To Sheri Nakken about Eczema

[Bill Giman]

Hi Sheri and all,

About a month ago, someone requested info about eczema for a patient.
I recommended adding the EFA Omega6 to the diet.

You contradicted that recommendation, saying the Omega3 was more important.

I have found my documentation to back up my recommendation:

Skin cells have almost no Omega3, only Omega6. Orthomoleculer medicine
only recommends Omega6's.

Fish oil (Omega3)supplementation is dangerous to one's health.

Suggest you go to www.brian-peskin.com and read the EFA analysis.

Regards,
Bill G.

[Teresa Kramer]

That address (www.brian-peskin.com ) did not compute. Surely you are wrong about fish oil supplementation being dangerous, as long as it has been purified of mercury etc. as reputable supplements are. Teresa (Northern VA)
________________________________

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Giman
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:32 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] To Sheri Nakken about Eczema
Hi Sheri and all,

About a month ago, someone requested info about eczema for a patient.
I recommended adding the EFA Omega6 to the diet.

You contradicted that recommendation, saying the Omega3 was more important.

I have found my documentation to back up my recommendation:

Skin cells have almost no Omega3, only Omega6. Orthomoleculer medicine
only recommends Omega6's.

Fish oil (Omega3)supplementation is dangerous to one's health.

Suggest you go to www.brian-peskin.com and read the EFA analysis.

Regards,
Bill G.

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

TRY http://www.brianpeskin.com/

Regards

Soroush

[Bill Giman]

The correct URL is:

www.brianpeskin.com

[Sheri Nakken]

Hi Bill,

I'll look at it but have had much success with Omega 3 and research I did
in the past. Have not found it to be dangerous in the least

URL you posted below does not work for Brian Peskin - and there is much
controversy surrounding him - but then again, there is much surrounding
homeopaths.

You haven't provided much proof of your statements

Google on +omega+3+eczema

"In fact, North American and Israeli diets tend to have too much omega-6,
particularly in relation to omega-3 fatty acids."
"A healthy diet should consist of roughly one omega-3 fatty acids to four
omega-6 fatty acids. A typical American diet, however, tends to contain 11
to 30 times more omega-6 than omega-3 fatty acids."
Read further in that article
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-6-000317.htm

Omega 3's need to supplemented because of this imbalance

And how on earth do you come to this conclusion "> Fish oil
(Omega3)supplementation is dangerous to one's health."
You might want to read Omega 3 research.

Certainly the right balance of Omega 6 and 3 is necessary.
If there is no quality Omega 6 in the diet, of course you would want to
help with that.
Omega 6 GLA is useful then
And sometimes there is poor conversion of Omega 6 to GLA
But it is about lack of Omega 6 GLA, not Omega 6 of any type
But not in isolation from looking at Omega 3 in the diet

It is about ratio. Some medical research has suggested that excessive
levels of omega-6 acids, relative to Omega-3 fatty acids, may increase the
probability of a number of diseases and depression.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... st_uids=12
442909&dopt=AbstractPlus
The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-linolenic_acid
The medical use of GLA has been controversial. David Horrobin published
much research on the use of GLA (as evening primrose oil) as a dietary
supplement for treating atopic eczema; (e.g. Horrobin, 2000). He also
founded Scotia Pharmaceuticals, which sold this oil as a pharmaceutical,
which led to controversy even after his death (Williams 2003).

http://tinyurl.com/344sw7
BMJ 2003;327:1358-1359 (13 December), doi:10.1136/bmj.327.7428.1358
Editorial
Evening primrose oil for atopic dermatitis
Time to say goodnight
http://www.c-c-l.com/products.asp?paget ... prodname=G
AMMA%20LINOLENIC%20ACID%20(GLA)

All needs to be looked at but primarily most people are LARGELY deficient
in Omega 3.

