Need help with severe back pain

[DCR]

In this case I was asking the group for perspective and guidance. I have experience in dealing with long term overuse of allopathics. I have no experience in dealing with self directed overuse of homeopathic remedies on this level. The muddle before me was intense and I was looking for ANYTHING to help this lady. The advice ranged from general to specific, some based on significant experience. All is most greatfully appreciated.
Yes, since I am unable to help her find an accupuncturist or appropriate physical therapist/doctor, I am still looking to see if a homeopathic remedy could be effective in giving acute relief in this situation. Even if not for this specific case, as homeopathic remedies are used by more and more individuals who are guided by magazine articles, health food store clerks, and internet research - this will likely happen more often. So this case will initiate more study on my part.

[DCR]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[Jean Doherty]

As weather mentioned several times

BACK; PAIN; General; weather; cold, change to (4) : Calc-p., Dulc., rhod., rhus-t.
BACK; PAIN; General; weather; damp, wet, in (10) : Calc., Dulc., Rhus-t., nux-m., phyt., rhod., calc-p., med., sep., syc-co.
BACK; PAIN; General; cervical region; weather, windy (1) : calc-p.
BACK; PAIN; General; dorsal region; weather, cold wet (1) : rhod.
BACK; PAIN; General; dorsal region; scapulae; between; weather, in cold, damp, wet (1) : nux-m.
BACK; PAIN; General; lumbar region, lumbago; weather; cold agg. (1) : allox.
BACK; PAIN; General; lumbar region, lumbago; weather; damp, wet, in; agg. (6) : Dulc., Rhod., calc., ran-b., rhus-t., ba-sv.
BACK; PAIN; General; lumbar region, lumbago; weather; damp, wet, in; amel. (1) : allox.
BACK; PAIN; General; lumbosacral region; weather, wet agg. (1) : allox.
BACK; PAIN; General; sacral region; weather; cold agg. (1) : allox.
BACK; PAIN; General; sacral region; weather; wet agg. (1) : allox.
BACK; PAIN; drawing; cervical region; weather, in windy (1) : calc-p.
BACK; PAIN; sore, bruised, beaten; lumbar region; weather, in wet (2) : Rhod., Rhus-t.
BACK; PAIN; wrenching; weather, in wet (1) : rhod.
BACK; STIFFNESS; weather, in wet (2) : Rhus-t., phyt.
BACK; STIFFNESS; Cervical region; weather; change of, from (1) : bamb-a.
BACK; STIFFNESS; Cervical region; weather; damp, wet, stormy, from (1) : bamb-a.
Thought the Vit D a good idea perhaps also a good calcium[ [hydroxypatite form] magnesium supplement, jean

[McPhee Family]

Could you use the "sometimes" chronic of Rhus Tox which can often (not always) be Calcarea? Is she following the series of Arnica, Rhus, Calcarea? Calcarea is also (3) for cold, wet weather agg. and back pain symptoms galore.
What are the symptoms of homeopathic overload? Is she aggravating and developing additional dissimilar symptoms? Or is it simply because the Rhus Tox no longer works?
If aggravating... there are some homeopaths who will use the same remedy to antidote especially if an aggravation. See good description here: http://www.hpathy.com/interviews/dianefuller1.asp I have found this to work in some cases, but not all.
Is the remedy "overused" or just not used properly? This is the key to determine your next step. We all know the simillimum is not just the right remedy but also the right potency and dose. So yes, you can give the same remedy if it is the *right* remedy. So you have to determine is it the right remedy or was it just palliative. The big question is - is it aggravating or is it not strong enough. Careful review of her responses to the initial doses will help.
Seems the initial symptoms were relieved very well with Rhus so this may indicate the right remedy. It appears her symptoms have come back unaltered? Did she improve and then symptoms came back again the same but stronger? If so, the next higher potency to the last taken should be considered. If she has not been water dosing, this would be the first thing you might change. If she doses in water, she can succuss the bottle to increase the potency for every dose which can be repeated as needed as long as the remedy is bringing positive response and then falls off.
If the symptoms have not changed, and the correct perscription was Rhus, it does not call for a change in remedy - it calls for the right (higher) potency and dose. If a higher potency is tried and not successful then the remedy should be changed. Perhaps Calcarea...I would of course take the full case (or at least try to get additional modalities out of her - you know it's worse for wet weather but what is it better for? When she walks does it improve or aggravate? What is her M/E state? Sepia which is also worse cold wet weather with spine/back pain and inflammation issues, follows Rhus well? Endless possibilities!).
Hope that helps!
Truly,
Erica
Those of you who suggest re-using an already overused remedy - could you please elaborate on how and why you would suggest this - and how you would determine the potency necessary to overcome the current severe pain? This approach is outside my training or experience and I would appreciate learning more.

[Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD]

Another theoretical way to "neutralize" homeopathic remedies is with essential oils; so she might enjoy a very hot bath with lavender oil and a local rub of it wherever it hurts.
It might give her relief while overcoming the residual effect of the remedies.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Donna,
How about taking a look at dulcamara in this specific case:

Cold wet weather is THE leading symptom of this remedy.

e. g. from Clarke:

Characteristics.-The leading indication for the homœopathic use of
Dulcamara is found in its modality, " by pressure.
Pain in small of back, as after stooping a long time.
Severe rheumatic stitching pressing pains in arms and back, after
catching cold while sweating ; pains
from motion ; slight fever, much thirst.
Burning in head, with stupefying headache, red face, dry tongue,
burning heat in gums, unquenchable thirst for extremely cold drinks ;
anorexia ; urine very red, with painful burning on urination ;
sleepless ; skin dry and hot, burning sensation in skin ; severe
rheumatic stitching, drawing in small of back, shoulders, and arms ;
after getting wet whilst warm.
Lameness in the small of the back, from a cold.
Cold chilly feeling in small of back.
Sacrum feels cold.

From Allen's Encyclopedia:

Back. # Dull, throbbing stitches in the left side, near the spine, at
intervals, [4]. # Dorsal. # Intermitting pressure on the left side of
the upper part of the spine, in the nape of the neck, while lying on
the back in the morning in the bed, [4]. # Tearing thrusts on the
outer side of the right scapula at intervals, [4]. # Painful stitches
in the middle of the spine on breathing, [2]. # Tickling stitch in the
middle of the right scapula, [2]. # Drawing-tearing on the external
margin of the right scapula (sixth day), [2]. # Lumbar. [310.] #
Burrowing sticking in the left loin, disappearing while walking,
returning while sitting, [2]. # Dull stitch from within outward in the
left loin, just above the hip, on every inspiration, [4]. # Deeply
cutting pain in the right loin, just above the hip, inspiration, [4].
# *Deeply cutting pain in the right loin, transiently disappearing
upon pressure, afterwards disappearing of its own accord, [2]. # Dull
sticking, lie a forcing out in both loins, on every inspiration, while
sitting bent (after a short walk), [4]. ## *Pain in the small of the
back, as after stooping a long time, [11]. # Sacral. # Burrowing
sticking on the left side near the sacrum, [2]
Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[DCR]

Thank you. Yes dulcamara is an excellent remedy to consider for this case. Just to clarify - the WET weather in terms of approaching storms seems to be the key - there was never any mention of cold. She lives in the tropics.

[DCR]

Funny - I suggested a foot soak with tea tree and eucalyptus essential oils and epsom salts last night. Did not think she should do a hot tub bath until she had a family member nearby, but did suggest Lavender EO when she felt comfortable with the tub.
Another theoretical way to "neutralize" homeopathic remedies is with essential oils; so she might enjoy a very hot bath with lavender oil and a local rub of it wherever it hurts.
It might give her relief while overcoming the residual effect of the remedies.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

[Luise Kunkle]

Hi Donna,
That probably beats dulc. down the drain:-)

How about a remedy like Lachesis? I should really rely heavily on this
symptom - warm-wet and approach of storm aggr. and possibly during
storm aggr.

Lach, sil, Gels are the 3 that turn up in all three rubrics, Lach the
most prominent.

Here is Lachesis from Hering:

