Hi Chris,
I have read elsewhere that top layer first is the safe way to treat complex cases. I have also read that failure to remove the deeper more diseased layer can lead to failure of the remedy (Herscu Stramonium). So I was looking for classical sources.
In aphorism 195 SH is writing about removing the acute layer first. Of course.
Is he saying that the "chronic local disease" is above the deeper venereal disease. And that it is psoric? You would not expect to find the psoric layer below the deeper venereal disease even if it was the earlier layer? Or as in the case below, subacutes that appear more like the venereal disease than psoric.
In SH's Chronic Disease, p. 164, he described the mixed venereal disease on top of the pre-existing psoric disease layer. For some reason probably unrelated to his treatment, a syphilitic miasm px did not come back, but I don't see the psoric aspect of this case. He may come back. This is why I was asking this question. I don't know how I find my way to such cases. I'm not prepared for them.
p. 165 the acute can not be classed as definitely psoric or as definitely syphilitic. I think though that these acutes are clearly syphilitic. Moods become violent, self-isolating. Ulcer is painless, sunken though not a raised crater. Headache in the meninges (I think).
DETAILS
I dealt with a migraine headache associated with spring pollen and came up with Kali-bic which stabilized his moods and stopped the headaches. The px had obvious birth defects of the upper pallet (syphilitic), syphilis infection the year before, and years of multiple personality disorder from puberty. So the base was clearly syphilitic. The px was HIV positive and just starting meds so I thought maybe I could help.
His case is made of layers of syphilitic influence (although he also was treated allopathically for gonorrhea).
Every year he had terrible ulcers on his skin which the Dr. said was staph infection and treated with drugs. I was preparing to be ready to treat that outbreak. His disease history was so intense, it was hard for me to think of treating him for everything. So as SH says, treat each acute outbreak of the chronic syphilis (or aids) one at a time.
Best,
Ellen
Removing psoric layer then venereal disease layer
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
-
Chris_Gillen
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Removing psoric layer then venereal disease layer
[Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:54 am :]
Ellen wrote:
Hi Chris,
I have read elsewhere that top layer first is the safe way to treat complex
cases. I have also read that failure to remove the deeper more diseased
layer can lead to failure of the remedy (Herscu Stramonium). So I was
looking for classical sources.
In aphorism 195 SH is writing about removing the acute layer first. Of
course.
Is he saying that the "chronic local disease" is above the deeper venereal
disease. And that it is psoric? You would not expect to find the psoric
layer below the deeper venereal disease even if it was the earlier layer?
Or as in the case below, subacutes that appear more like the venereal
disease than psoric.
-----------------------------------------------------------
***Hello Ellen,
First of all, in these Aphorisms Hahnemann differentiates between a simple
"local" disease that is unencumbered by psora, and an externalized "chronic
local disease" which is the result of fully developed internal psora.
An example of a simple "local" disease is where you are healthy overall and
receive a burn or sting or cut to the skin with inflammation and which will
heal quite readily in time under the action of the Lifeforce, even without
remedies.
However, if your general health is already compromised by psora, e.g. you
are diabetic and receive an external injury to the sole of the foot it will
oftentimes not heal quite as easily.
Further examples of "chronic local disease" is where psora has already
infected the entire internal organism and subsequently manifests external
symptoms on the skin such as ulcers -venous/arterial/diabetic etc, eczema,
psoriasis, erysipelas, herpetic eruptions etc. Not every ulcer is
"syphilitic" and psora should not be considered a lightweight miasm compared
to the venereal miasms (as it is in some modern textbooks!).
In Hahnemann's experience, primary Syphilitic "localized" chancres and even
secondary buboes where quite easy to cure with simple anti-miasmatic
syphilitic remedies - *IF* psora was not complicating the picture by
producing complex pathological states, e.g. cardiac symptoms, rheumatic
complaints, tubercular disease alongside the new or suppressed venereal
infections. He considered the "common or local" gonorrhoeas (ie. those
affecting only the urinary organs) and sycosis easy to cure too *IF*
uncomplicated by active psora. So his clinical solution to treating complex
mixed-miasmatic states was to lay the psoric aspect of the disease to rest
first (i.e. put psora into latency) before selecting an appropriate
anti-syphilitic or anti-sycotic remedy. Very often he would use Sulphur at
the beginning of a complex case to achieve this effect - based on the
prevalent symptoms. Subsequently, the management of the complex case
consisted of alternately treating the psoric and syphilitic and sycotic
aspects of the case *as they appeared or reappeared symptomatically*. After
the venereal disease was cured, the remaining aspects of the chronic psoric
disease could be treated with antipsoric medicines in the usual manner.