Udo's Oil (from Udo Erasmus) is one product that combines Omega 3, 6 & 9 in
a ratio that is thought to be correct but that is still being debated

http://www.laleva.org/eng/2006/11/asthm ... tocol.html
Antiinflammatories

Omega-3 fatty acids. Another star in the nutritional arsenal, omega-3 fatty
acids are found in flaxseed and fish oils and are particularly high in
fatty, deep-water fish like salmon, tuna, and mackerel. Actually
incorporating itself into the fatty membrane that surrounds a cell, fish
oil works as a natural antiinflammatory substance that inhibits a powerful,
hormone-like substance known as prostaglandin E2

In general, oils such as omega-3 fatty acids are beneficial for the body.
Other oils, such as omega-6 fatty acids, are important but can lead to
inflammation when taken in excess. Omega-6 fatty acids have been linked to
cancer in studies at the Strang Institute in New York City. They do not
necessarily cause cancer, but they increase the
activity of carcinogenic endproducts of estrogen.

Studies on fish oil have produced uneven results, mainly because the length
of the studies has varied enormously, from ten weeks to a year. Most
studies have shown a significant response at the cellular level within ten
weeks, so that key inflammatory cells (called neutrophils) quiet down and
fire significantly fewer red-alert
messages.

More important, fish oils moderate the late-phase reaction. Asthma involves
both an acute inflammatory response and a secondary, late-phase reaction
that can occur up to twenty-four hours later and last for weeks. That
late-phase response is now believed to be the cause of chronic asthma and
tissue damage, and it is halted by fish oils. A dramatic clinical response,
however, can take as long as six to nine months. That seems to be how long
it takes to repair longterm damage to the lungs. Remember, unlike drugs,
fish oils offer a gentle treatment that slowly, over time, helps the body
repair tissue damage.

more at webpage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

The only way to look at this is to individualize it to the patient/client -
look at their diet, see what they are getting for Omega 3 and Omega 6
And you have to look at Omega 6
But in my experience Omega 3's have been very helpful.
Never have I found they are dangerous

It is about balance between them all and individualizing.
Sheri
At 06:31 PM 9/5/2007 GMT, you wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network (new website)
http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm
http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes - next one September 5, 2007
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes - September 6, 2007
ONLINE Intro to Diseases - Risk, Reality & Alternative Treatment September
5, 2007
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

[Shannon M]

Hi Bill,

For some reason I am only able to get the first page of the article.
Can you tell us what LA and ALA stand for? (Is that lipoic acid and
alpha-lipoic acid?)
Thanks,
Shannon

[Bill Giman]

If you can't get the EFA article from brian peskin's URL, try:

www.brianpeskin.com/efa-analysis.pdf

[Irene de Villiers]

Shannon wrote:

In my opinion (and I am acronym challenged so perhaps prejudiced in
favour of clarity) it's important to always state what the abbreviations
are for. In essential fatty acid speak, LA is often linoleic acid (plant
omega-6) and ALA is often (not always) alpha linolenic acid (plant
omega-3). The website referred to by Bill Giman did not bother to
stipulate but it fits the context of the website later on.

I'm concerned that anyone would even consider omega-6 relevant to eczema
unless the individual has a *seriously* weird diet of all fish oil and
no other oil - or ate no essential acids to speak of. The American diet
is seriously skewed to excess omega-6, and too low DHA and EPA as found
in fish oil (viz docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid
respectively).
Unlike the "ALA" omega-3 found in plants such as flax, the omega-3s
of DHA and EPA in fish oil are anti-inflamamtory. So is the omega-9
fatty acid in extra virgin olive oil. All other plant oils are
inflamamtory at cell wall phospholipid layer level.

At the cell wall phospholipid layer level, all the omega-6 fatty
acids are actually inflamamtory, due to the prostaglandins being more
powerful than other eicosanoids from omega-6 fatty acids and due to
their proinflammatory leukotriene LTB(4).

