I rememeber reading in an old Adelle Davis book about a study that was
done on two lots of penned cats.
One pen was fed only raw cows milk while the other was fed only
pasteurised an homogenised milk.
The cats in the raw pen had glossy coats and thrived while the processed
pen became sickly and died.
Aften the cats were removed, the ground in the raw pen went on to grow
lush weeds, the processed pen remained barren.
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Information - Education - Treatment)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Teresa Kramer wrote:
Cat Food (OT)
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
well milk straight from the cow is not what is sold in stores.
the original is raw, unpasteurized, has all the enzymes and phytonutrients
of the real thing. for humans raw, unpasteuried milk is much healthier
for humans.
tanya
the original is raw, unpasteurized, has all the enzymes and phytonutrients
of the real thing. for humans raw, unpasteuried milk is much healthier
for humans.
tanya
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
what is your take on the wellness brand?
i actually called them today due to concern about the fish they used. they
state on their website that their chicken and turkey is hormone free and of
human grade. they told me that they follow usda standards for human
grade food. i had to politely note that did not give me comfort considering
the history of these federal agencies and their support of the large farm
corporations and their opposition to organic products.
they did claim to test their fish for mercury and other chemicals. however,
i found nothing on their site to list what chemicals they tested for. they did
tell me that 'some' of their fish is farm raised and the rest is atlantic caught.
again not fact to create great comfort. so i would stay away from their
fish products.
tanya
i actually called them today due to concern about the fish they used. they
state on their website that their chicken and turkey is hormone free and of
human grade. they told me that they follow usda standards for human
grade food. i had to politely note that did not give me comfort considering
the history of these federal agencies and their support of the large farm
corporations and their opposition to organic products.
they did claim to test their fish for mercury and other chemicals. however,
i found nothing on their site to list what chemicals they tested for. they did
tell me that 'some' of their fish is farm raised and the rest is atlantic caught.
again not fact to create great comfort. so i would stay away from their
fish products.
tanya
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
No good due to feline toxins in the food.
They have dozens of versions of food - ALL of them with toxins plus
other issues like fruit, veg, seed oil etc.
Yucca for example is a category one feline toxin listed with the
National Animal poison control center in Atlanta Georgia, whre teh
incidence of deaths from it are recorded.
A list of seriously toxic plants for cats is a nominal price there in
a neat little booklet, and would cost the manufacturer something like
fifteen measly dollars in long-term capital expense to find out
whether they are feeding serious toxins on that list. Do they spend
that much? Nooooo.
I have to say - it bothers me a LOT that a manufacturer pretending to
care about wellness, can't be bothered to read and heed the nutrition
research as to what cats need nor the research on what's toxic to cats.
Isn't it their JOB as professional food makers to do this?
If I was the FDA I'd be accusing them of fraud for claiming healthy
ingredients for cats when it is so easy to find out otherwise.
(Them and every other manufacturer CLAIMING superior quality
nutrition for cats, and including yucca, alfalfa, garlic, rosemary
extract, vegetables, fruit, seed oils, cellulose, and so on....)
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
They have dozens of versions of food - ALL of them with toxins plus
other issues like fruit, veg, seed oil etc.
Yucca for example is a category one feline toxin listed with the
National Animal poison control center in Atlanta Georgia, whre teh
incidence of deaths from it are recorded.
A list of seriously toxic plants for cats is a nominal price there in
a neat little booklet, and would cost the manufacturer something like
fifteen measly dollars in long-term capital expense to find out
whether they are feeding serious toxins on that list. Do they spend
that much? Nooooo.
I have to say - it bothers me a LOT that a manufacturer pretending to
care about wellness, can't be bothered to read and heed the nutrition
research as to what cats need nor the research on what's toxic to cats.
Isn't it their JOB as professional food makers to do this?
If I was the FDA I'd be accusing them of fraud for claiming healthy
ingredients for cats when it is so easy to find out otherwise.
