Hi,
My mum's dog is very old, maybe 18 yrs old. It's near blind, loses it's sense of direction, peeing and pooing everywhere, sleeping long hours everyday and not interested in anything around it anymore. It has a very big 'lump' at the back of his rear, once we squeezed it, it deflats and upon release, it balloons up again. We don't know what is it but it doesn't seem to give the dog any pain.
My brother has been thinking of putting it to sleep but having an emotional struggle within him.
May I know if there is a homeopathic way of putting dog to sleep to minimise any suffering?
--
Priscilla
Unless the Lord builds the house, it's builders labour in vain. Psalms 127:1
putting old dog to sleep
Re: putting old dog to sleep
Yes; some folks use Arsenic 1M repeatedly. It produces a euphoric, calm state, and then they just go to sleep. You'd need to do it for a couple of days, and you'd need to get the remedy from a homeopath, as it's not commonly available to lay persons.
I just helped my 14 year old dog to transition, but we just did it chemically, as I didn't have the potency. There was no trauma, just peace.
I hope someone around me when my time comes knows this...
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
________________________________
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: priscillasohsh@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:55:36 +0800
Subject: [Minutus] putting old dog to sleep
Hi,
My mum's dog is very old, maybe 18 yrs old. It's near blind, loses it's sense of direction, peeing and pooing everywhere, sleeping long hours everyday and not interested in anything around it anymore. It has a very big 'lump' at the back of his rear, once we squeezed it, it deflats and upon release, it balloons up again. We don't know what is it but it doesn't seem to give the dog any pain.
My brother has been thinking of putting it to sleep but having an emotional struggle within him.
May I know if there is a homeopathic way of putting dog to sleep to minimise any suffering?
-
I just helped my 14 year old dog to transition, but we just did it chemically, as I didn't have the potency. There was no trauma, just peace.
I hope someone around me when my time comes knows this...
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
________________________________
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: priscillasohsh@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:55:36 +0800
Subject: [Minutus] putting old dog to sleep
Hi,
My mum's dog is very old, maybe 18 yrs old. It's near blind, loses it's sense of direction, peeing and pooing everywhere, sleeping long hours everyday and not interested in anything around it anymore. It has a very big 'lump' at the back of his rear, once we squeezed it, it deflats and upon release, it balloons up again. We don't know what is it but it doesn't seem to give the dog any pain.
My brother has been thinking of putting it to sleep but having an emotional struggle within him.
May I know if there is a homeopathic way of putting dog to sleep to minimise any suffering?
-
-
John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: putting old dog to sleep
Sorry to be disagreeable about this, but the suggestion that homoeopathy can be used to kill a dog with "no trauma, just peace" is offensive to anybody who understands homoeopathy and anybody who cares to avoid doing harm.
Homoeopathy doesn't use any substance, crude or in potency, to achieve any particular effect, let alone to bring about death. It uses instead the organism's own healing response to the substance most similar in its effects to the organism's present state.
Using any substance's primary effects to oppose the present natural state is technically enantiopathy, the more rational side of allopathy. Using any substance's primary effects to effect a state unrelated to the patient's symptoms -- such as death -- is pure allopathy.
Whether the substance has been through some degree of dynamisation is irrelevant to its allopathicity. What makes a treatment homoeopathic is always and only the relationship of similarity between the primary symptoms and the natural ones; not its dynamisation, and certainly not any tradition of use in particular circumstances. Leave traditions to those without a knowledge of substances' pathogeneticity.
The use of arsenic trioxide in repeated doses, whether it be ultramolecular -- as in any centesimal potency from 12 up -- or crude, as Ginny has suggested she did with her dog, to attempt to bring about death manifests a grave corruption of the Hippocratic Oath and a fundamental misunderstanding in particular of homoeopathy, which of all branches of medicine is supremely capable of adhering to that oath because it only uses healing reactions, not primary effects, to fulfil its purposes.
