Hello,
Recently I was going through the Bhagavad Gita commentary in some website. The author was differently interpreting a hymn (sloka) 42 in the third chapter. That struck a chord and I realised its importance to me as a homeopathic student.
Here is the interpretation as per Sri Ramanuja , a South Indian Acharya of 10 th Century CE. ( The standard interpretation is found here )
The senses (indriya) are superior (than the body). The mind (mana) is superior than the senses. The intellect (buddhi) is superior than the mind ( since it is the one that guides it to discretion). The desire is superior than the intellect.
Then there is the will which can control the intellect or can fall to the desire.
So, by this we know, the strong desires of a patient (especially regarding company, sexual activity, reading habits, etc) are sure pointers to his personality and may help decide the constitution. These are the real mental symptoms . I think this is where a case starts.
Hahnemann's genius was in recognizing the superiority of the mentals though he did not know much about Oriental Philosophy and Indian Philosophy in particular.
If we treat the physical sx alone , that touches the body . When we take sensation and modality that touches the senses and downwards. When we treat on mental generals , that may touch the thought process and downward . But when we take up symptoms of will and mental make up, that touches the whole man.
I have just touched upon the top of the subject and the members will have more to contribute to this.
Venkat
Where desires dwell
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Where desires dwell
Hi,
These powerful observes of the human make up deserve our attention because they invested so heavily in meditation.
Please help me with translation, mind vs intellect. Mind = logic Intellect = discretion/ wisdom
Desire = will?/habits
Superior = has more power over our being? who we are?
Blessings,
Ellen
These powerful observes of the human make up deserve our attention because they invested so heavily in meditation.
Please help me with translation, mind vs intellect. Mind = logic Intellect = discretion/ wisdom
Desire = will?/habits
Superior = has more power over our being? who we are?
Blessings,
Ellen
-
Varun Gupta
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 pm
Re: Where desires dwell
Ellen
We are Spirits in clutches of energies of this world called Maya or Material Energies, and Spirit is powered by Superior i.e. God though we remain unmindful of it, till we are in its clutches...
Varun
http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
We are Spirits in clutches of energies of this world called Maya or Material Energies, and Spirit is powered by Superior i.e. God though we remain unmindful of it, till we are in its clutches...
Varun
http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
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Varun Gupta
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 pm
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Varun Gupta
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 pm
Re: Where desires dwell
Sorry, Roger didn't realize your words were for Venkat... I thought it came for my reply on it...
Varun
Varun
Re: Where desires dwell
Ellen, All,
Let me dwell for a moment on a preparatory note for the ultimate science
in as simple words as possible.
Imagine you are visiting your friend whose father has passed away. You
see the friend sitting sadly in front of her father's corpse. On seeing
you the friend cries " may dad has left me ".
What will you reply ? If you say " Hey, why do you cry ? Your father is
still here. See he is lying here " what will be her reaction ? She will
say , "No, this is may father's body. He has left !"
Is it not the moment when the truth strikes us that one is not one's
body ?
You walk home with this truth. And you keep asking " the who is the real
Ellen ?"
If I am not the body, I may be something higher. Am I my senses ? Even
while saying this you negate the question since you said they are ' my
senses'. In the same way, you said ' my mind' and ' my intellect'.
Now as they are all possessions of Ellen, the real Ellen is someone
higher and different from these but yet connected to them. Ellen is the
'Vital Principle' that Hahnemann speaks of (Or the Atma in Sanskrit) .
The inanimate one, capable of no sensation, but yet the owner of
everything.
Ellen's attribute by which she animates the body- senses- mind-
intellect is her "Vital Force" or Prana in Sanskrit. This comes and goes
with the Vital Principle. The former cannot be without the latter. The
Vital Force gives to the quartet the Vital Energy with which the
Totality of Ellen functions.
(In Organon , Hahnemann clearly talks of Vital Principle- Vital Force-
Vital Energy. These three are clearly different. But most commentators
mix them up for one meaning).
Here is a question. How does one know that the body is indeed lower than
the senses and so on ?
