health problem they go out and look for a homeopath; they don't go out and look for a do-a-bit-of-this-and-a bit-of-that-opath. They often come to homeopathy after having tried many of the different healing modalities (as I did) and now want to be treated by a well qualified homeopath who understands Hahnemann's teachings and can lead them, or their animals, to cure. Again and again I see people turning away from homeopathy, and not because homeopathy itself failed, but because the practitioner failed to understand what homeopathy was: like cures like, minimum dose, single remedy. They are frequently going away from homeopathy with more problems than they or their animals came with.
The other reason why people don't want this list taken up with none homeopathic topics is time: homeopathy is a very time consuming topic to study and people don't want to have to wade through masses of off topic subjects to get to the relevant bits, and sadly this list got to the stage where it was more off topic than on topic.
Kerry
One of the problems here seems to be the desire to have people practice only one modality with
I disagree with that. It is up to each individual what they practice, but this list is about following Hahnemann's teachings on Homeopathy. If people wish to discuss all the other forms of healing that they choose to use there are lists that are more eclectic and also lists for each different healing modality. What people object to is that all these different practices, such as the use of multiple remedies, are given the title of homeopathy. This blurring of lines only serves to confuse newbies to homeopathy and also the patients. When someone is told that Homeopathy might cure their health problem they go out and look for a homeopath; they don't go out and look for a do-a-bit-of-this-and-a bit-of-that-opath. They often come to homeopathy after having tried many of the different healing modalities (as I did) and now want to be treated by a well qualified homeopath who understands Hahnemann's teachings and can lead them, or their animals, to cure. Again and again I see people turning away from homeopathy, and not because homeopathy itself failed, but because the practitioner failed to understand what homeopathy was: like cures like, minimum dose, single remedy. They are frequently going away from homeopathy with more problems than they or their animals came with.
The other reason why people don't want this list taken up with none homeopathic topics is time: homeopathy is a very time consuming topic to study and people don't want to have to wade through masses of off topic subjects to get to the relevant bits, and sadly this list got to the stage where it was more off topic than on topic.
Kerry
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
Perhaps we need to clarify what we mean by "intuitive" prescribing. I should think it would mean a prescription that cannot be justified by careful repertorization, but rather is based on some intuitive "hit."
Jean's prescribing doesn't fit that model: she didn't simply think "cats" and go with Lac-fel.; she first read up on the remedy to make sure it fit her case.
Some cases simply don't repertorize well, or at all, like one I had earlier this year of a constitutional Gaertner. That was found not intuitively but by carefully narrowing down the universe of potential remedies that might help an extremely sensitive and weakened patient.
Peace,
Dale
Jean's prescribing doesn't fit that model: she didn't simply think "cats" and go with Lac-fel.; she first read up on the remedy to make sure it fit her case.
Some cases simply don't repertorize well, or at all, like one I had earlier this year of a constitutional Gaertner. That was found not intuitively but by carefully narrowing down the universe of potential remedies that might help an extremely sensitive and weakened patient.
Peace,
Dale
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John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
Dale -- and, earlier, Joe, with "Intuition without knowledge is not real intuition, it is more guesswork" -- has hit the nail on the head. The "intuition" that Fran and Rik are clearly referring to is a species of guesswork, and its content ("I just have a hunch that this is the remedy") can't be defended, and Fran and Rik are right to therefore cede it little credibility. The misnaming of mere hunches as intuition gives intuition a bad name.
Genuine intuition, in contrast, is the kind that Tanya and Joe have elucidated -- coalescence of a number of pieces of knowledge into one picture or set of relationships -- and its content is defensible because it is perfectly explicable: it can be explained, longhand, from the pieces of knowledge that make it up, and it has an important place in the art of medicine.
I enjoyed your scientific tests for intuition, Rik! Very elegant. I think you may have overlooked an important aspect of Jean's method, though. As I've mentioned in another post [2:39 p.m. GMT, under "WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)"], Jean didn't let the incident of the cat in the window lead her to her prescription; she let it lead her rather to fresh consideration and to study of the materia medica. And anything -- intuition, guesswork, tossing a coin -- that does that contributes to the process of genuinely homoeopathic prescribing. The intuition in that case comprised the instant assembly of pieces of her prior knowledge regarding Lac felinum, and was clearly genuine intuition; but Jean clearly did not use it in place of the task of reference to the materia medica and consideration of the substance's similarity to the patient relative to the similarity of other substances.
Kerry, thank you for your able defence as always of the meaning of homoeopathy and your statement of our common purpose in keeping it clear. I enjoyed your term "do-a-bit-of-this-and-a bit-of-that-opath". I wonder whether it's worth pushing for certification in it for those who think it valuable.
(It differentiates itself very nicely from naturopathy, of course, in its preference for calling one thing by the name of another. Perhaps a synonym for it would be randomopathy, except that that misses the pseudopathy part. Pseudorandomopathy?)
John
Genuine intuition, in contrast, is the kind that Tanya and Joe have elucidated -- coalescence of a number of pieces of knowledge into one picture or set of relationships -- and its content is defensible because it is perfectly explicable: it can be explained, longhand, from the pieces of knowledge that make it up, and it has an important place in the art of medicine.
