Aph 56 - Organon 6

[Shannon Nelson]

Joy, honestly I do not understand why these days you are determined to take everything I write in the worst possible way??? I thought I was only stating the obvious: that if the *symptoms* call for the remedy made from (what is presumed to be) the isode--the thing that caused the problem--e.g. if someone presumed to be suffering from mercury poisoning is also displaying symptoms of mercurius, such that a homeopath who knew *nothing* of the presumed poisoning, but was proceeding only on basis of the symptom picture, would prescribe mercurius, then it should be given. The fact that it might also be seen as an isode does not negate its homeopathicity.

From what I was taught, this is not *usually* what happens; *usually* the effect of the poisoning interacts with the person's broader, preexisting susceptibility, giving rise to a symptom picture which calls for a different remedy; usually a homeopathic response will address susceptibility, as well as "the story." But sometimes the isode is also the homeopathic remedy.

Which part of this are you disagreeing with, and in what way do you see this as an effort to "transmogrify homeopathy"?

Shannon
(baffled again)

[Joy Lucas]

What is homeopathic about taking a substance from someone (human or otherwise), potentising it and giving it to same someone? And where does Hahnemann tell us to do that? What you are giving as an example isn't isopathy.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Shannon Nelson]

I'll just add a PS, that it's been often written here, probably by yourself as well as numerous others, that what makes a "homeopathic remedy" *homeopathic* is not "what it is" (including e.g. isode or otherwise), but rather the manner in which is suits the case (symptom similarity or something else); and what differentiates homeopathy from other methods is not what is given (e.g. homeopaths can use herbs and whatever), but instead how it is chosen (symptom similarity or something else).

Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

What is "or something else"? I'll just use the sx similarity reference - as per my other post this then (what you've written) wouldn't be isopathy so what point are you trying to make.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Shannon Nelson]

Joy, again you are being just determined to mis-read my posts to support your current beliefs about my supposed war on homeopathy. (NOT !!!!!!!!!!)

Please re-read what I *did* write. I wrote: "what differentiates homeopathy from other methods is not what is given (e.g. homeopaths can use herbs and whatever), but instead how it is chosen (symptom similarity or something else)." I contrasted A or B, versus A or B. So the "... or something else" goes, logically and linguistically, with "... other methods." So we have no disagreement on this point, okay?
:-/

[Joy Lucas]

No need to scream.

What other methods are there apart from sx similarity? You wrote that isodes can be homeopathic and this promotes isopathy as an integral part of homeopathy? This is one of the other methods? This transmogrifies homeopathy.

The example you gave of mercury is not an example of isopathy. if someone suffers from mercury poisoning and the homeopath takes a well balanced case and on sx similarity just happens to decide to prescribe potentised mercury - this is not an example of isopathy.

Isopathy is equal suffering - it is part of someone taken to cure part of someone - me lo curerò instead of contraria contrariis (but on the same lines if you read § 57). If it is taken from somewhere else then that is not equal. If you read § 56 again Hahnemann writes about taking the psorin from the itch to cure the same itch - that is isopathy.

Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

[Shannon Nelson]

I don't see any point in continuing this, Joy.
Best wishes,
Shannon

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Yes and not only with vaccines.
It seems as if the actual phenomenon (infection, toxicity vaccine effect) is an obstacle to cure.
When the remedy is very clear and outstanding I still give it a go without isotherapic remedy first; in about half of those cases the results are not convincing and I go through the isotherapic methodology, then retake the case.....not surprisingly the "first" remedy often is not indicated any more as many of the symptoms were those of the "toxin" and not those of the patient.
But because isotherapic treatment is time consuming, I still do not "routinely" start with it.
Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
My blog www.drjoesnaturalmedicine.blogspot.com is still active.

[Theresa Partington]

You are probably right - in my translation it does not say 'very same morbific potency' but 'same disease agent'. I was reading 'same morbific potency' as referring to the dilution (lack of) i.e. crude substance therefore he was not specifically considering use of disease agent in potency.
Still interesting on views on cowpox vaccination....
Theresa
Original quote from Soroush
'But even granting this could be done, yet, after all, seeing that the virus
is given to the patient highly potentized, and consequently, in an altered
condition, the cure is effected only by opposing a simillimum to a
simillimum.

To attempt to cure by means of the very same morbific potency (per Idem)'
contradicts all normal human understanding and hence all experience. Those
who first brought Isopathy to notice, probably thought of the benefit which
mankind received from cowpox vaccination by which the vaccinated individualI think the fact that he says "nothing can result from this but
Joy wrote

trouble and aggravation of the disease' does not = an open door at
all

Joy