Ellen's body cannot recognize its boss, the senses, but the senses can
know feelings in all the five senses viz Eye, Ear, Nose, Mouth, and
skin. So senses are the real higher power.
The mind knows and processes the output of senses but the senses know of
no mind.
In the same way , the intellect controls the mind but the mind does not
even know of the intellect.
Intellect is either the slave or master of desire. If the will power is
great we overcome base instincts. If weak we succumb to them.
Venkat
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Ellen Madono wrote:
because
website.
third
a
Acharya of
here )
is
the mind
superior
to the
regarding
his
mental
though
in
take
we treat
. But
the whole
have
Let me dwell for a moment on a preparatory note for the ultimate science
in as simple words as possible.
Imagine you are visiting your friend whose father has passed away. You
see the friend sitting sadly in front of her father's corpse. On seeing
you the friend cries " may dad has left me ".
What will you reply ? If you say " Hey, why do you cry ? Your father is
still here. See he is lying here " what will be her reaction ? She will
say , "No, this is may father's body. He has left !"
Is it not the moment when the truth strikes us that one is not one's
body ?
You walk home with this truth. And you keep asking " the who is the real
Ellen ?"
If I am not the body, I may be something higher. Am I my senses ? Even
while saying this you negate the question since you said they are ' my
senses'. In the same way, you said ' my mind' and ' my intellect'.
Now as they are all possessions of Ellen, the real Ellen is someone
higher and different from these but yet connected to them. Ellen is the
'Vital Principle' that Hahnemann speaks of (Or the Atma in Sanskrit) .
The inanimate one, capable of no sensation, but yet the owner of
everything.
Ellen's attribute by which she animates the body- senses- mind-
intellect is her "Vital Force" or Prana in Sanskrit. This comes and goes
with the Vital Principle. The former cannot be without the latter. The
Vital Force gives to the quartet the Vital Energy with which the
Totality of Ellen functions.
(In Organon , Hahnemann clearly talks of Vital Principle- Vital Force-
Vital Energy. These three are clearly different. But most commentators
mix them up for one meaning).
Here is a question. How does one know that the body is indeed lower than
the senses and so on ?
Ellen's body cannot recognize its boss, the senses, but the senses can
know feelings in all the five senses viz Eye, Ear, Nose, Mouth, and
skin. So senses are the real higher power.
The mind knows and processes the output of senses but the senses know of
no mind.
In the same way , the intellect controls the mind but the mind does not
even know of the intellect.
Intellect is either the slave or master of desire. If the will power is
great we overcome base instincts. If weak we succumb to them.
Venkat
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Ellen Madono wrote:
because
website.
third
a
Acharya of
here )
is
the mind
superior
to the
regarding
his
mental
though
in
take
we treat
. But
the whole
have
-
Varun Gupta
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 pm
Re: Where desires dwell
Incredible Explanations Venkat…
Atma or Spirit is part of God himself but in clutches of Maya and senses, intellect, will, desire, body etc of all originates from one entity called Maya or Material Energies…
One of the main reasons we and other commentaries mix up Vital Principle, Vital Force and Vital Energy is because Hahnemann himself explained these things erroneously… He has talked of derangement of Vital Force in many of his aphorisms and we all treat this as one of pillars of homeopathy and use same words in our daily homeopathy routine as well as commentaries, but in reality Force can only be less or more and in its derangement or deterioration of Vital Energies… This may not seem so big a mistake at face value, but this very technical fault in his understanding of things and thus telling same to us too gives roots to various problems and makes us oblivious of many real things…
Hahnemann got close in unravelling mysteries but fell short to crack real code, apart from making many errors in his work…
Varun
http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
Atma or Spirit is part of God himself but in clutches of Maya and senses, intellect, will, desire, body etc of all originates from one entity called Maya or Material Energies…
One of the main reasons we and other commentaries mix up Vital Principle, Vital Force and Vital Energy is because Hahnemann himself explained these things erroneously… He has talked of derangement of Vital Force in many of his aphorisms and we all treat this as one of pillars of homeopathy and use same words in our daily homeopathy routine as well as commentaries, but in reality Force can only be less or more and in its derangement or deterioration of Vital Energies… This may not seem so big a mistake at face value, but this very technical fault in his understanding of things and thus telling same to us too gives roots to various problems and makes us oblivious of many real things…
Hahnemann got close in unravelling mysteries but fell short to crack real code, apart from making many errors in his work…
Varun
http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: Where desires dwell
Dear Varun
Please give us your understanding of the terms and contrast them with Hn's definitions of these terms:-
- Vital Principle,
- Vital Force and
- Vital Energy.