The corruption derives from a routinist approach to the use of remedies "for" particular ailments -- in this case, applying that routinist approach to the dying. The origin of the use of Arsenicum in some such cases (and the use of other remedies in others) is its homoeopathicity to those cases. When arsenic is most homoeopathic to those cases, it will induce whatever healing response is possible, and thereby reduce suffering -- not kill the dog!
Understand what homoeopathy is before you undertake to use it, and you won't make the mistake of imagining there to be a homoeopathic painkiller, wart remover, or flu remedy, let alone a homoeopathic remedy to "help" anyone to "transition".
Incidentally, if the primary response to the remedy homoeopathic to a patient's state has ever actually been extreme enough to kill the patient (and I'm not convinced it's every occurred, despite Kent's warnings, but I know of no theoretical reason it could not be induced, especially with repeated doses in unchanged potency), that process of dying will not be the gentle one you would like for yourself, but one that merely aggravates the suffering already present. The point of using in the dying that remedy most homoeopathic to the patient's present state is not to induce symptoms through ignorant repetition, but to induce the patient's secondary healing response -- as always.
Kind regards,
John
________________________________
Homoeopathy doesn't use any substance, crude or in potency, to achieve any particular effect, let alone to bring about death. It uses instead the organism's own healing response to the substance most similar in its effects to the organism's present state.
Using any substance's primary effects to oppose the present natural state is technically enantiopathy, the more rational side of allopathy. Using any substance's primary effects to effect a state unrelated to the patient's symptoms -- such as death -- is pure allopathy.
Whether the substance has been through some degree of dynamisation is irrelevant to its allopathicity. What makes a treatment homoeopathic is always and only the relationship of similarity between the primary symptoms and the natural ones; not its dynamisation, and certainly not any tradition of use in particular circumstances. Leave traditions to those without a knowledge of substances' pathogeneticity.
The use of arsenic trioxide in repeated doses, whether it be ultramolecular -- as in any centesimal potency from 12 up -- or crude, as Ginny has suggested she did with her dog, to attempt to bring about death manifests a grave corruption of the Hippocratic Oath and a fundamental misunderstanding in particular of homoeopathy, which of all branches of medicine is supremely capable of adhering to that oath because it only uses healing reactions, not primary effects, to fulfil its purposes.
The corruption derives from a routinist approach to the use of remedies "for" particular ailments -- in this case, applying that routinist approach to the dying. The origin of the use of Arsenicum in some such cases (and the use of other remedies in others) is its homoeopathicity to those cases. When arsenic is most homoeopathic to those cases, it will induce whatever healing response is possible, and thereby reduce suffering -- not kill the dog!
Understand what homoeopathy is before you undertake to use it, and you won't make the mistake of imagining there to be a homoeopathic painkiller, wart remover, or flu remedy, let alone a homoeopathic remedy to "help" anyone to "transition".
Incidentally, if the primary response to the remedy homoeopathic to a patient's state has ever actually been extreme enough to kill the patient (and I'm not convinced it's every occurred, despite Kent's warnings, but I know of no theoretical reason it could not be induced, especially with repeated doses in unchanged potency), that process of dying will not be the gentle one you would like for yourself, but one that merely aggravates the suffering already present. The point of using in the dying that remedy most homoeopathic to the patient's present state is not to induce symptoms through ignorant repetition, but to induce the patient's secondary healing response -- as always.
Kind regards,
John
________________________________
Re: putting old dog to sleep
Thanks for your response, John. I ask that you note that in my original post, I carefully stated that I assisted my own dog with chemical euthanasia, not Ars, and it was this passing to which I referred as "no trauma, just peace".
I well understand the purpose and application of homeopathy, but this method, although outside the theory of cure, is and has been used and recommended by some of your respected peers - not mine, as I am only a student.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
________________________________
Sorry to be disagreeable about this, but the suggestion that homoeopathy can be used to kill a dog with "no trauma, just peace" is offensive to anybody who understands homoeopathy and anybody who cares to avoid doing harm.
.....