(Them and every other manufacturer CLAIMING superior quality
nutrition for cats, and including yucca, alfalfa, garlic, rosemary
extract, vegetables, fruit, seed oils, cellulose, and so on....)
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
Actually it is the opposite - it's the canned foods that have to be
eliminated.
There are several reasons for this, the most relevant of which you
did not touch on, but I'll respond to your concerns first:
Actually the opposite is the case.
The kibble is chewed into smaller bits, exercising the jaws - very
important - while not getting food stuck to the teeth to feed
bacteria and cause gum disease. Cats who eat commercial canned cat
food ALL have gum disease - and it then leads to stomatitis and other
horrors.
(Apart from the fact that no canned food I can find is acceptable as
to ingredients)
Not as far as I know. I have been recommending ProPac kitten dry food
(no other versions of ProPac) but I am not connected to them in any
way. I just work hard to find the best for my and my clients' cats,
and share what I know quite freely though it was a LOT of work and
cost to come by the information.
My choice of the food as the best I can find is based only on feline
nutrition research findings and my relentless search for an
acceptable commercial food to use for people like me and clients who
do not make catfood at home. If IO found a better one tomororw I'd be
recommending it tomorrow.
Which is why I do choose it:-)
This is the single best ingredient in any cat food and shows a high
percentage of high quality cat-appropriate protein.
In kibble, the food has to be extruded, and this is the most
concentrated form of protein in kibble. When for example "chicken" is
listed (instead of the version made into meal and called chicken
meal) there is less protein per volume.
Since ingredients are listed in order of volume by law - this is
relevant when assessing a food by its ingredients list for
nutritional value - and this is why those with "chicken" instead of
"chicken meal" as first item, have less actual chicken in them. And
the amount of chicken is what's relevant here.
What you do NOT want is "chicken by-products" which means "anything
left after all the chicken meat is removed".
(So intestines, feathers, beaks and suchlike parts of
chicken....which manufacturers like to consider food for cats. Or
worse still "animal by-products" which is any mixture of
slaughterhouse leftovers with no meat.)
The chicken meal is most of it, and also the fish and egg.
That is so much nonsense. You either have a wild imagination or have
been reading nonsense websites.
Goodness knows there are enough of them and they go in circles
supporting each other:-)
As I mentioned before the chicken used in ProPac is chicken meant
that has been approved for human food export.
Poison is poison. If you put it in food it poisons the food, period.
It's like saying:
We are using snake venom from cobras as a condiment on the stew, but
don't worry - the amount is very small - less than the potato and
beef in fact.
In whose dreams?
It would be a lot more healthy to eat fish daily than to eat what the
average person eats:-)
Fresh fish is the reason so many healthy people exist in fish eating
countries:-)
Also the kind approved for human food export.
As I have already mentioned in previous emails - ALL the ProPac
ingredients are human-export-approved foods
Now to the real reason to use dry food rather than canned commercial
cat food:
Cats are designed a special way: They are small solo predators. This
means they hunt their own food with no help, and have to be very
efficient. They are designed for VERY fast acelleration - and if you
know any physics you know that the heavier you are, the harder it is
to get up speed. But the better your muscles, the better you can
pounce. So there is a trade-off in which weight and muscle are the
main components and ANY extra weight is a detriment. So cats are
designed so that non-muscle body is minimal.
Cats have the perfecft design for these requirements - they are built
very muscularly, especially the back legs for pouncing - in fact more
than half the weight of the cat is from waist down - and they are
very flexible for easy change of direction so as to chase prey (also
requiring strength but low weight). To help this lean mean machine
type design, the internal organs are designed for low weight - and
need multiple small high protein meals per day. They burn upo this
protein quickly, and need more - and more - and more.
This applies to all the small cats - the wild small oes as well as
the domestic ones (that descend from wild cat Felie lybica)
In captivity, in zoos and conservation centres they were dying
(within 2 years for F nigripes which is smaller than domestic cats)
from kidney failure due to being fed only once or twice a day. Either
the food was too old if they "left it for later" or they ate all at
once and had to burn their own muscles up between meals, - either of
which destroys kidney cells.