But so as we get our logic right - just before you start, you must understand that God does not have parts for God is a UNITY (and not a unit).
This is because if God was to have parts, God would need those parts. And as God is needless (for if God was needy would no longer be God), therefore God cannot have parts.
§ 9
In the healthy condition of man, the spiritual vital force (autocracy), the dynamis that animates the material body (organism), rules with unbounded sway, and retains all the parts of the organism in admirable, harmonious, vital operation, as regards both sensations and functions, so that our indwelling, reason-gifted mind can freely employ this living, healthy instrument for the higher purpose of our existence.
Good luck
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Varun Gupta
Sent: 19 July 2011 23:46
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Where desires dwell
Incredible Explanations Venkat…
Atma or Spirit is part of God himself but in clutches of Maya and senses, intellect, will, desire, body etc of all originates from one entity called Maya or Material Energies…
One of the main reasons we and other commentaries mix up Vital Principle, Vital Force and Vital Energy is because Hahnemann himself explained these things erroneously… He has talked of derangement of Vital Force in many of his aphorisms and we all treat this as one of pillars of homeopathy and use same words in our daily homeopathy routine as well as commentaries, but in reality Force can only be less or more and in its derangement or deterioration of Vital Energies… This may not seem so big a mistake at face value, but this very technical fault in his understanding of things and thus telling same to us too gives roots to various problems and makes us oblivious of many real things…
Hahnemann got close in unravelling mysteries but fell short to crack real code, apart from making many errors in his work…
Varun
http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
Ellen, All,
Let me dwell for a moment on a preparatory note for the ultimate science
in as simple words as possible.
Imagine you are visiting your friend whose father has passed away. You
see the friend sitting sadly in front of her father's corpse. On seeing
you the friend cries " may dad has left me ".
What will you reply ? If you say " Hey, why do you cry ? Your father is
still here. See he is lying here " what will be her reaction ? She will
say , "No, this is may father's body. He has left !"
Is it not the moment when the truth strikes us that one is not one's
body ?
You walk home with this truth. And you keep asking " the who is the real
Ellen ?"
If I am not the body, I may be something higher. Am I my senses ? Even
while saying this you negate the question since you said they are ' my
senses'. In the same way, you said ' my mind' and ' my intellect'.
Now as they are all possessions of Ellen, the real Ellen is someone
higher and different from these but yet connected to them. Ellen is the
'Vital Principle' that Hahnemann speaks of (Or the Atma in Sanskrit) .
The inanimate one, capable of no sensation, but yet the owner of
everything.
Ellen's attribute by which she animates the body- senses- mind-
intellect is her "Vital Force" or Prana in Sanskrit. This comes and goes
with the Vital Principle. The former cannot be without the latter. The
Vital Force gives to the quartet the Vital Energy with which the
Totality of Ellen functions.
(In Organon , Hahnemann clearly talks of Vital Principle- Vital Force-
Vital Energy. These three are clearly different. But most commentators
mix them up for one meaning).
Here is a question. How does one know that the body is indeed lower than
the senses and so on ?
Ellen's body cannot recognize its boss, the senses, but the senses can
know feelings in all the five senses viz Eye, Ear, Nose, Mouth, and
skin. So senses are the real higher power.
The mind knows and processes the output of senses but the senses know of
no mind.
In the same way , the intellect controls the mind but the mind does not
even know of the intellect.
Intellect is either the slave or master of desire. If the will power is
great we overcome base instincts. If weak we succumb to them.
Venkat
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com , Ellen Madono wrote:
because
website.
third
a
Acharya of
here )
is
the mind
superior
to the
regarding
his
mental
though
in
take
we treat
. But
the whole
have
Please give us your understanding of the terms and contrast them with Hn's definitions of these terms:-
- Vital Principle,
- Vital Force and
- Vital Energy.