Sorry, the pages in my book don't correspond with your references below and
I don't know the cases to which you are referring.
Regards,
Chris Gillen
-------------------------------------------------------------
[Ellen]
In SH's Chronic Disease, p. 164, he described the mixed venereal disease on
top of the pre-existing psoric disease layer. For some reason probably
unrelated to his treatment, a syphilitic miasm px did not come back, but I
don't see the psoric aspect of this case. He may come back. This is why I
was asking this question. I don't know how I find my way to such cases.
I'm not prepared for them.
p. 165 the acute can not be classed as definitely psoric or as definitely
syphilitic. I think though that these acutes are clearly syphilitic. Moods
become violent, self-isolating. Ulcer is painless, sunken though not a
raised crater. Headache in the meninges (I think).
DETAILS
I dealt with a migraine headache associated with spring pollen and came up
with Kali-bic which stabilized his moods and stopped the headaches. The px
had obvious birth defects of the upper pallet (syphilitic), syphilis
infection the year before, and years of multiple personality disorder from
puberty. So the base was clearly syphilitic. The px was HIV positive and
just starting meds so I thought maybe I could help.
His case is made of layers of syphilitic influence (although he also was
treated allopathically for gonorrhea).
Every year he had terrible ulcers on his skin which the Dr. said was staph
infection and treated with drugs. I was preparing to be ready to treat that
outbreak. His disease history was so intense, it was hard for me to think
of treating him for everything. So as SH says, treat each acute outbreak of
the chronic syphilis (or aids) one at a time.
Best,
Ellen
Ellen wrote:
Hi Chris,
I have read elsewhere that top layer first is the safe way to treat complex
cases. I have also read that failure to remove the deeper more diseased
layer can lead to failure of the remedy (Herscu Stramonium). So I was
looking for classical sources.
In aphorism 195 SH is writing about removing the acute layer first. Of
course.
Is he saying that the "chronic local disease" is above the deeper venereal
disease. And that it is psoric? You would not expect to find the psoric
layer below the deeper venereal disease even if it was the earlier layer?
Or as in the case below, subacutes that appear more like the venereal
disease than psoric.
-----------------------------------------------------------
***Hello Ellen,
First of all, in these Aphorisms Hahnemann differentiates between a simple
"local" disease that is unencumbered by psora, and an externalized "chronic
local disease" which is the result of fully developed internal psora.
An example of a simple "local" disease is where you are healthy overall and
receive a burn or sting or cut to the skin with inflammation and which will
heal quite readily in time under the action of the Lifeforce, even without
remedies.
However, if your general health is already compromised by psora, e.g. you
are diabetic and receive an external injury to the sole of the foot it will
oftentimes not heal quite as easily.
Further examples of "chronic local disease" is where psora has already
infected the entire internal organism and subsequently manifests external
symptoms on the skin such as ulcers -venous/arterial/diabetic etc, eczema,
psoriasis, erysipelas, herpetic eruptions etc. Not every ulcer is
"syphilitic" and psora should not be considered a lightweight miasm compared
to the venereal miasms (as it is in some modern textbooks!).
In Hahnemann's experience, primary Syphilitic "localized" chancres and even
secondary buboes where quite easy to cure with simple anti-miasmatic
syphilitic remedies - *IF* psora was not complicating the picture by
producing complex pathological states, e.g. cardiac symptoms, rheumatic
complaints, tubercular disease alongside the new or suppressed venereal
infections. He considered the "common or local" gonorrhoeas (ie. those
affecting only the urinary organs) and sycosis easy to cure too *IF*
uncomplicated by active psora. So his clinical solution to treating complex
mixed-miasmatic states was to lay the psoric aspect of the disease to rest
first (i.e. put psora into latency) before selecting an appropriate
anti-syphilitic or anti-sycotic remedy. Very often he would use Sulphur at
the beginning of a complex case to achieve this effect - based on the
prevalent symptoms. Subsequently, the management of the complex case
consisted of alternately treating the psoric and syphilitic and sycotic
aspects of the case *as they appeared or reappeared symptomatically*. After
the venereal disease was cured, the remaining aspects of the chronic psoric
disease could be treated with antipsoric medicines in the usual manner.
