confounding rubric! :-)

[Shannon Nelson]

Can anyone explain the rubric, "Confounding objects and ideas"?
Mind; CONFOUNDING; OBJECTS and ideas (12) : bufo, calc., cann-s.,
colch., cypra-e., hyos., lac-lup., musca-d., nux-v., phos., plat.,
Sulph.

Shannon

[Tanya Marquette]

confusing, mixing up.

i would think it indicates a person who confuses information

tanya

[Lynn Cremona]

This from
A Modern Guide and index to the Mental Rubrics of Kent's Repertory , by David Sault
an excellent book to clarify meanings as well as related rubrics.

Confounding, objects and ideas
To mingle so that different elements cannot be distinguished ; to confuse
related rubrics:
Confusion of mind
disconcerted
mistakes

From Kent's Comparative Repertory of the Homoeopathic Materia Medica, by Dockx and Kokelenberg
Those people are living out of reality. Their confusion has something to do wishful thinking.

also
Key to The Rubrics of Mind, by Dr M L Agrawal
which I don't find a clear as the above mentioned books

Lynn
------------------------------------------

At 12:32 PM 7/28/2008, you wrote:
Imagine Peace

[Afagh Barri]

Dear Shannon,
Explanation of the rubric by Dr.Master:
Confounding objects and ideas

Meaning: To become confused; to fail to distinguish.

Cross Reference: Chaotic

Confusion of mind, Disconcerted

Mistakes, makes
Explanation: The person who makes mistakes in supposing objects or a person.

Disease Condition: Schizophrenia

Organic brain syndrome

Important Drugs: Calc., Colch., Hyos., Phos.,Plat., Sulph.
Regards,

Afagh

[Leilanae]

Here's one more:
Perceiving Rubrics of the Mind -Master

Meaning: To become confused; to fail to distinguish
Cross reference: same as above
Explanation: The person who makes mistakes in supposing objects or a person.
Disease condition: Schizophrenia, organic brain syndrome
Important drugs: Calc, Colch, Hyos, Phos, Plat, Sulph.

Leilanae

[Shannon Nelson]

Thanks Leilanae, Tanya, Afagh and Lynn (hope I didn't miss anyone!).
So I get that "confounding" means "confusing"--I knew that! But
"confusing objects and ideas"? That's pretty intense. That sounds
like a *whole* different dimension from plain ol' confusion.

The note that comes closest to seeming to explain it is e.g., as Lynn
quotes Dockx & Koklenberg, "Those people are living out of reality;"
and

e.g. Afagh and Leilanae quote Master mentioning the associated "disease
condition" as Schizophrenia, organic brain syndrome.

Which makes e.g. Sault's description (which mentions only "confusion'
etc.--which sounds pretty garden-variety) seem very perplexingly
understated...

Those two remarks suggest that the intention is something far more than
simple confusion; and more in line with what the rubric *sounds* like:
"confounding objects and ideas"--that doesn't mean "getting mixed
about", or using the wrong words or anything! What it seems to me to
*mean* would be that one gets confused about whether something is a
"thing" or an "idea", a very intense confusion as to what's real, and
what the *nature* of things / reality is. I'm saying this mostly on
basis of what the rubric *says*--or anyway, what it would mean if being
spoken in plain English. And, altho most of the "explanations"
seem to really beat around the bush, state the obvious and avoid the
obviously missing part, those two remarks ("...living out of reality"
and "schizophrenia") I guess are as close to an explanation as I'm
going to come, unless I someday find the explanation in the materia
medica...

Thanks all--intriguing!
Shannon

[p_aarti2000]

hellow sir,
here with sendg you the meaning of the rubric confounding////

To cause to become confused or perplexed. See Synonyms at puzzle.
To fail to distinguish; mix up: confound fiction and fact.
To make (something bad) worse: Do not confound the problem by losing your temper.
To cause to be ashamed; abash:
to perplex or amaze; bewilder; confuse.
to throw into confusion or disorder.
to throw into increased confusion or disorder.
to treat or regard erroneously as identical; mix or associate by mistake:
to mingle so that the elements cannot be distinguished or separated.
--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:

[Shannon Nelson]

Hello,
This may have already gotten more discussion than it's worth
but--
recall that the rubric is *not* just "confounding" (in which case each
of the below could apply). Rather, it is confounding *objects with
ideas*, in other words, confounding *one thing with another*.

With that in mind
This one does not apply to the rubric.
This could apply, but in this context one is confounding *between* two
things, e.g. confusing whether something is fiction *or* fact. You
don't "confound fiction" and "confound fact"--you confound them with
*each other*.

Similarly, when confounding objects and ideas, one is not confused
about an object, or confused about an idea--one is confused about
whether something *is* an object or an idea--imaginary or real, I
guess.
None of this above group applies to the rubric: we do not have objects
which are puzzled or ashamed etc...
Yes, this is the sense in which the rubric apparently uses the word:
such that one cannot separate what is an object (real) from what is an
idea (in the mind). I think it's saying the same thing as the first
definition you cite? To mix them together; to be unable to tell them
apart.

Thank you!
Shannon

[Tanya Marquette]

well then, doesn't that suggest some specific quality of the confounding?

it could mean both of them separately--not with each other.
for example confusing a knife with a fork, or confusing
directions or what location one is at.

tanya

[Shannon Nelson]

I guess what's acting as my "compass" on this one is my understanding
of the term "confound", when used in that type of sentence
structure--"confounding this and that."

You can confound a cat by hiding its mouse. -- That's one meaning
of the word, "confuse," etc.

If you were unfamiliar with the nature of houses and the nature of
locomotion, I suppose you could confound a door and a window--some
people like going in and out thru windows, and certainly we open doors
for light and air, so...

But could you confound a window? What would that *mean*?
Shannon