But so as we get our logic right - just before you start, you must understand that God does not have parts for God is a UNITY (and not a unit).
This is because if God was to have parts, God would need those parts. And as God is needless (for if God was needy would no longer be God), therefore God cannot have parts.
§ 9
In the healthy condition of man, the spiritual vital force (autocracy), the dynamis that animates the material body (organism), rules with unbounded sway, and retains all the parts of the organism in admirable, harmonious, vital operation, as regards both sensations and functions, so that our indwelling, reason-gifted mind can freely employ this living, healthy instrument for the higher purpose of our existence.
Good luck
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Varun Gupta
Sent: 19 July 2011 23:46
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Where desires dwell
Incredible Explanations Venkat…
Atma or Spirit is part of God himself but in clutches of Maya and senses, intellect, will, desire, body etc of all originates from one entity called Maya or Material Energies…
One of the main reasons we and other commentaries mix up Vital Principle, Vital Force and Vital Energy is because Hahnemann himself explained these things erroneously… He has talked of derangement of Vital Force in many of his aphorisms and we all treat this as one of pillars of homeopathy and use same words in our daily homeopathy routine as well as commentaries, but in reality Force can only be less or more and in its derangement or deterioration of Vital Energies… This may not seem so big a mistake at face value, but this very technical fault in his understanding of things and thus telling same to us too gives roots to various problems and makes us oblivious of many real things…
Hahnemann got close in unravelling mysteries but fell short to crack real code, apart from making many errors in his work…
Varun
http://eyevarun.blogspot.com
Ellen, All,
Let me dwell for a moment on a preparatory note for the ultimate science
in as simple words as possible.
Imagine you are visiting your friend whose father has passed away. You
see the friend sitting sadly in front of her father's corpse. On seeing
you the friend cries " may dad has left me ".
What will you reply ? If you say " Hey, why do you cry ? Your father is
still here. See he is lying here " what will be her reaction ? She will
say , "No, this is may father's body. He has left !"
Is it not the moment when the truth strikes us that one is not one's
body ?
You walk home with this truth. And you keep asking " the who is the real
Ellen ?"
If I am not the body, I may be something higher. Am I my senses ? Even
while saying this you negate the question since you said they are ' my
senses'. In the same way, you said ' my mind' and ' my intellect'.
Now as they are all possessions of Ellen, the real Ellen is someone
higher and different from these but yet connected to them. Ellen is the
'Vital Principle' that Hahnemann speaks of (Or the Atma in Sanskrit) .
The inanimate one, capable of no sensation, but yet the owner of
everything.
Ellen's attribute by which she animates the body- senses- mind-
intellect is her "Vital Force" or Prana in Sanskrit. This comes and goes
with the Vital Principle. The former cannot be without the latter. The
Vital Force gives to the quartet the Vital Energy with which the
Totality of Ellen functions.
(In Organon , Hahnemann clearly talks of Vital Principle- Vital Force-
Vital Energy. These three are clearly different. But most commentators
mix them up for one meaning).
Here is a question. How does one know that the body is indeed lower than
the senses and so on ?
Ellen's body cannot recognize its boss, the senses, but the senses can
know feelings in all the five senses viz Eye, Ear, Nose, Mouth, and
skin. So senses are the real higher power.
The mind knows and processes the output of senses but the senses know of
no mind.
In the same way , the intellect controls the mind but the mind does not
even know of the intellect.
Intellect is either the slave or master of desire. If the will power is
great we overcome base instincts. If weak we succumb to them.
Venkat
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com , Ellen Madono wrote:
because
website.
third
a
Acharya of
here )
is
the mind
superior
to the
regarding
his
mental
though
in
take
we treat
. But
the whole
have
Re: Where desires dwell
Come sit a Vipassana meditation course (www.dhamma.org) and you can experience within yourself where desires dwell and learn how observing them eradicates them.
Roger
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Varun Gupta wrote:
Roger
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Varun Gupta wrote: