Potency Question

[Natasha]

Hello!

I am looking for some opinions/experiences on antidoting.

When Antidoting, standard treatment is to:

1. Choose a Rx from the list of antidotes.
2. Choose a Rx based on patient's reaction.

But this is my real question:
3. What potency?

Would it be reasonable to match potencies, 30 for 30, 200 for 200, and 1M for 1M?
Thanks,
Natasha
Homeopathic Student
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

If you need to antidote, please re-take the patient's case and prescribe the
best remedy you can find to match those symptoms.

Choose your potency on the basis of the strength of symptoms the pt is
showing.
Best to drop the pill in 150-250 ml of water and succuss if a dose needs to
be repeated.

Rgds
Soroush

[Dave Hartley]

Good instruction.
In-depth understanding of the phenomena of homeopathic aggravation, (similar
aggravation, dis-similar aggravation, accessory symptom) and "healing
crises" may be assisted by studying:
http://www.simillimum.com/Thelittlelibr ... tions.html
http://www.simillimum.com/Thelittlelibr ... /aggr.html

Usually the best "antidote" is the Simillimum.
Occasionally, one might need to re-take the case with bias toward "new &
troublesome symptoms" -though if the new symptoms were dis-similar to the
case as a whole, and not terribly troublesome- I'd give them lesser
consideration.
Dave Hartley
http://www.localcomputermart.com
Santa Cruz, CA (831)423-4284

Tri-Cities Computer (TN) |Asheville Computer (NC)
423-952-0983 or 877-245-3362 |(828)285-0240
$9.95 internet http://www.federalisp.com/?page=ispsignup

[Shannon Nelson]

I know that potency questions are tricky, and lots of possible answers,
but... I'm curious what people's experiences have been with using either
30c *or lower potencies* to treat deep-seated (mental level) and
long-standing conditions? I read cases where 30c produces miraculous
results -- but I have also had a couple where 30c aggravated rather than
producing much movement -- but 1M worked smoothly and well. (Both of those
were cases where high potency was strongly indicated, and the remedy picture
was clear.)

But if I am unsure of the remedy, I am very leery of using a high potency
(and this is for someone for whom all the "easy" thoughts have already
failed; so now I am exploring some for which the picture is not well
developed...). Yet I wonder whether 12 might be "too low"???

On a few people I have seen good results using 12c (repeated every few days,
or as needed) to treat even deep conditions, and once we'd established that
that remedy/potency was working, we then moved on to single dose/high, which
worked very well also. But now I wonder whether this will normally be the
case -- why would 12c be more effective in a deep condition than 30c????
Wondering whether the differences in action that I've observed are flukes
based on too-small sample size, or whether 12c can actually treat more
"deeply" (even tho more briefly) than 30...

Any thoughts???

Thanks!
Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Shannon, I think much of this hinges on whether this is the correct
remedy or not. If unsure of a remedy I would be "leery" of prescribing it at
all. But if you really do have to go forward with 'some remedy or another'
then it is usually considered prudent to stay low.

As to whether low potencies can reach deep levels - of course they can. LM's
are 'low' and can reach all levels but so can 6c, 12c 30c - it really
depends on the individual case.

You give an example where a 30 aggravates but a 1m smooths out - this is
common enough as is the method to go higher when a so called aggravation
occurs.

Also low potencies are so valuable when there is a long standing condition -
the lower potencies possibly lending themselves to repeating more often
although this is a moot point and is theoretical for many.

I would ask that if the picture is not well developed - then why is that?
Usually there is always a way of confirming a remedy, you just need to
employ it.

On a practical level, for example, it is perfectly reasonable to give
repeated low doses (whether LM's or C or X) to someone who is schizophrenic,
on heavy allopathic drugs. This is about as deep seated as you can get and
there are so many other examples one could use - epilepsy, cancer, motor
neuron disease, alzheimers, etc - so yes, celebrate the low potencies if it
suits the case.

Hope this helps, Joy

on 7/2/03 11:09 AM, Bob/Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:

I know that potency questions are tricky, and lots of possible answers,
but... I'm curious what people's experiences have been with using either
30c *or lower potencies* to treat deep-seated (mental level) and
long-standing conditions? I read cases where 30c produces miraculous
results -- but I have also had a couple where 30c aggravated rather than
producing much movement -- but 1M worked smoothly and well. (Both of those
were cases where high potency was strongly indicated, and the remedy picture
was clear.)