I enjoyed your scientific tests for intuition, Rik! Very elegant. I think you may have overlooked an important aspect of Jean's method, though. As I've mentioned in another post [2:39 p.m. GMT, under "WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)"], Jean didn't let the incident of the cat in the window lead her to her prescription; she let it lead her rather to fresh consideration and to study of the materia medica. And anything -- intuition, guesswork, tossing a coin -- that does that contributes to the process of genuinely homoeopathic prescribing. The intuition in that case comprised the instant assembly of pieces of her prior knowledge regarding Lac felinum, and was clearly genuine intuition; but Jean clearly did not use it in place of the task of reference to the materia medica and consideration of the substance's similarity to the patient relative to the similarity of other substances.
Kerry, thank you for your able defence as always of the meaning of homoeopathy and your statement of our common purpose in keeping it clear. I enjoyed your term "do-a-bit-of-this-and-a bit-of-that-opath". I wonder whether it's worth pushing for certification in it for those who think it valuable.
(It differentiates itself very nicely from naturopathy, of course, in its preference for calling one thing by the name of another. Perhaps a synonym for it would be randomopathy, except that that misses the pseudopathy part. Pseudorandomopathy?)John
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
John said:
Psuedorandomopath has a nice ring to it, though it would need the letters BS after it. I'll leave to figure out what the BS stands for.
Kerry
Psuedorandomopath has a nice ring to it, though it would need the letters BS after it. I'll leave to figure out what the BS stands for.
Kerry
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Pauline Ashford
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
I had a teacher once who told me that intuition was 95% knowledge and 5% leap of faith
I know that my intuitive prescribing is when I ‘know’ the remedy and the material medica confirms it – but the ‘knowing’ has not come from guesswork rather the knowledge that I have gained and the leap of faith is that (after a certain point of study and practice)I can trust my knowledge without having to test the journey at every step.
Regards Pauline
Pauline Ashford
Maleny Homeopathy
Homeopathy, Dorn spinal and headache treatment,
Lymphatic drainage massage, Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), Reiki
130 Ansell Rd, Witta, QLD 4552
Ph 07.54944101
paulineashford@optusnet.com.au
www.malenyhomeopathy.com
Hrs Mon 12-9pm, Tues & Thurs 9-5
I know that my intuitive prescribing is when I ‘know’ the remedy and the material medica confirms it – but the ‘knowing’ has not come from guesswork rather the knowledge that I have gained and the leap of faith is that (after a certain point of study and practice)I can trust my knowledge without having to test the journey at every step.
Regards Pauline
Pauline Ashford
Maleny Homeopathy
Homeopathy, Dorn spinal and headache treatment,
Lymphatic drainage massage, Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), Reiki
130 Ansell Rd, Witta, QLD 4552
Ph 07.54944101
paulineashford@optusnet.com.au
www.malenyhomeopathy.com
Hrs Mon 12-9pm, Tues & Thurs 9-5
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Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
Some years ago, Dr Shahrdar and myself took a case together.
In my view it was a straight forward Ars case.
So I said to him - right what potency Ars shall we give her.
He said: "Did we not shake hands that we would always repertorise." "Yes of course we did." was my response.
We went on to repretorise and we knocked out Ars and prescribed another remedy which made a fantastic difference to this lady who was on first stages of MS. I would dare to say we achieved a cure.
So my intuition and 95% knowledge would have led me up the gum tree and a patient who would have not got better.
Rgds
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pauline Ashford
Sent: 24 October 2011 10:45
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
I had a teacher once who told me that intuition was 95% knowledge and 5% leap of faith
I know that my intuitive prescribing is when I ‘know’ the remedy and the material medica confirms it – but the ‘knowing’ has not come from guesswork rather the knowledge that I have gained and the leap of faith is that (after a certain point of study and practice)I can trust my knowledge without having to test the journey at every step.
Regards Pauline
Pauline Ashford
Maleny Homeopathy
Homeopathy, Dorn spinal and headache treatment,
Lymphatic drainage massage, Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), Reiki
130 Ansell Rd, Witta, QLD 4552
Ph 07.54944101
paulineashford@optusnet.com.au
www.malenyhomeopathy.com
Hrs Mon 12-9pm, Tues & Thurs 9-5
In my view it was a straight forward Ars case.
So I said to him - right what potency Ars shall we give her.
He said: "Did we not shake hands that we would always repertorise." "Yes of course we did." was my response.
We went on to repretorise and we knocked out Ars and prescribed another remedy which made a fantastic difference to this lady who was on first stages of MS. I would dare to say we achieved a cure.
So my intuition and 95% knowledge would have led me up the gum tree and a patient who would have not got better.
Rgds
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pauline Ashford
Sent: 24 October 2011 10:45
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: Intuition vs Symptoms: WAS (Fluid in the inner ear)
I had a teacher once who told me that intuition was 95% knowledge and 5% leap of faith
I know that my intuitive prescribing is when I ‘know’ the remedy and the material medica confirms it – but the ‘knowing’ has not come from guesswork rather the knowledge that I have gained and the leap of faith is that (after a certain point of study and practice)I can trust my knowledge without having to test the journey at every step.
Regards Pauline
Pauline Ashford
Maleny Homeopathy
Homeopathy, Dorn spinal and headache treatment,
Lymphatic drainage massage, Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), Reiki
130 Ansell Rd, Witta, QLD 4552
Ph 07.54944101
paulineashford@optusnet.com.au
www.malenyhomeopathy.com
Hrs Mon 12-9pm, Tues & Thurs 9-5