Horrible music

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Caro,
. Gonorrhoea and

No, they are both bacteria.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Caro]

Christ! You're right! Heheeeee! Sorry about that.

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Caro!
Wow, how neat that you've "played" with this! I want to know aaallll
of it... ) I'm sending part of my reply now, and part
separately...

Below:
Makes total sense! And this was definitely untaught, sigh.
Yes, that's what I've assumed too.
That the nature of the music mirrors something in the "inner space".
(Disturbing to think of, in this case! But I can see that it's there.)
I call it "disembowling music", or in some cases "small animals
being stomped on."
Yep, makes sense. Similar to listening to sad music when one feels
sad... If only it were *curative*, i.e. had an *end*!!
Hm, I think he just calls it "rock", or "alternative rock". I think
the only names he'd have for genre would come from iTunes, which is
probably not highly technical. iTunes calls them "Rock," "Hard Rock,"
and "Metal", depending on group and/or song. Do you know the bands
Disturbed, Slipknot and Five Finger Death Punch? (Yeah, the music is
as cheery as the names!) Those are three of his current favorites, if
that tells you anything. (He is branching out a bit more at the
moment, but has not yet eschewed those dear little friends. :-X )

Say more!!
Wowie!!! Can you give me some examples?
What are the choices of genre names? Maybe I can find out which
applies more to him.
Merci!

Shannon

[Shannon Nelson]

Thanks Luise and Teresa--
You both make good points, about tastes differing and all, and the way
"the older generation" so commonly abhors some of the tastes etc. of
the "younger generation." (Make me feel old, will ya? )

But still--Luise, the fact that behaviors and tastes and situations and
etc. are common enough, does not mean they have nothing to do with
miasmatic influence. To me it seems there would *definitely* be
miasmatic influence in a person's music preferences. Not that it would
be definite in every case (maybe the preference is more thru
association etc.), but I would think still there as a very marked
tendency. In my son's case, his taste / preferences in music changed
VERY dramatically, over a short period of time, in absence of any
apparent reason--and most significantly, at a time when lots of other
things were changing too, thanks to good ol' puberty.

Leaving aside miasms for the moment, it seems clear to me that the
musical preferences would mirror a lot in the internal landscape. As
Teresa remarked on, there's this intensity--and desire for
intensity--that (I think) accompanies the desire for this loud,
intense, and what I would call extraordinarily intrusive type of music.
Not to mention that the *words* of some of them are... well, let's
just say "really disturbing" to someone like me. (Killing myself;
killing you; laced with profanity; oooh the world sucks and so do I and
PS you do too so... well, never mind. Etc.)

Bes,
Shannon

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Shannon,

Well, it would take a long and probably not very fruitful discussion
to find out how far we can agree and where we would have to agree to
disagree:-)

So just one (real) question:
How would you link that, specifically the suddenness, to miasm?

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[Shannon Nelson]

I was not thinking of the suddenness in terms of miasm, rather in terms
of developmental change, I guess. In terms of his *growth*, tubercular
makes sense (e.g. re the fact that Tub. is helping somewhat) and that's
what the rubrics re "fast growth" and "tall" seem to be crawing with:

Generalities, Tall: calc-p, kreos, mag-p, phos, tub

Generalities, Growth, in Length, too fast: Bac, calc, calc-p, ferr,
ferr-acet, guai, hipp, iod, irid, kreos, nat-m, ph-ac, phos, sulph

(Hm, if I'd looked here first, probably I'd have tried Tub before Med.)

But--so you *don't* think that taste in music in any way mirrors the
internal state, and you don't think the internal state has any
relationship to miasm?

Okay, not need to beat it to death, but I'm puzzled...
Best wishes,
Shannon

[Tanya Marquette]

i do think taste in music reflects the internal state. but as i tried to
discuss in a previous post, you need to factor in the cultural
environment, too. our super fast paced culture filled with high
anxiety and little hope for the future is going to up the ante
on many levels and music is a significant reflection of that.

tanya

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Shannon,
But if I understood you correctly, he developed this taste for the
"horrible music" (I'd probably agree that I also would dislike it - I
do not know it) suddenly. If that liking is connected to a miasm, the
sudden change would have meant a sudden popping up of a miasm or a
sudden change of it?

In terms of his *growth*, tubercular makes
Yes, sure.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "in any way", but when I developed a
liking for heavy metal after being forced to listen to it for a while,
that was not connected to a change of my internal state.

and you don't think the internal state has any relationship to miasm?
Not unless it is a pathological state. Miasms - any way the concept is
used - surely denotes a *pathological* state. Pathologies certainly
CAN change the inner state and the inner state CAN be a sight of pathology
- miasm or not.

The question is whether a liking for a certain kind of music, any kind
of music, is a sign of a pathological state.

It is at least theoretically possible to consider that someone is
perfectly healthy. What kind of music would s/he like?

What kind of music would mean that the people who like it are
reasonably healthy?
Well, so am I:-)

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[rogermassey_homeo]

I think taste in music along with other different characteristics
define a person. It shows what traits, characters a person has.

A jump from that to what remedy he would need might be made- but
this is a kind of clinical symptom based on some observations,
which are not many at present. We could accept this kind of jump if
there are no other indicators and if these jumps have some good
proof of working in the past.