Understand what homoeopathy is before you undertake to use it, and you won't make the mistake of imagining there to be a homoeopathic painkiller, wart remover, or flu remedy, let alone a homoeopathic remedy to "help" anyone to "transition".
Kind regards,
John
I well understand the purpose and application of homeopathy, but this method, although outside the theory of cure, is and has been used and recommended by some of your respected peers - not mine, as I am only a student.
ginny
All stunts performed without a net!
________________________________
Sorry to be disagreeable about this, but the suggestion that homoeopathy can be used to kill a dog with "no trauma, just peace" is offensive to anybody who understands homoeopathy and anybody who cares to avoid doing harm.
.....
Understand what homoeopathy is before you undertake to use it, and you won't make the mistake of imagining there to be a homoeopathic painkiller, wart remover, or flu remedy, let alone a homoeopathic remedy to "help" anyone to "transition".
Kind regards,
John
-
Liz Brynin
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:00 pm
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: putting old dog to sleep
I must agree with John here.
The "traditional" use of Ars Alb in potency to "facilitate transition" (a PC way to write euthanasia) stems from the use of this remedy to alleviate the fear, the terror, the panic that overwhelms many unprepared people at the approach of death, hence allowing them to let go and die peacefully in their own time, as a natural process and not as a terrifying event. And there are other remedies useful at that time, depending on the patient's symptoms and needs.
In my experience, animals are not afraid of death. We recently lost our Mother Queen cat to liver failure, probably acquired through poisons when "visiting" neighbours. As she was going down despite all the treatments, one of those times when I felt totally powerless, it was US who could not let go.........so amazingly she pulled back slightly, appeared to get a wee bit better, just to please us, until she could no do it any more, waited until the morning and died in our presence.
Yes, I am aware that this is projecting human emotions and actions on a cat and not believable for many, but the whole family had the same exact feeling.
So if your animal is suffering, alleviate the pain, treat the apparent symptoms, tell him that he is free to go whenever he chooses to, and you will see what peaceful dying means.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
The "traditional" use of Ars Alb in potency to "facilitate transition" (a PC way to write euthanasia) stems from the use of this remedy to alleviate the fear, the terror, the panic that overwhelms many unprepared people at the approach of death, hence allowing them to let go and die peacefully in their own time, as a natural process and not as a terrifying event. And there are other remedies useful at that time, depending on the patient's symptoms and needs.
In my experience, animals are not afraid of death. We recently lost our Mother Queen cat to liver failure, probably acquired through poisons when "visiting" neighbours. As she was going down despite all the treatments, one of those times when I felt totally powerless, it was US who could not let go.........so amazingly she pulled back slightly, appeared to get a wee bit better, just to please us, until she could no do it any more, waited until the morning and died in our presence.
Yes, I am aware that this is projecting human emotions and actions on a cat and not believable for many, but the whole family had the same exact feeling.
So if your animal is suffering, alleviate the pain, treat the apparent symptoms, tell him that he is free to go whenever he chooses to, and you will see what peaceful dying means.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
Re: putting old dog to sleep
i kind of believed the same, that an animal would not likely experience fear at death. a few years ago i thought it would be more humane to let my cat die in my home, rather than subject him to a traumatic trip to the vet for euthanasia. everyone i knew assured me it woudl be fast and peaceful, based upon what they had seen. instead, once it was too late to take another path, it became clear to me that this cat was beyond terrified and fighting death with every bit of strength he had. watching his death terrified my family and actual still sickens me, the thought of it. although i was already in my homeopathic studies at the time, i did not think of easing his troubles with Ars. i suspect that it would have helped him a good deal. yikes.
________________________________
From: "Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD."
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 4:11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] putting old dog to sleep
I must agree with John here.
The "traditional" use of Ars Alb in potency to "facilitate transition" (a PC way to write euthanasia) stems from the use of this remedy to alleviate the fear, the terror, the panic that overwhelms many unprepared people at the approach of death, hence allowing them to let go and die peacefully in their own time, as a natural process and not as a terrifying event. And there are other remedies useful at that time, depending on the patient's symptoms and needs.