What's important about omega-6 oils is that they do have essential
functions in the body - but they are not functions associated with the
health of the cell wall phospholipid layer.

What's needed is the right balance to ensure that the phospho-lipid
layer of all the cell walls of all body cells is in an anti-inflammatory
(flexible) state. To do this requires a diet with a net
anti-inflamamtory total especially in essential fatty acids - but also
in other food components. So even if the fatty acids are fantastically
well selected - mostly fish oil and EV olive oil - and a high
carbohydrate load is added, the carbs can tip the scales back to an
inflammatory result. so can an excess of omega-6 containing oils or flax
or other plant oils with high plant omega-3.
If the cell wall lipid layer is in a NET anti-inflammatory state,
then the cell wall will flex to allow in nutrients and flex to allow out
toxins. It's the physical flexibility and the shape of the "holes" so
created in the phospho-lipid layer of cell walls, that allows the cells
to hand-hold nutrients wanting to come in and toxins needing to go out.

Eczema is more complicated than whether the cell walls are in an
anti-inflamamtory state or an inflammatory one though this IS an
essential aspect. It also is a function of the state of the immune
system, which involves skewing to TH-2 cytokine overproduction in
eczema. However it needs the cells in anti-inflamamtory state as a
prerequisite to coming right. As to what else is needed nutritionally
in eczema, it is indiviaul and any number of nutrients might be
undersupplied as a result of either dietary imbalances or stress
over-consumption of nutrients. (Eczema is a stress disease and uses up
lots of nutrients.)
It is the immune system imbalance that IMO needs serious homeopathy
- and diet is needed in addition to that. Neither will succeed alone in
resolving eczema permanently.

Quote from his website:
"Brian Peskin earned his Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical
Engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) in 1079."
I'm not sure how this is supposed to impress me in terms of claimed
knowledge about EFA's in 2007. The fact that he states only 2 fatty
acids are essential worries me. Arachidonic acid is also essential.
"Essential" in this context means we can not make our own - it does not
mean other fatty acids are not essential - it just means that in theory
we can make the others that are essential to us.
But that's not really representative of the truth. We can make a
VERY limited amount - not enough for good health.
For example we need EPA and DHA which come from fish oil. In theory we
can make some from the "essential" ones but in practice we can make VERY
little due to a mechanism we have that prevents conversion of more than
a little "essential" fatty acid. So we NEED to get the rest from fish
oil directly (no doubt due to a built-in mechanism to "protect" the
supply of "essential" fatty acids.)
We also need the arachidonic acid from meat.

Fatty acids are indeed relevant in eczema to get back to the subject,
but the experiment in 1942 that showed patients improved on corn oil is
out of date. There are too many factors in eczema to consider this proof
of omega-6 being "the fix" for eczema.
In fact there is more recent research to show that EPA and DHA actually
reverse the skewed cytokine production, reducing the atopy that is part
of eczema (essentially making the individual less allergic.)
A LACK of omega-6 oils is rare but would interfere with growth, if
that were an issue. Eczema is seldom growth-related (as in associated
with lack of growth). On the contrary it is classified a chronic
aoto-immune disease, as a result of atopy, and skewed cytokine production.
It's thus likely to respond to anti-inflamamtory fatty acids best.
(Fish oil and extra virgin olive oil.)

[See PubMed for lots of detailed research on this.]

It was when I limited dietary fat back in the 1970s that I had
eczema...... Now - you could not pay me to add plant oils other than
e.v. olive to my diet in any quantity ) that and fish oil has
improved my health by leaps and bounds as the research would predict:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Shannon M]

Thanks Irene,
It's worth note that some practitioners (naturapathic and ??) do put
some patients on a diet heavily (and I mean HEAVILY) supplemented with
flax oil, and no other... It seems to work for the patients, but
perhaps if someone followed this long-term when it was intended only as
short-term therapy??