In this instance - if there is just a change in the taste of music
with all the other factors remaining constant then it would become
interesting and useful; but if a change in taste of music
accompanies many other changes that occur during such a tumultous
teenage - how much importance does that get? Once again if you know
his / her friends and all of them listen to a different kind of
music and the patient is the only one within his cultural group that
goes for this music - then it is significant. But if he/she is just
running with the crowd- then it is not rebellion, it is
conforming... they are just conforming to the rules of another
system... it is not just music preference but the whole gestalt of
the changes occurring that would guide you- the reason that they
took up such music would have more importance than some instant
miasmatic diagnosis to pigeon-hole their experience.

I do not think that we know as much about music and miasm to make
any miasmatic diagnostic calls...are there any case records that
suggest that after treating with Tuberculinum or Syphilinum there
are some total changes in what a person listens to? More than
physical symptoms music is more prone to a shared experience and so
here any importance given to it has to be judged not only with the
past of the patient, but also with the present community that
fosters such interest and experience...

In these situations the best indicator would be - if the medicine
was selected using some other physical symptoms and then the desire
for horrible music ( this is a judgment call, it might be better to
state the genre of the music) disappears, then the symptom becomes
highly important and also a valuable addition to our materia medica-
in the right way. This is a cured "symptom" ( it is an unfortunate
symptom - the patient does not complain about it, it is NOT
pathological - reminds me of Thomas Szasz - The myth of mental
illness-)
I like this quote of Thomas Szasz I find in Wikipedia
"The struggle for definition is veritably the struggle for life
itself. In the typical Western two men fight desperately for the
possession of a gun that has been thrown to the ground: whoever
reaches the weapon first shoots and lives; his adversary is shot and
dies. In ordinary life, the struggle is not for guns but for words;
whoever first defines the situation is the victor; his adversary,
the victim. For example, in the family, husband and wife, mother and
child do not get along; who defines whom as troublesome or mentally
sick?...[the one] who first seizes the word imposes reality on the
other; [the one] who defines thus dominates and lives; and [the one]
who is defined is subjugated and may be killed."[2]
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "tamarque@..." wrote:
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[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Luise,
Yes.
Or sudden intensification of it?
For the past year he's been on a rather outlandish growth spurt. In
that year has gone from pretty much 50th percentile (maybe a bit more
for height) to something like 90th--suddenly the second tallest kid in
his class. It's stressed him physiologically; gone thru a really
"nice," intense calc-p (could not think or do math to save his life,
plus a charming "attitude", those are the main things I recall--calc-p
high made a dramatic and lasting difference, tho haven't ruled out
giving it again). He's sleeping a phenomenal amount, and pretty much
hiding out. No energy for anything "extra", including that my formerly
very social boy now has very little interest in *anything* that would
take him out of his room or away from the house--weird! (That doesn't
seem like Tub, does it...)

Tub does fit the suddenness of the growth spurt, which I have assumed
to be related to the suddenness in his change in musical taste, but I
could be wrong.

What's your thought about it?
Certainly other factors also influence musical choice!! Association,
familiarity, etc., sure. Which is why I made of point of saying I did
NOT see any of that to explain his sudden change. Which is why I've
seen it as very much a reflector of his inner state.

And I am specifically speaking about pathological states.
To my mind, a preference for music with themes of killing, suicide,
hopelessness, hatred and despair is, sorry, reflective of a
pathological state. Pardon my judgment!
Agreed. That's in the definition.
I agree that it need not *necessarily* be. I suppose, in theory, one
could become so accustomed to lyrics about murder, mutilation, etc.,
that one finds it "interesting" or "amusing", or simply tunes out the
lyrics. I'm not sure I can imagine a situation, tho, where *liking* to
have one's head filled with those images is really compatible with good
mental health. Maybe I'm mistaken... But again, none of that applies
to my son's situation. He IS in a "pathological" M/E state: not
horribly pathological, I'm not saying there's anything dreadful or even
unusual going on, but I AM saying that there *is* inner unease, showing
up in many ways, and that is the only potential explanation I see for
the sudden taste in music, and as such I am assuming that the music is
mirroring etc.

His taste is specific. He doesn't, for instance, like rap--which can
be just as intense, intrusive, etc.--and he's not into the ones about
"knockin' my lady around, feels so good to see her cry", etc.; that is
not his pathology, and that is not the music he chooses.

Wide range of possibilities.
Most music IMO would qualify.

Might or might not be relevant, but there are numerous studies showing
the different kinds of music (I think it was specifically different
patterns of rhythm and possibly melody?) have distinct physiological
effects, and that some rhythms have disturbing (in the sense of
changing them from optimal) physiological effects, whereas others have
optimizing effects; not only on human volunteers, but even on animals
and plants.

Not every liking for "disturbing" influences is necessarily a sign of
something, I'd think, and yet at some point doesn't it become so? At
some point you have to wonder what is being suppressed, or avoided, or
compensated--at least that is the way my thoughts run, if I see a habit
of self-damaging behavior. I think in part it's a matter of degree,
and in part a matter of context. In my son's case both "degree" and
"context" seem, IMO, to support the idea that his current musical
choices are not just a la-de-dah isn't music great meaningless
coincidence.
For a start, something that doesn't involve repeated themes of death,
revenge, suicide, supernatural threats, etc. Does the music you've
become fond of lean heavily on those themes, by any chance? If so, do
you actually enjoy the messages, or do you just let them slide by?

Best wishes,
Shannon