OK this is funny!!

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John Harvey
Posts: 1331
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm

OK this is funny!!

Post by John Harvey »

Andrew, you're not alone in lacking a full insight into this case, it seems. The patient himself appears to be the only one in this conversation with a sense of proportion as to the value of frittering away his life on attempts to make a skin complaint go away -- witness his generous interpretation of mistakes as opportunities to learn. Yet even he fails to demonstrate having had the benefit of any education in what it is that homoeopathy addresses, an insight that all too often is lost in the allopathic conceit that the state of the chief complaint is the chief and even only criterion of success.

I read Tanya's first response as expressing the sarcasm of outrage as to the piecemeal approach that Rochelle's post appeared to express; and, though I was surprised at its vehemence, I thought that at least it offered Rochelle an opportunity to round out the picture.

The picture appears, though, to have no subject broader than that of a skin complaint complicated by uncharitability toward the patient.

How can any rational discussion, any discussion based in the homoeopathic principle, any discussion focusing on the ideal of cure -- let alone any discussion concerning best approach to the homoeopathic treatment of this patient! -- how can any such discussion occur in the absence of all attention to the patient's symptoms; in the absence of all awareness of the patient's overall state; in utter ignorance of the patient's secondary response to the medicines tried upon him; and with no restraint whatever of the patient's understandable proclivity to repeat, in all ignorance, the dose of the medicine whose primary effect, if it is homoeopathically correct, must be to give him a fresh medicinal disease including the very symptoms he is (yes, delusionally) trying to rid himself of?

No relevant discussion of the possibly homoeopathic remedy for a patient can occur on the basis of one or two symptoms. So far, most of us here know of just one, arrogance; and that symptom itself appears to have arisen as a misinterpretation of the patient's (reasonable, I'd have said) relative disillusionment and stoicism. But what is he disillusioned about, and what has he to hope for? He is disillusioned in finding that frequent repetition of a "homoeopathic" medicine has not, thank goodness, been completely effective in suppressing his complaint of concern -- of all things, an itching skin condition! And what he has to hope for is that it will go away!

That is the criterion for successful allopathic treatment, not homoeopathic.

Misinterpretation of the patient's disdain as arrogance would be completely understandable if none of us knew better than to imagine that focusing on the patient's itching skin condition was somehow compatible with the goal of treating him homoeopathically. But we do know better. So let's step back from the itching spot on the poor bugger's skin, let's step back from his skin altogether, let's step back from the insane preoccupation with attaining allopathic ends to allopathic standards, and let's regain our vision.

That vision begins with the highest ideal of cure: rapid, gentle, permanent restoration of the health, or removal and annihilation of the disease in its whole extent, in the shortest, most reliable, and most harmless way, on easily comprehensible principles. If those principles have been so hopelessly confounded with conjectural experimentation, interpolative guesswork, and sympathetic magic as to be utterly obscured, it is not really so difficult to recover them from the mess if one recalls that the practice of homoeopathy -- that is, the possibility of practising it -- relies vitally and entirely upon a complete knowledge of the patient's state, a complete knowledge of the medicine's primary capabilities to induce a state most similar, and an appreciation of the completeness of the relationship of similarity between the two.

When that thread no longer runs through our methods, then we are incapable of finding our way anywhere, because we are already utterly lost.

Kind regards,

John


Tanya Marquette
Posts: 5602
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Tanya Marquette »

oh, okay. i misread your intention.
tanya


Rochelle Marsden
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Rochelle Marsden »

Hi John,
Andrew's post didn't reach me so at least I saw it below your post.
When I prescribed the Mez at the initial consultation I told him that this remedy was to hopefully alleviate the itch while I work out a remedy for him!! A few days later I got the following email:- I should explain that because he told me he had Candida and was on a self imposed diet ( including daily doses of turpentine mixed with sugar) I thought he should have Vega analysis of food intolerances and it came back that he was not intolerant to wheat, sugar etc but only to milk.
Hi Rochelle,
Just a quick line to let you know how I'm doing after a week like you asked...
Turns out that your call to send me to ----=-- was spot on! ...He found I'm allergic to ALL
animal's milks and it's multitude of by products made from same and, if you think about it,
this is what will have been causing my 'gone off/bad' smell, like milk gone off.
I've since stopped eating everything he said and I'm feeling a heck of a lot better thanks to
you both! Thanks a million!
I needed the Mezerium to stop the incessant scratching and itching but after only 4 days I
haven't needed it again. My skin colour is virtually almost back to
normal already!
I feel like you've both solved my 46 year old riddle that no one else has corrected and I'm
truly grateful to you both. You've turned my life around in the space of a week and I feel
I can now move on again
Blessings!>>>
I then didn't hear another peep from him until I emailed to say that it was a month since I had seen him and I would like him to make another appointment to discuss his case. I then found out that he had been using the water potency once every 4 days and he said that now had gone backwards and he couldn't afford to waste more money on another appointment. Stupidly maybe I sent him the next potency because it seemed to have done more than I expected. I then had a email exchange with him that concluded that the Mez 200 may have agg and details emerged that the 30 C succussed every time WP ( a la Luc de Schepper) was working every time he used it and I said that if he had come in to see me these details would have emerged and I wouldn't have sent the 200 but got him to repeat every 4th day (maybe to the second cup) Hence the exchange I sent to you , that he would come and see me again and his reasons!!!
I have of course not gone into details of this case other than the rash- he describes himself as an entrepreneur but is "between jobs" at the moment, trying to build up another business for himself which he is very confident about. Freedom to work for himself is very important to him which is why I am considering a Lanthanide Rx.
It will be interesting to see what emerges tomorrow :) I wonder how he treated the herbalist he saw for 2 years who also appeared to give him the homeopathic Sulphur (and Belladonna)!!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath with The Society of Homeopaths
EFT (Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk


John Harvey
Posts: 1331
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by John Harvey »

Hi, Rochelle --

Yes, disjointed communication with him has taken its toll, it seems! I think it's always helpful that a patient understand, though, that the purpose of taking a homoeopathic medicine is not to obtain any result more specific than the orderly restoration of the entire health and that attempting to push a particular result is incompatible with the first goal of taking the medicine, which is to establish a medicinal illness in place of his natural one, and entirely at odds with the ultimate end of permanent removal of all the symptoms, even those so vague or general or commonplace, such dullness or lethargy, that they've become the norm.

With that end in sight, and with an understanding of the primary (i.e. first) goal of establishing a medicinal illness rather then of getting rid of something in a hurry, he won't be motivated to take additional doses without your assurance that it's time to do so. That's been my consistent experience, though I must admit that for much of my commercial practice I also forestalled self-medication by keeping from the patient what his or medicine was. On the other hand, all of them accepted that they had no reason to think about taking another dose at their own initiative anyway. At that stage I relied on a single dose to take care of the patient for the first few months and relied on the patient not to counteract it. And not once did any of them run off to someone else who'd give them the frequent doses they'd been used to getting from the doctor -- because they understood.

Perhaps I inadvertently screened patients through this process, but it seemed obvious to me that there was no point in making a beginning on the path of homoeopathic treatment if, for mere want of understanding, the patient was going to ruin it as soon as things got interesting; so before the appointment, the patient always knew what he or her was in for: the long haul. (Even in the context of acute illness, the long haul is relevant. It's just a far shorter long haul and requires perhaps the patience of an hour rather than the patience of a month in monitoring the direction that that long haul looks like taking.) As a consequence, I faced none of this epidemic of impatience, impetuosity, and under-appreciation that practitioners bring on themselves. It made life simple for me and comprehensible and bearable for those with any patience (whom I was going to call the patient!) and appreciation for the real value of being treated genuinely holistically.

Cheers --

John
Hi Rochelle,
Just a quick line to let you know how I'm doing after a week like you asked...
Turns out that your call to send me to ----=-- was spot on! ...He found I'm allergic to ALL
animal's milks and it's multitude of by products made from same and, if you think about it,
this is what will have been causing my 'gone off/bad' smell, like milk gone off.
I've since stopped eating everything he said and I'm feeling a heck of a lot better thanks to
you both! Thanks a million!
I needed the Mezerium to stop the incessant scratching and itching but after only 4 days I
haven't needed it again. My skin colour is virtually almost back to
normal already!
I feel like you've both solved my 46 year old riddle that no one else has corrected and I'm
truly grateful to you both. You've turned my life around in the space of a week and I feel
I can now move on again
Blessings!>>>
I then didn't hear another peep from him until I emailed to say that it was a month since I had seen him and I would like him to make another appointment to discuss his case. I then found out that he had been using the water potency once every 4 days and he said that now had gone backwards and he couldn't afford to waste more money on another appointment. Stupidly maybe I sent him the next potency because it seemed to have done more than I expected. I then had a email exchange with him that concluded that the Mez 200 may have agg and details emerged that the 30 C succussed every time WP ( a la Luc de Schepper) was working every time he used it and I said that if he had come in to see me these details would have emerged and I wouldn't have sent the 200 but got him to repeat every 4th day (maybe to the second cup) Hence the exchange I sent to you , that he would come and see me again and his reasons!!!
I have of course not gone into details of this case other than the rash- he describes himself as an entrepreneur but is "between jobs" at the moment, trying to build up another business for himself which he is very confident about. Freedom to work for himself is very important to him which is why I am considering a Lanthanide Rx.
It will be interesting to see what emerges tomorrow :) I wonder how he treated the herbalist he saw for 2 years who also appeared to give him the homeopathic Sulphur (and Belladonna)!!!
Rochelle
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where it is doing the right thing, a great power should be robust against embarrassment."
—Simon Jenkins, "U.S. embassy cables: The job of the media is not to protect the powerful from embarrassment", The Guardian 28 Nov 2010, .