In my experience, animals are not afraid of death. We recently lost our Mother Queen cat to liver failure, probably acquired through poisons when "visiting" neighbours. As she was going down despite all the treatments, one of those times when I felt totally powerless, it was US who could not let go.........so amazingly she pulled back slightly, appeared to get a wee bit better, just to please us, until she could no do it any more, waited until the morning and died in our presence.
Yes, I am aware that this is projecting human emotions and actions on a cat and not believable for many, but the whole family had the same exact feeling.
So if your animal is suffering, alleviate the pain, treat the apparent symptoms, tell him that he is free to go whenever he chooses to, and you will see what peaceful dying means.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica. webs.com
________________________________
From: "Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD."
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 4:11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Minutus] putting old dog to sleep
I must agree with John here.
The "traditional" use of Ars Alb in potency to "facilitate transition" (a PC way to write euthanasia) stems from the use of this remedy to alleviate the fear, the terror, the panic that overwhelms many unprepared people at the approach of death, hence allowing them to let go and die peacefully in their own time, as a natural process and not as a terrifying event. And there are other remedies useful at that time, depending on the patient's symptoms and needs.
In my experience, animals are not afraid of death. We recently lost our Mother Queen cat to liver failure, probably acquired through poisons when "visiting" neighbours. As she was going down despite all the treatments, one of those times when I felt totally powerless, it was US who could not let go.........so amazingly she pulled back slightly, appeared to get a wee bit better, just to please us, until she could no do it any more, waited until the morning and died in our presence.
Yes, I am aware that this is projecting human emotions and actions on a cat and not believable for many, but the whole family had the same exact feeling.
So if your animal is suffering, alleviate the pain, treat the apparent symptoms, tell him that he is free to go whenever he chooses to, and you will see what peaceful dying means.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica. webs.com
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: putting old dog to sleep
i do so agree with you.
when my cat transitioned at 17, i called her back. she returned for about 15 months.
when she was at her end, a communicator told me that my cat said she was ready to go now but
would try to stay for me--she knew i was not ready. i must say that i learned some very important
things from this cat about pure love and intention. before she passed, my neighbor drove by
my house. later she told me she saw my cat as a kitten romping around. her spirit was already
leaving the body. the neighbor did not know that my dear puss was, in reality, leaving.
tanya
I must agree with John here.
The "traditional" use of Ars Alb in potency to "facilitate transition" (a PC way to write euthanasia) stems from the use of this remedy to alleviate the fear, the terror, the panic that overwhelms many unprepared people at the approach of death, hence allowing them to let go and die peacefully in their own time, as a natural process and not as a terrifying event. And there are other remedies useful at that time, depending on the patient's symptoms and needs.
In my experience, animals are not afraid of death. We recently lost our Mother Queen cat to liver failure, probably acquired through poisons when "visiting" neighbours. As she was going down despite all the treatments, one of those times when I felt totally powerless, it was US who could not let go.........so amazingly she pulled back slightly, appeared to get a wee bit better, just to please us, until she could no do it any more, waited until the morning and died in our presence.
Yes, I am aware that this is projecting human emotions and actions on a cat and not believable for many, but the whole family had the same exact feeling.
So if your animal is suffering, alleviate the pain, treat the apparent symptoms, tell him that he is free to go whenever he chooses to, and you will see what peaceful dying means.
??? ???
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
when my cat transitioned at 17, i called her back. she returned for about 15 months.
when she was at her end, a communicator told me that my cat said she was ready to go now but
would try to stay for me--she knew i was not ready. i must say that i learned some very important
things from this cat about pure love and intention. before she passed, my neighbor drove by
my house. later she told me she saw my cat as a kitten romping around. her spirit was already
leaving the body. the neighbor did not know that my dear puss was, in reality, leaving.
tanya
I must agree with John here.