But if I am unsure of the remedy, I am very leery of using a high potency
(and this is for someone for whom all the "easy" thoughts have already
failed; so now I am exploring some for which the picture is not well
developed...). Yet I wonder whether 12 might be "too low"???

On a few people I have seen good results using 12c (repeated every few days,
or as needed) to treat even deep conditions, and once we'd established that
that remedy/potency was working, we then moved on to single dose/high, which
worked very well also. But now I wonder whether this will normally be the
case -- why would 12c be more effective in a deep condition than 30c????
Wondering whether the differences in action that I've observed are flukes
based on too-small sample size, or whether 12c can actually treat more
"deeply" (even tho more briefly) than 30...

Any thoughts???

Thanks!
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Joy,

Thanks for the encouragement re low!

on 7/2/03 7:55 PM, Joy Lucas at joy.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:
Yes... My puzzlement has been over whether I'm better off "staying low"
with 30 (which is what I've mostly been taught) or with 12 (which I have
*seemed* to see better results with, but I was feeling unsure whether this
will necessarily be "high enough" for the people I'm looking at). But as
this conversation reminds me of bits from the past, I think perhaps I'll
assume it will... And give it a try.
Sure, because it's so variable from case to case. And yet, *other things
being equal*, experience seems to bear out the idea that higher potencies
hold longer than lower; at least the few cases where I used low and high of
the same remedy certainly did. (I do realize this isn't always so, which is
why it's necessary to *see* when and whether repetition is needed.)
Ouch, I know.
In the cases I'm floundering on, the problem isn't necessarily that the
picture isn't "well-developed"... Each of the cases has *lots* of symptoms,
but I am having trouble matching them to the remedy. One is a very
"complex" case with lots of interfering factors; another is someone who has
trouble communicating; another is a child who's had many remedies over many
years, but no one has figured out what she "really" needs...
Cool.
Makes a great deal of sense thanks again!!

Shannon

[Joy Lucas]

Dear Shannon,

you wrote (amongst other things)

In the cases I'm floundering on, the problem isn't necessarily that the
picture isn't "well-developed"... Each of the cases has *lots* of symptoms,
but I am having trouble matching them to the remedy. One is a very
"complex" case with lots of interfering factors; another is someone who has
trouble communicating; another is a child who's had many remedies over many
years, but no one has figured out what she "really" needs...
These are just the sort of cases which 'try' our experience as practitioners
and they are also the ones that it is so important to get right (all cases
are, but these are the ones where we are able to move up the experience
ladder if we do get them right).

Personally, I would suggest you either get some supervision for these
difficult cases or really spend more time on them so that the symptoms DO
match a remedy, otherwise you could end up messing up the case, or worse,
suppressing important symptoms, regardless of whether you use low potencies
or not. Using low potencies is not an excuse for not getting the remedy
right.

I don't know how you take the case or what methods you use to ascertain the
simillimum but I would emphasise the Materia medica work involved. Don't
give a remedy just because you have to without feeling that it really fits
the case.

Best wishes, Joy

PS apologies for the heavy chastisement )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Many years ago, there lived this old boy called Hahnemann. The jury is out
on whether he knew anything about homoeopathy, but just before he died he
left this manuscript better known as Organon 6.

In that he recommends LMs as his 'Perfected Method' and generally describes
how remedies in water work better than dry.

When all fails, I think it may be useful to re-read what this old boy had to
say.

Never automatically repeat a dose - repeat only when circumstances demand
it. This applies to any potency.

Good healing
Soroush
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Soroush,

Was this in reply to any particular post, or just general interest?
I agree -- Hahnemann's cool... It's helpful to include just a bit of
whatever post you're replying to...


Shannon
on 7/3/03 2:52 PM, Finrod at finrod@webstar.co.uk wrote:

[Joy Lucas]

Soroush, I am not sure what your little story has to do with the question
asked but I think it is far more important to individualise a case rather
than routinely prescribe any remedy, even LM's.

I have had numerous cases where LM's have failed to bring about cure but
when given a 30c there has been immediate good reaction. Of course we do not
have the science to tell us whether it was the original LM just beginning to
work, or the 30c working on its own or a combination of the two but
coincidence is revealing. So I personally disagree with routine potency
prescribing.

Also, if you wade through your materia medicas you will see that there are,
in fact, some remedies, such as Crataegus for example, which benefit by
repetition - they actually require a cumulative dose to work at best.

Regards, Joy