Soy

[Shannon Nelson]

But it has not been used for centuries in the *quantities*, nor in some
of the forms, that many are now using it. I do think those are
important differences.

Decades ago I gave up trying to "get over" my intolerance to soy (it
puts my brain to sleep and makes me feel as tho I've got cotton wool
instead of blood! not literally... But even tiny amounts quickly make
me feel lousy.). I tried long avoidance, various enzymes, and misc
other, and then just accepted that I can't tolerate soy. I can quickly
tell when a processed food has been made with soy oil, because even
that little bit makes me feel crummy.

But then, just a year or so ago, I realized / found that I *do* handle
fermented and/or sprouted soy just fine. E.g. miso, tempeh, sprouted
soy beans--no problem, and what a delight! Still can't handle any
other forms tho, and I'm very leery about the GMO issue.

Shannon

[Kathy]

I am not a mercola fan. I find his site to be the national enquirer of holistic health, it actually makes me laugh. I want to see clinical trials and data to back up these statements, I like statistics (smile). I don’t think soy is a Health replacement but it is not all black and white either. Moderation is the key. I have read everything I could find since my children used soy formula and honestly for every bad there are 3 good. I also believe that any ill effects can be reversed with good nutrition and herbs and now homeopathy. To me and my teachings it all has to do with constitutional aspects and energy. Every person is different so some things have a negative effect on them and some things don’t. Kathy
Kathleen Ramsey M.C.S. D.D.

Naturopath, Flower Essence Practitioner, Master Herbalist
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tamarque@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:20 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Minutus] Soy
soy may have some soil benefits, but that doesn't translate into a human

health benefit. i am sure you know this.
the reading i have done indicates that fermented soy is/may be beneficial,

but not the unfermented bean.
here is a list of articles from mercola that you might read
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm
there are several articles that highlight the soy-thryroid problem. some of the articles

reference studies in recognized nutritional and medical journals.
tanya

[Tanya Marquette]

you don't have to like mercola, but he does cite medical articles
and includes bibliographies of numerous studies that you can read.
that is one of the values of his site. and that is why i sent the index of
articles he has compiled.
i also have grave doubts about much of the research done, in this country
in particular, since it is funded by the very people who are promoting its use--
the corporate farmers and food industry that makes oodles from it. this is not
news, especially on minuts where this bogus research process has been
discussed before.
however, if you want to believe in the health benefits of soy, then nothing
presented will satisfy you.
tanya

[Sheri Nakken]

At 03:35 PM 7/29/2008, you wrote:
I hear you about mercola's site - it had gotten terrible......have to
sort the wheat from the chaff

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

Sheri

Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm & http://www.wellwihtin1.com/vaccine.htm
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases

[Kathy]

It is not that I don’t agree, I just feel not all the proof is in. The soy protein shake I use has 8mg of soy isolates in it much less than the amount used in studies. As far as the kids go we just have to keep our fingers crossed and do the best that we can with the knowledge we have. I don’t think that 25% of all U.S. babies are going to have small organs and breasts sooner than supposed to. I have mercury fillings and have all my shots and so far so good for me (smile). Tomorrow it will be something else. I heard a study the other day that we don’t need to drink 8 glasses of water either. My kids dentist also told me that fluoride was good for them( frown). Kathy
Kathleen Ramsey M.C.S. D.D.

Naturopath, Flower Essence Practitioner, Master Herbalist
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tamarque@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 12:03 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [Minutus] Soy
you don't have to like mercola, but he does cite medical articles

and includes bibliographies of numerous studies that you can read.

that is one of the values of his site. and that is why i sent the index of

articles he has compiled.
i also have grave doubts about much of the research done, in this country

in particular, since it is funded by the very people who are promoting its use--

the corporate farmers and food industry that makes oodles from it. this is not

news, especially on minuts where this bogus research process has been

discussed before.
however, if you want to believe in the health benefits of soy, then nothing

presented will satisfy you.
tanya

[Tanya Marquette]

well, yes, it can be very complicated living in today's world. everything
natural and common to local survival has been changed. everything is
manufactured and who knows what all else.
and i have been getting info on not drinking water for several years. one
hands on healer told me over 10 yrs ago that i should not drink water. my
morphological condition is one that absorbs and holds water and that i
should not take in any excess. so there is a piece of individuation on this
issue.
but i do think that if a person has a developed politic that they can apply
to information coming in, then reasonably good choices can be made. and
this is particularly true for health issues. whenever i see major corporate
involvement in pushing an idea, especially with the fda or usda behind it,
i am always suspect. then if you look at the historical wisdom and practice,
then that adds a layer of important information. so with soy, i look at the
traditional practice in asia and see very little use of soy (tofu) but more
use for the fermented forms of it. and despite the dislike on this list for
mercola, i think he has done very well in putting out a great deal of info
on this matter. one can always dig up the original research that he
references and read it for yourself.
and you are correct, that people survive with bad food, etc for quite some
time before adverse effects surface. and then again, we are a very complicated
species and have a broad range of responses. and lastly, i would mention
the advent of the understanding of epigenetics. so where you might do well
in life, a genetic contamination might occur that does get passed on to the
next generation.
tanya

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Elizabeth,
Well, there have ben numerous provings of other foodstuffs - and they
all brought out symptoms.

So I doubt that a proving would be very enlightening.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Elizabeth Brandegee]

Thanks for the replies. I agree Kathy - and I do real research as
well. Mercola was a quick & comprehensive link to share, and
although I don't totally embrace all that goes on there, he does have
a lot of good information Soy was already on my radar for the
reasons you state here, it's overuse and allergic & hormonal
elements.

Yes other parts of the world actually eat very little tofu, mainly
fermented forms of soy. And it is just in everything if you look at
least here in the US. That is always suspect to me.

I think it would be a worthy proving overall, as are other substances
which are over-used, over-infiltrated into the food/water/air and
many are essentially 'proving'.
Best wishes,
Liz
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
many
aspects.
enough
Homeopath.)

[Irene de Villiers]

Depends how you define "opinion".
What I wrote is proven in research - Th-2 skewing of the immune
system is no joke - it's why we see so much chronic disease these
days - and soy is one cause (another being vaccinations).
If you say so
I prefer to only consider research that I have read in enough derail
to be able to judge for myself what it is worth. That judgement in
this case also is based on my graduate school study of
immunopharmacology, and my medical research in that field - so it is
a well known field to me, not something hard to interpret as to
validity of research, in my case.
Yes - vaccines are also guilty and also proven in research to skew to
Th-2, as does soy.
The skewing to Th-2 (and associated damage to thymus gland) is what
predisposes Th-2 skewed chronic diseases:-)
Th-2 diseases include a very long list, examples being asthma/
dermatitis/allergies, arthritis, cancer, cushings, diabetes.
Yes, but that does not make the soybeans beneficial to humans - which
is why I called them leftovers. sold to try and make the soil
replenishment process more profitable - but to the detriment of
people's health.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Elizabeth Brandegee]

Thank you Irene, that's part of the point behind my inquiry.
Gee I didn't think there would be such a debate, just yes there is a
proving, or no - and let's look at why that could be a good idea!

To the reply simplifying this to 'foodstuffs' - plants constitute how
much of our materia medica??? This one is worth looking at for all
reasons stated.
And to the reply about GM soy - yes that should be a sister proving

Have a great day,
Liz
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
derail
is
things
to
what
which
Homeopath.)