The "traditional" use of Ars Alb in potency to "facilitate transition" (a PC way to write euthanasia) stems from the use of this remedy to alleviate the fear, the terror, the panic that overwhelms many unprepared people at the approach of death, hence allowing them to let go and die peacefully in their own time, as a natural process and not as a terrifying event. And there are other remedies useful at that time, depending on the patient's symptoms and needs.
In my experience, animals are not afraid of death. We recently lost our Mother Queen cat to liver failure, probably acquired through poisons when "visiting" neighbours. As she was going down despite all the treatments, one of those times when I felt totally powerless, it was US who could not let go.........so amazingly she pulled back slightly, appeared to get a wee bit better, just to please us, until she could no do it any more, waited until the morning and died in our presence.
Yes, I am aware that this is projecting human emotions and actions on a cat and not believable for many, but the whole family had the same exact feeling.
So if your animal is suffering, alleviate the pain, treat the apparent symptoms, tell him that he is free to go whenever he chooses to, and you will see what peaceful dying means.
??? ???
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
-
John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: putting old dog to sleep
Hello, Ginny --
What you call "this method", is, to spell it out longhand, "this method of causing a painless death". Homoeopathy has no method of causing a painless death, and the misunderstanding that it does can only interfere with understanding of its sole general principle, which is to stimulate the most similar symptoms to those the patient is already experiencing.
You'll see that Dr Rozencwajg has added the detail of what respected homoeopaths were really doing with Ars. and other remedies, which was to treat homoeopathically rather than to attempt to institute death. Please do try to arrive at the fundamental difference, if what we've said is enough, or help us all to see the difficulty in doing so, and to tease out what I think is an unhelpful historical confusion -- unhelpful to you and doubtless to others. The difference lies between seeking a fatal agent and seeking an agent able to mimic the patient's state. Once you've perceived that difference (as you probably have already), you'll doubtless perceive that the two are worlds apart, and the confusion will never arise again.
Incidentally, every element or compound, including arsenic trioxide, is a chemical, and I had no reason to think that you would imagine that arsenic trioxide is not a chemical. When you stated, "... we just did it chemically, as I didn't have the potency", it suggested to me (as I stated) that you were using crude (chemical) arsenic trioxide rather than the potency. "We did it using another chemical" would have made your intent clearer. My apologies.
Cheers --
John
________________________________
What you call "this method", is, to spell it out longhand, "this method of causing a painless death". Homoeopathy has no method of causing a painless death, and the misunderstanding that it does can only interfere with understanding of its sole general principle, which is to stimulate the most similar symptoms to those the patient is already experiencing.
You'll see that Dr Rozencwajg has added the detail of what respected homoeopaths were really doing with Ars. and other remedies, which was to treat homoeopathically rather than to attempt to institute death. Please do try to arrive at the fundamental difference, if what we've said is enough, or help us all to see the difficulty in doing so, and to tease out what I think is an unhelpful historical confusion -- unhelpful to you and doubtless to others. The difference lies between seeking a fatal agent and seeking an agent able to mimic the patient's state. Once you've perceived that difference (as you probably have already), you'll doubtless perceive that the two are worlds apart, and the confusion will never arise again.
Incidentally, every element or compound, including arsenic trioxide, is a chemical, and I had no reason to think that you would imagine that arsenic trioxide is not a chemical. When you stated, "... we just did it chemically, as I didn't have the potency", it suggested to me (as I stated) that you were using crude (chemical) arsenic trioxide rather than the potency. "We did it using another chemical" would have made your intent clearer. My apologies.
Cheers --
John
________________________________
-
John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: putting old dog to sleep
I neglected to add my thanks to Liz and Dr Roz. Rachel, it sounds like a terrible thing to have seen, and I well understand your wish to have eased the cat's suffering. Perhaps Ars. would have been similar enough to do that. We can only act on our present understanding, though; not having perceived the possibility at the time, you weren't in a position to make that choice.
Cheers --
John
________________________________
Cheers --
John
________________________________