Now that research shows the need for many small meals, the
organizations heeding that research are seeing longer lived small
cats in captivity.
How this relates to dry food:
Part of the cat's low weight design, is the LACK of any equipment to
remove toxic materials from food. this means that even raw meat is
bad for them unless it is fresh-killed (or at least surface cooked).
It also means that meat lying about will harm them if eaten later.
So if you feed canned food, it will be old and damaging by the time
the cat needs its net meal in an hour or two, and if there is no meal
in an hour or two - the cat has to destroy and use up some of its
muscle.
SO either it will have harm from food that is not fresh enough and
that it can not detoxify - OR it will onsume its own muslce and the
by-products of that are trouble for the kidneys.
Dry food is a good compromise as it is designed to stay fresh long
enough to provide frequent fresh meals, and as long as it is free-fed
24/7, it also meets the need of constant nibbling to prevent
breakdown of muscle and consequent kidney failure later.
Kidney failure IS the leading cause of death in cats - and this
nutrition issue of needing SUPERfresh high protein food OFTEN - IS why.
As a homeopath, it may help you to use this information - I hope you
will
Nature has tried to protect the small cats from nonfresh food - by
providing them with a Jacobsen's organ. This can detect the start of
putrefactive bacterial action, and if the cat has an option it will
refuse such food. They use the organ by "Flehming" near the food -
which passes the air over the Jacobsen's organ located between the
palate and the nose. the cat will appear to have pursed lips when
Flehming.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
eliminated.
There are several reasons for this, the most relevant of which you
did not touch on, but I'll respond to your concerns first:
Actually the opposite is the case.
The kibble is chewed into smaller bits, exercising the jaws - very
important - while not getting food stuck to the teeth to feed
bacteria and cause gum disease. Cats who eat commercial canned cat
food ALL have gum disease - and it then leads to stomatitis and other
horrors.
(Apart from the fact that no canned food I can find is acceptable as
to ingredients)
Not as far as I know. I have been recommending ProPac kitten dry food
(no other versions of ProPac) but I am not connected to them in any
way. I just work hard to find the best for my and my clients' cats,
and share what I know quite freely though it was a LOT of work and
cost to come by the information.
My choice of the food as the best I can find is based only on feline
nutrition research findings and my relentless search for an
acceptable commercial food to use for people like me and clients who
do not make catfood at home. If IO found a better one tomororw I'd be
recommending it tomorrow.
Which is why I do choose it:-)
This is the single best ingredient in any cat food and shows a high
percentage of high quality cat-appropriate protein.
In kibble, the food has to be extruded, and this is the most
concentrated form of protein in kibble. When for example "chicken" is
listed (instead of the version made into meal and called chicken
meal) there is less protein per volume.
Since ingredients are listed in order of volume by law - this is
relevant when assessing a food by its ingredients list for
nutritional value - and this is why those with "chicken" instead of
"chicken meal" as first item, have less actual chicken in them. And
the amount of chicken is what's relevant here.
What you do NOT want is "chicken by-products" which means "anything
left after all the chicken meat is removed".
(So intestines, feathers, beaks and suchlike parts of
chicken....which manufacturers like to consider food for cats. Or
worse still "animal by-products" which is any mixture of
slaughterhouse leftovers with no meat.)
The chicken meal is most of it, and also the fish and egg.
That is so much nonsense. You either have a wild imagination or have
been reading nonsense websites.
Goodness knows there are enough of them and they go in circles
supporting each other:-)
As I mentioned before the chicken used in ProPac is chicken meant
that has been approved for human food export.
Poison is poison. If you put it in food it poisons the food, period.
It's like saying:
We are using snake venom from cobras as a condiment on the stew, but
don't worry - the amount is very small - less than the potato and
beef in fact.