But also, doesn't GLA come into play for some cases of eczema? Perhaps
it's not appropriate to lump them all together, assuming that, because
we get plenty (too much) of some Omega 6s, that therefore we don't need
*any* of them? I'm only wondering... In the past my son (then I think
11 years old) did seem to respond well to Borage oil (behavioral
issues), tho I did not compare his response to fish oil
(unfortunately); which I believe is given for its GLA (an omega 6)
content?? I really would love to understand that whole issue better.
Personally I was AMAZED at how helpful I have found DHA/EPA, for
myself. (I haven't tried borage oil for myself--but now I think I will
do that, just to compare!)

Thanks for all this very interesting information!
Do you have particular thoughts about borage oil, and why it might be
helpful to some (like my son, at that time)?
Shannon

[Irene de Villiers]

Shannon wrote:

Often an eczema patient has had a complete lack of proper fatty acids
and in that case any fatty acids will get the ball rolling towards
better health - and the "essential" ones will get to work making the
others. So you'd expect an immediate improvement from flax oil yes - but
long-term it is balance that's needed. Otherwise you get mental
depression, depressed immune system, heart disease, cancer, alzheimers,
etc (and wrinkles in case that matters most to the individual!)
A good ratio of omega-6 and omega-3 is 2 parts omega-6 to 1 part omega-3.

Options:
Omega-3 fatty acids:

* EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) from fish oil, and anti-inflamamtory
* DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) from fish oil, and anti-inflamamtory
* alpha-linolenic acid
* alpha-linoleic acid

Omega-6 fatty acids:

* linoleic acid (from plant oils)
* gamma-linoleic acid
* gamma-linolenic acid
* arachidonic acid (from animal fat)

EPA and DHA are active as they come. Alpha and gamma fatty acids are
activated forms of linoleic and linolenic acids and require an enzyme
called delta-6 desaturase to be activated. People with eczema do not
have it, making borage oil, evening primrose oil, blackcurrant oil and
CLA (C for conjugated, also an active form) supplements attractive as
they all provide active form fatty acid. GLA is gamma linolenic acid
from the 3 mentioned oils; it's not in fish oil.
Yes especially because those with eczema are not converting fatty acids
to active form, so they need them supplied in already activated form.
I think it's due to the inability to activate fatty acids that even
activated omega-6 will help them. We do need 2 parts omega-6 to one of
omega-3 - it's just that as you mentioned the typical diet is loaded
with plant oils full of omega-6 and almost devoid of fish oil in the diet.
Flax has inflammatory linolenic acid omega-3 - better than nothing,
as it can convert a LITTLE to other needed ones - provided there is
delta-6 desaturase to activate it - and that's missing in those with
exzema.
Yes borage is used for GLA content. It's the issue of needing activated
fatty acids and chronic illness often not doing that conversion - that
makes GLA attractive. Also fish oil.
Both are good - depends what you looking to get into balance.
EPA and DHA are ready to go in fish oil for ideal omega-3 source.
GLa enables you to better use other sources of fatty acids.
Apart from fat tissue, the brain contains more fatty acids than any
other part of the body, it's about half fatty acids. So ANY deficiency
will cause serious problems (of the kind ranging from behaviour problems
to alzheimer's problems). The main two brain fatty acids are arachidonic
acid (AA) as found in animal fat, and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) as
found in fish oil.
AA and DHA can also be synthesized from linoleic acid and
{alpha}-linolenic acid in the diet. The problem is they need to be
activated - hence the GLA issue.
Perhaps your son for some reason was short of delta-6-desaturase
enzyme to convert linoleic and linolenic acids to active form?
Deficiency of AA and DHA in the brain or of linoleic and linolenic acids
in the diet have been shown in animal studies to cause learning and
behavioural difficulties - and also that recuperation after deficiency
is very slow. A shortage of DHA especially during pregnancy when the
fetal brain is developing, is particularly problematic per research.

Basically I consider that our anti-fat society is the cause of a great
deal of suffering from brain damage!

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."