An ethical challenge to combination prescribers [Was: combo meds'; combo rmeds; SPAM -- combo meds]

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

When you attend a school, you tend to rely on the teachers to tell you the reality of the subject you study.
I am looking at 3 different school types, especially in continental Europe: Unicists = the single one remedy approach, Pluralists = multiple remedies, the same day but at different times, each one separately , and Complexists = multiple remedies in the same bottle, the choice of those remedies being individualised.
Each of those schools uses the Organon and the Chronic Diseases as the basis of their practices.....it is HOW they read it and interpret the sentences and the aphorisms that makes the difference.
And each school is adamant they are practicing Hahnemaniann homeopathy........
Joe.
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

I understand what you mean.
It then boils down to the patient to research the homeopath, and in doing so, it means the patient should acquire a good knowledge of what homeopathy is supposed to be, what the different ways to practice are kosher or not and to whom are they kosher and acceptable, according to which criterias........
How many patients do you know would do that research properly? Although they would probably do a lot more when looking for a new TV...........
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Shannon Nelson]

Does that (giving multiple remedies but feeling they are being Hahnemannian) turn on the issue of "one remedy per disease" vs. "one remedy per patient", by any chance?

Shannon
When you attend a school, you tend to rely on the teachers to tell you the reality of the subject you study.
I am looking at 3 different school types, especially in continental Europe: Unicists = the single one remedy approach, Pluralists = multiple remedies, the same day but at different times, each one separately , and Complexists = multiple remedies in the same bottle, the choice of those remedies being individualised.
Each of those schools uses the Organon and the Chronic Diseases as the basis of their practices.....it is HOW they read it and interpret the sentences and the aphorisms that makes the difference.
And each school is adamant they are practicing Hahnemaniann homeopathy........
Joe.
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[John Harvey]

No, it turns upon stepping into another yet rabbit hole you could have avoided.

Look, it's one thing to debate this stuff in the comforting delusion that it doesn't affect you. But try looking at it in operation in real life.

I know an aircraft engineer, for instance, who doesn't bother with the maintenance procedures in the manual. "Not necessary", he says. Instead, he writes on a PostIt note "Fly safe" and sticks it to the underside of the wing, just next to the engine's air intake. Works every time, he says. He was taught this method of "maintenance" by his teacher, who was taught it by his, who was a highly respected colleague of Amelia Earhart.

Now, I'd call him a hopeful, but he represents himself as an aircraft engineer, and everybody around him calls him that too.

Is he fulfilling his responsibility as an aircraft engineer, or is he being criminally and morally irresponsible? Is the answer to that subject to what you feel like and what you think is sufficient aircraft-maintenance, or is it subject only to what the title "aircraft engineer" requires him to perform? Will YOU step confidently onto that plane because if Amelia Earhart says this guy's methods are good enough, then they meet YOUR standard of aircraft maintenance? And if you will, will you entrust your child to that airline on that basis?

John
When you attend a school, you tend to rely on the teachers to tell you the reality of the subject you study.
I am looking at 3 different school types, especially in continental Europe: Unicists = the single one remedy approach, Pluralists = multiple remedies, the same day but at different times, each one separately , and Complexists = multiple remedies in the same bottle, the choice of those remedies being individualised.
Each of those schools uses the Organon and the Chronic Diseases as the basis of their practices.....it is HOW they read it and interpret the sentences and the aphorisms that makes the difference.
And each school is adamant they are practicing Hahnemaniann homeopathy........

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"Because we're supposed to have an open government—a democracy—everything the Government does is presumptively public, and can be legitimately concealed only with compelling justifications. That's not just some lofty, abstract theory; it's central to having anything resembling 'consent of the governed'."
—Glenn Greenwald, "The moral standards of WikiLeaks critics", Salon.com 1 Dec 2010, .

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Yes, that is one of the arguments.
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Shannon Nelson]

John, if you are so concerned that these practices may be doing harm, don't you owe it to yourself and to those to whom you give guidance, to seek out and examine *evidence*? For decades I have wished that "we"--this list, other lists, the (particularly classical) homeopathy community--could really, truly put aside rancor, ego, need to be "right", biases, blinkers, blinders; cast aside name-calling, insecurity, aggression, rudeness; and invite *cases* of the different "schools of homeopathy" (yes I know that term is repugnant to some of us)--cases with detailed, long-term follow-up--and *examine* them to see just how the outcomes compare.

To my mind, unless and until that is done, there's really NO BASIS for this sort of mud-slinging.

Without that kind of comparison and analysis, the best one can do--and ALL that most of us here ought to be doing--is to say, "Acccording to Hahnemann's findings," etc. We have NO BASIS for slamming other methods THAT WE AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH.

Your analogy *might* apply to *some* practitioners. But to *assume* that it applies to anyone who's using a method that goes against your beliefs? No..... John, that attitude is not scientific or careful or thoughtful.

It may be that, after studying an *appropriate* number of cases presented by a practitioner of another method, you might feel even more strongly that your censure is appropriate. In that case, at least there is something concrete to talk about, not this same ol' "dueling theories"!