In whose dreams?
It would be a lot more healthy to eat fish daily than to eat what the
average person eats:-)
Fresh fish is the reason so many healthy people exist in fish eating
countries:-)
Also the kind approved for human food export.
As I have already mentioned in previous emails - ALL the ProPac
ingredients are human-export-approved foods
Now to the real reason to use dry food rather than canned commercial
cat food:
Cats are designed a special way: They are small solo predators. This
means they hunt their own food with no help, and have to be very
efficient. They are designed for VERY fast acelleration - and if you
know any physics you know that the heavier you are, the harder it is
to get up speed. But the better your muscles, the better you can
pounce. So there is a trade-off in which weight and muscle are the
main components and ANY extra weight is a detriment. So cats are
designed so that non-muscle body is minimal.
Cats have the perfecft design for these requirements - they are built
very muscularly, especially the back legs for pouncing - in fact more
than half the weight of the cat is from waist down - and they are
very flexible for easy change of direction so as to chase prey (also
requiring strength but low weight). To help this lean mean machine
type design, the internal organs are designed for low weight - and
need multiple small high protein meals per day. They burn upo this
protein quickly, and need more - and more - and more.
This applies to all the small cats - the wild small oes as well as
the domestic ones (that descend from wild cat Felie lybica)
In captivity, in zoos and conservation centres they were dying
(within 2 years for F nigripes which is smaller than domestic cats)
from kidney failure due to being fed only once or twice a day. Either
the food was too old if they "left it for later" or they ate all at
once and had to burn their own muscles up between meals, - either of
which destroys kidney cells.
Now that research shows the need for many small meals, the
organizations heeding that research are seeing longer lived small
cats in captivity.
How this relates to dry food:
Part of the cat's low weight design, is the LACK of any equipment to
remove toxic materials from food. this means that even raw meat is
bad for them unless it is fresh-killed (or at least surface cooked).
It also means that meat lying about will harm them if eaten later.
So if you feed canned food, it will be old and damaging by the time
the cat needs its net meal in an hour or two, and if there is no meal
in an hour or two - the cat has to destroy and use up some of its
muscle.
SO either it will have harm from food that is not fresh enough and
that it can not detoxify - OR it will onsume its own muslce and the
by-products of that are trouble for the kidneys.
Dry food is a good compromise as it is designed to stay fresh long
enough to provide frequent fresh meals, and as long as it is free-fed
24/7, it also meets the need of constant nibbling to prevent
breakdown of muscle and consequent kidney failure later.
Kidney failure IS the leading cause of death in cats - and this
nutrition issue of needing SUPERfresh high protein food OFTEN - IS why.
As a homeopath, it may help you to use this information - I hope you
will
Nature has tried to protect the small cats from nonfresh food - by
providing them with a Jacobsen's organ. This can detect the start of
putrefactive bacterial action, and if the cat has an option it will
refuse such food. They use the organ by "Flehming" near the food -
which passes the air over the Jacobsen's organ located between the
palate and the nose. the cat will appear to have pursed lips when
Flehming.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
I still have all her books - I checked the detailed indexes she
provides, and somehow missed it.
Which book was it in?
In any case - milk has NOT got the balanced nutrients cats need,
cooked, raw, milkshaked or any other way:-)
You can look up a breakdown of nutrients of various foods on the USDA
food database if you'd like to see details.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
If you check under milk "milk, producer, fluid" to get the data on
raw, you can then compare with other options like homogenized or with
a food suitable for cats like chicken.
Compare a 100g of each for food value.
Just to get you started:
Raw cow's Milk has 3.28g protein and chicken back, meat and skin, has
25.95g.
Milk has 0.05g of iron (useless) and chicken has THIRTY times as much
= 1.423
Milk has negligible monounsaturated fatty acids chicken has 8.3g
Likewise for polyunsaturaated ones.
But the biggest issue is the amino acid ratios that are all wrong for
cats in milk.