Victoria Mashevsky
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Victoria Mashevsky »

Nitric Acid? - they are pretty rude.
Victoria
Hi Rochelle,
Just a quick line to let you know how I'm doing after a week like you asked...
Turns out that your call to send me to ----=-- was spot on! ...He found I'm allergic to ALL
animal's milks and it's multitude of by products made from same and, if you think about it,
this is what will have been causing my 'gone off/bad' smell, like milk gone off.
I've since stopped eating everything he said and I'm feeling a heck of a lot better thanks to
you both! Thanks a million!
I needed the Mezerium to stop the incessant scratching and itching but after only 4 days I
haven't needed it again. My skin colour is virtually almost back to
normal already!
I feel like you've both solved my 46 year old riddle that no one else has corrected and I'm
truly grateful to you both. You've turned my life around in the space of a week and I feel
I can now move on again
Blessings!>>>
I then didn't hear another peep from him until I emailed to say that it was a month since I had seen him and I would like him to make another appointment to discuss his case. I then found out that he had been using the water potency once every 4 days and he said that now had gone backwards and he couldn't afford to waste more money on another appointment. Stupidly maybe I sent him the next potency because it seemed to have done more than I expected. I then had a email exchange with him that concluded that the Mez 200 may have agg and details emerged that the 30 C succussed every time WP ( a la Luc de Schepper) was working every time he used it and I said that if he had come in to see me these details would have emerged and I wouldn't have sent the 200 but got him to repeat every 4th day (maybe to the second cup) Hence the exchange I sent to you , that he would come and see me again and his reasons!!!
I have of course not gone into details of this case other than the rash- he describes himself as an entrepreneur but is "between jobs" at the moment, trying to build up another business for himself which he is very confident about. Freedom to work for himself is very important to him which is why I am considering a Lanthanide Rx.
It will be interesting to see what emerges tomorrow :) I wonder how he treated the herbalist he saw for 2 years who also appeared to give him the homeopathic Sulphur (and Belladonna)!!!
Rochelle


Leilanae
Posts: 1073
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Leilanae »

Hi Rochelle,

Would his comments be considered "censorious"?

Leilanae

----------------------------


Rochelle Marsden
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Rochelle Marsden »

Thanks for the suggestion Leilanae - It seems to tick the boxes of the Rx that I am looking at!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath with The Society of Homeopaths
EFT (Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
Hi Rochelle,

Would his comments be considered "censorious"?

Leilanae

----------------------------


Theresa Partington
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Theresa Partington »

Hi Rochelle
In some ways what he is saying may be what a lot of people think when they don't get a miracle cure straightaway. He could be trying to put you down or he could just be totally lacking in people skills. Most people would just walk away and go somewhere else or phrase it differently. After all, why do we have review appointments? To see how someone is getting on and modify/change a prescription and, yes, when I have been on phone and email to people for a few weeks I do feel that they should come and see me and pay me! He is not wrong in that respect.
Some people lack the will or ability to empathise and see the effect of their remarks on other people. If they lack the will it is known as rudeness if they lack the ability then that is something else..
Perhaps you should leave the ball in his court. He has had some benefit from the remedies, it seems, so he may have to look again at what he wants and how best to get it.i.e. being a bit politer to you even if he can't really see the necessity. (incidentally, I thought of Lyco and Sulph, too).
Theresa

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Rochelle Marsden" wrote:


Rochelle Marsden
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by Rochelle Marsden »

Dear Theresa,
I think a lot of his problem at the moment is frustration. Frustration that he has tried yet another alternative therapy and hasn't got instant results. Frustration that he doesn't have money coming in as he is in the process of setting up another business etc. I think he a person who expects instant results.
"I don't like working for other people . I know more than them"
Normally I make a future appointment when someone is with me but with him I didn't . I can't remember if it was because he didn't have his diary with him /didn't know what he would be doing in a month's time etc. However in spite of me asking him to keep in touch with me re what was happening with the remedy- basically he didn't - other than initial communication where he said everything was fantastic!! I think he has now understood that how was I to know any different and advise him further if he hadn't told me what was going on. My initial plan was to send him a constitutional remedy when I had worked on his case but that never happened because of the email that said how well everything went with the initial doses of the Mez. I obviously then left it!!
However I work out a remedy for him but because of all the communication with him it has given me a greater insight into him and I have now changed my mind!! Sulphur and Lyco tick all the because for him now. Since he was given Sulphur by a herbalist I want to stay clear of it and so will probably give him Lyco 1M - one dose while he is with me!!
Watch this space!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath with The Society of Homeopaths
EFT (Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk


SMS
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: OK this is funny!!

Post by SMS »

Hi Rochelle,
I'm not a homeopath - my background is in Psychology. But...it seems to me that the root cause of this client's attitude is related to a lack of trust in people due to previous disappointments. It's like he's asking you to prove to him that your intentions are good. He's personalizing your relationship and replaying past injustices so he can be the victim again. I also read somewhere that certain skin diseases are developed subconsciously in order to keep other people away - a self protection mechanism. I don't know how true this is, but it's worth exploring. Good luck!
Blessings,
Ana

Sent from my iPhone


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