Sorry, the pages in my book don't correspond with your references below and
I don't know the cases to which you are referring.
Regards,
Chris Gillen
-------------------------------------------------------------
[Ellen]
In SH's Chronic Disease, p. 164, he described the mixed venereal disease on
top of the pre-existing psoric disease layer. For some reason probably
unrelated to his treatment, a syphilitic miasm px did not come back, but I
don't see the psoric aspect of this case. He may come back. This is why I
was asking this question. I don't know how I find my way to such cases.
I'm not prepared for them.
p. 165 the acute can not be classed as definitely psoric or as definitely
syphilitic. I think though that these acutes are clearly syphilitic. Moods
become violent, self-isolating. Ulcer is painless, sunken though not a
raised crater. Headache in the meninges (I think).
DETAILS
I dealt with a migraine headache associated with spring pollen and came up
with Kali-bic which stabilized his moods and stopped the headaches. The px
had obvious birth defects of the upper pallet (syphilitic), syphilis
infection the year before, and years of multiple personality disorder from
puberty. So the base was clearly syphilitic. The px was HIV positive and
just starting meds so I thought maybe I could help.
His case is made of layers of syphilitic influence (although he also was
treated allopathically for gonorrhea).
Every year he had terrible ulcers on his skin which the Dr. said was staph
infection and treated with drugs. I was preparing to be ready to treat that
outbreak. His disease history was so intense, it was hard for me to think
of treating him for everything. So as SH says, treat each acute outbreak of
the chronic syphilis (or aids) one at a time.
Best,
Ellen
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: Removing psoric layer then venereal disease layer
Dear Chris,
Thank-you for your as usual full reply.
I was naively referring to my own case. The reason why I am worrying about these questions.
Too bad page numbers of different editions are not standardized for a book as classical as the Chronic Diseases.
I believe you are saying that SH treated the top layer of a complex case, perhaps differentiating between the two possible VD layers and the psoric layer, but in any case treating whatever was on top.
Yes I definitely do have the impression that the syphilitic layer is a deeper disease layer than the psoric layer. I am reading books like Banajea's Miasmatic Prescribing. The symptoms of the syphilitic layer are certainly more serious. Sycotic and Tub could be debated as to how deep they are. Certainly there and most everywhere I look, the syphilitic layer is much deeper and more serious than the psoric layer. That of course is confusing because disease layers could be any miasm. There is no deeper miasm. And there is no set order of the layers.
At the same time, people have not very serious symptoms that are syphilic, I can not think of an example now, but I've read them.
What was SH's reasoning for no hierarchy among miasms. I thought that he implied that if you were one of the rare persons with no psoric disease, healing of the VD miasms was much easier. Psroa sounds to me like glue that makes the other miasms stick and become a complicated mess.
Best,
Ellen
Thank-you for your as usual full reply.
I was naively referring to my own case. The reason why I am worrying about these questions.
Too bad page numbers of different editions are not standardized for a book as classical as the Chronic Diseases.
I believe you are saying that SH treated the top layer of a complex case, perhaps differentiating between the two possible VD layers and the psoric layer, but in any case treating whatever was on top.
Yes I definitely do have the impression that the syphilitic layer is a deeper disease layer than the psoric layer. I am reading books like Banajea's Miasmatic Prescribing. The symptoms of the syphilitic layer are certainly more serious. Sycotic and Tub could be debated as to how deep they are. Certainly there and most everywhere I look, the syphilitic layer is much deeper and more serious than the psoric layer. That of course is confusing because disease layers could be any miasm. There is no deeper miasm. And there is no set order of the layers.
At the same time, people have not very serious symptoms that are syphilic, I can not think of an example now, but I've read them.
What was SH's reasoning for no hierarchy among miasms. I thought that he implied that if you were one of the rare persons with no psoric disease, healing of the VD miasms was much easier. Psroa sounds to me like glue that makes the other miasms stick and become a complicated mess.
Best,
Ellen