Shannon
When you attend a school, you tend to rely on the teachers to tell you the reality of the subject you study.
I am looking at 3 different school types, especially in continental Europe: Unicists = the single one remedy approach, Pluralists = multiple remedies, the same day but at different times, each one separately , and Complexists = multiple remedies in the same bottle, the choice of those remedies being individualised.
Each of those schools uses the Organon and the Chronic Diseases as the basis of their practices.....it is HOW they read it and interpret the sentences and the aphorisms that makes the difference.
And each school is adamant they are practicing Hahnemaniann homeopathy........

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dr Joe
Please can you give these references from Organon and CD.
Rgds

Soroush
________________________________

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
Sent: 06 December 2010 22:52
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Re: An ethical challenge to combination prescribers [Was: "combo meds'; "combo rmeds"; "SPAM -- combo meds"]
When you attend a school, you tend to rely on the teachers to tell you the reality of the subject you study.
I am looking at 3 different school types, especially in continental Europe: Unicists = the single one remedy approach, Pluralists = multiple remedies, the same day but at different times, each one separately , and Complexists = multiple remedies in the same bottle, the choice of those remedies being individualised.
Each of those schools uses the Organon and the Chronic Diseases as the basis of their practices.....it is HOW they read it and interpret the sentences and the aphorisms that makes the difference.

And each school is adamant they are practicing Hahnemaniann homeopathy........
Joe.

 

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

As much as memory serves me, it has been around 15 years that I learned that....... And I cannot quote the aphorisms.
Treating one disease at a time (the "krankheit" in the Organon)
There can be multiple diseases either present at the same time or associating to form a new entity
A stronger disease will make the symptoms of a weaker one disappear until it is removed, then the old symptoms will reappear.
Based (more or less) on that, the argument was that if you can recognise the different diseases, especially if they are present at different levels, you should treat them all.
So you would take one remedy for a physical ailment, another for the one that was present before the actual one appeared, one remedy for a mental/emotional problem and then some teachers crow the thing by giving a "constitutional" remedy and/or a "miasmatic" remedy.
Without digging back in books and notes (if I can find them) that is about what I can say. But note that those are almost the same arguments used by Rudi Verspoor's Heilkunst methodology.......
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

[Sue Boyle]

I have a suggestion. What if, instead of rehashing this particular argument, every six months or so, we work within the community to strengthen homeopathy, like the YouTube video from the UK proposed ??

BTW John, there was a summit held in Toronto and here is the definition of homeopathy they adopted for the Standards and Competencies document for education of homeopaths in North America. Homeopathy is the art and science of healing as elucidated by Samuel Hahnemann, in the manner described in the Organon of Medicine, using homeopathic remedies to assist the body in healing itself. Does this definition further your tantrum or just increase the number of emails I will be deleting in the future? Really am tired of the argument that never ends.

Sue

[John Harvey]

No, Shannon, I don't owe it to anybody to prove that any other method is unsafe. You've entirely missed the point. And I can see that my final questions about how safe you'd feel on the aircraft are responsible for that. I hereby withdraw them. But I hope you can see the main issue in that analogy.

My purpose in raising the methods of this "aircraft engineer" was not to slam him for them. He has a good heart; he really believes in them. And, according to the most elegant testimony here by you, Liz, and several others, they actually work! But that's entirely beside the point.

For the sake of clarity, let me grant that they do "work": that all of his planes have actually taken off as they were meant to after he did his Post It trick. My cricitism is unaltered. And that's because what he performs with a pencil and a Post It note is not "aircraft maintenance" as he is expected to conduct because of how he represents himself. Albeit with the best of intentions, he is misrepresenting what he is doing as what we all expect to be done in the name of rigorous aircraft maintenance.

My point in asking whether you're happy to fly on that basis is that when he subjects your life to the risk that hangs on his beliefs, he does so without your informed consent. And that is exactly what your polypharmaceutical buddies do when they sling "combos" at patients without informing them that they are not practising that historically eminently proven medicine homoeopathy but instead something that they believe is just as good.

Yes, I've heard all the excuses: homoeopathy no longer works, it's too hard, there aren't enough remedies, you name it. But when you say you're a homoeopath, it means something; it implicitly promises that you will practise homoeopathically. That does not mean using potencies. It does not mean using Kent. But it does mean using the law of similars in relations to the patient's entire illness, with the highest possible aim in mind. And it's singularly unavoidable that to call yourself a homoeopath but prescribe medicines on some other basis is to practise a base deception. A homoeopath can be trusted because she uses the methods that the world has known for two centuries are utterly safe and, surprisingly, also effective. Therefore it is advantageous for somebody practising other forms of medicine to call herself a homoeopath. But is it right?

Cheers --

John
When you attend a school, you tend to rely on the teachers to tell you the reality of the subject you study.
I am looking at 3 different school types, especially in continental Europe: Unicists = the single one remedy approach, Pluralists = multiple remedies, the same day but at different times, each one separately , and Complexists = multiple remedies in the same bottle, the choice of those remedies being individualised.
Each of those schools uses the Organon and the Chronic Diseases as the basis of their practices.....it is HOW they read it and interpret the sentences and the aphorisms that makes the difference.
And each school is adamant they are practicing Hahnemaniann homeopathy........