Even if the experiment you mention was in some book somewhere
(seeing is believing on that one) - it would have been intended to
show raw milk versus not so raw - it was not there to suggest milk is
good food for adult cats.
It is not; BUT - cats will eat what they get rather than starve....
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
provides, and somehow missed it.
Which book was it in?
In any case - milk has NOT got the balanced nutrients cats need,
cooked, raw, milkshaked or any other way:-)
You can look up a breakdown of nutrients of various foods on the USDA
food database if you'd like to see details.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
If you check under milk "milk, producer, fluid" to get the data on
raw, you can then compare with other options like homogenized or with
a food suitable for cats like chicken.
Compare a 100g of each for food value.
Just to get you started:
Raw cow's Milk has 3.28g protein and chicken back, meat and skin, has
25.95g.
Milk has 0.05g of iron (useless) and chicken has THIRTY times as much
= 1.423
Milk has negligible monounsaturated fatty acids chicken has 8.3g
Likewise for polyunsaturaated ones.
But the biggest issue is the amino acid ratios that are all wrong for
cats in milk.
Even if the experiment you mention was in some book somewhere
(seeing is believing on that one) - it would have been intended to
show raw milk versus not so raw - it was not there to suggest milk is
good food for adult cats.
It is not; BUT - cats will eat what they get rather than starve....
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Fran Sheffield
- Posts: 676
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
Hi Irene,
I no longer have my Adelle Davis books but a quick google search brought
up the following info which is probably what she was referring to.
http://www.karlloren.com/diet/milk/p4.htm
If you wish to nitpick arguments all the time you will have to do it
with somebody else - I have no interest.
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Information - Education - Treatment)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Irene de Villiers wrote:
I no longer have my Adelle Davis books but a quick google search brought
up the following info which is probably what she was referring to.
http://www.karlloren.com/diet/milk/p4.htm
If you wish to nitpick arguments all the time you will have to do it
with somebody else - I have no interest.
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Information - Education - Treatment)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Irene de Villiers wrote:
-
Marilyn Wagner
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
If you follow this link, you will be able to search Ann Martin's book. Yep there's some icky stuff in commercially prepared pet foods!:((
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
You have strange dreams girl!
Some people will believe anything of course, even weird urban legends
but it would be so much more helpful *not* to promote nonsense,
however obvious:-)
Just for the record, the legal definition in USA for cat food
ingredients is set by AAFCO and for "chicken meal" is;
QUOTE:
Chicken Meal: chicken which has been ground or otherwise reduced in
particle size.
UNQUOTE.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Some people will believe anything of course, even weird urban legends
but it would be so much more helpful *not* to promote nonsense,
however obvious:-)
Just for the record, the legal definition in USA for cat food
ingredients is set by AAFCO and for "chicken meal" is;
QUOTE:
Chicken Meal: chicken which has been ground or otherwise reduced in
particle size.
UNQUOTE.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Cat Food (OT)
This is the old debunked Pottenger experiment of about a century ago
and Adelle Davis said nothing about it in or out of any book.
All she said - per YOUR website reference was:
"According to Adelle Davis: "There are many reasons why heated milk
is inferior to unheated milk."
.....your website reference suggests interest?
Fortunately for all the cats who benefit, many people understand that
explaining the benefits of chicken over milk as cat food,
is not "nit picking".
Trying to suggest Adelle Davis supported such nonsense as the
Pottenger study.....
that's the part I'll just debunk and leave alone.
Namate,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
and Adelle Davis said nothing about it in or out of any book.
All she said - per YOUR website reference was:
"According to Adelle Davis: "There are many reasons why heated milk
is inferior to unheated milk."
.....your website reference suggests interest?
Fortunately for all the cats who benefit, many people understand that
explaining the benefits of chicken over milk as cat food,
is not "nit picking".
Trying to suggest Adelle Davis supported such nonsense as the
Pottenger study.....
that's the part I'll just debunk and leave alone.
Namate,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."