NECK AND BACK. [31] [Lach.]
Blueness of external throat from distension of veins.
Intolerance of tight neckbands.
Pain in nape of neck to distraction. # Werlhoff's disease.
Stiff neck, moves jaw with difficulty ; tearing from nape of neck up
either side, to top of head.
Nape of neck painful to touch, and stiff.
Stiffness of neck, on right side, sore to touch, giddiness with
choking in throat.
Nape of neck sensitive to external pressure.
Stiffness of nape of neck, with catarrh.
Swelling entirely on left side ; smooth, livid appearance ;
suffocative sensations produced by touching neck or swelling. #
Bronchocele.
Glands of throat and neck badly swollen. # Scarlatina.
Swelling on left side of neck from angle of jaw downward to near
clavicle, suppurated and abscess was discharged with lancet ; after
this patient declined and became much exhausted in strength ; face
pale, of dirty, dingy hue, with puffy aspect ; appetite nil ;
restlessness day and night ; constant hot, dry skin ; extremely
peevish and whining ; abscess formed a large cavity from which there
was sloughing of cellular tissue ; no sign of healthy granulations ;
discharge foul and copious ; pulse 140 and small ; could not eat solid
food on account of soreness of neck ; extremely sensitive to all
motions of head ; profuse hemorrhage from abscess, at least a pint of
blood ; great prostration, refused food, discharges more foul, pulse
rapid and feeble ; constant leakage of dark colored blood from sore. #
After scarlatina.
Abscess near left clavicle, another on left side of neck. # After
scarlatina.
Stitches in upper part of back, or along spine from below upward, or
in whole back and in nape of neck, with stinging in right arm and
sensation as if it had gone to sleep, with itching on arms, hips and
lower limbs.
From cervical vertebræ down to lumbar, whole right side of back ;
width of three or four inches, much swollen, elastic, painless to
pressure ; dull pains intolerable after exertion, has to lie down in a
kind of tetanic state. # Infiltration of cellular tissue.
Myelitis.
Pain in back, with great restlessness, with yawning and stretching of
arms and legs ; weariness, as from too great exertion, with awkward,
tottering gait, with jerks, taking away breath or going into abdomen ;
small, painful spot, low down in back.
Intolerable drawing in small of back and down into legs, especially
noticed in ischia, frequently in evening ; drawing extending from
small of back up back ; drawing extending from back to hips, with
urging to urinate.
Pain in small of back : as if lame and weak ; intermittent fever ;
palpitation ; dyspn#a ; constipation ; dysmenorrh#a.
Aching pain in lumbar region. # Fistula.
Stiffness in sacrum, bending or beginning motion, extending to hip
joint and thigh as if sinews were too short.
Continual pain in sacrum and coccyx.
Pain in os coccygis, when sitting down, feeling as if sitting on
something sharp.
Continual pain in os sacrum and coccyx ; drawing pain, as if sprained,
in small of back, preventing motion ; agonizing pain when rising from
a seat. # Coccygodynia.
Tenderness in whole spine, most in neck, below occiput ; headache in
occiput and forehead ; on turning or moving head pain in spine of neck
into brain ; pressure of finger on spine of neck sends pain to brain ;
pressure on dorsal spine sends pain to stomach ; cannot bear to be
raised up, and cannot raise herself in bed because of severe pain ;
little sleep.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

[muthu kumar]

Donna-
For a moment do not think about this as a case of homeopathic over-
medication or whatever- forget about that and take her case-

I understand that the aetiology is repeated spinal injury ( staph?)
Or may be also Conium..also covers old age.. Considering that Rhus
has acted well, think of Phytolacca, Calc, Rhod etc. as well-

But

Take the case- even if not fully - at least enough so that you can
make a good prescription...

The one modality you have is < wet weather - what about other
modalities- positional, diurnal vartiations etc. I would say collect
all symptoms as you would in an acute prescription at least - and
should not take too long- and prioritize the symptoms-

Also after this, if there are a lot of symptoms - set aside even
this back pain- look for other symptoms, other indicators- some
other characteristic symptom- lots of times the guide to the correct
medicine is not from the main complaint - but the accompaniments-
the concomitants- so look for those...I cannot overstate the
importance of the concomitants-

When case taking - take all the symptoms - include the drug-related
symptoms as well...the current symptomatology

even if it is a case spoiled by repeated wrong medication - as long
as the patient still responds to homeopathy - the indicated medicine
IS and REMAINS the best antidote to all previous bungling...even if
the indicated remedy were part of the combinations she was using IT
WILL STILL WORK-the same medicine in a combination is different from
the one given on its own- give it high 200 or 1M - do not repeat it
often- if you are confident of the correctness of the selection it
will act-

I do not have experience with rubbing with oils, steroid shock etc.
but in her state I do not think they will just antidote the previous
prescriptions and go away quietly after that- one way or other they
will also impact her constitution and you will have more compounding
of the problem and confusion of symptoms- and in this case might
antidote the future homeopathic prescriptions as well...

I have at various times used Sep, Sulph, Teucrium Marum Verum to
antidote medicinal effects...but if the patient has not become too
sensitive to medicines that the least homeopathic medicine
aggravates or is too unresponsive to any homeopathy- I would rather
go for the indicated medicine than look at antidoting medications
or "jump starting" the system...

Should not underestimate the simillimum....
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "DCR" wrote:
overload of allopathic remedies - but this one is an overload of
homeopathic remedies.
spinal fractures (multiple injuries over the years). I have never
taken her full case, but she has asked general advice over the last
5 years about minor issues and I have mostly suggested the
occasional cell salt, and that she should sit down and we'd work
through her entire case. I knew something else was up - but not
sure. Now I find out she has been independently 'reading', perhaps
getting advice from a 'friend' (a homeopath of questionable
training) and taking multiple homeopathic remedies for the last
year. Yikes.
least 'educate' her about the potential problems of multiple
remedies - but at the moment she doesn't need that - and I only want
to help. She is in great pain (and no - this is not a bid for
attention). She describes the pain in a way that I would normally
jump for Rhus Tox - but she says she's been taking that (in
multiple potencies) for the last few weeks and getting very limited,
short term and now no relief. Poor dear suffers more at the
approach of heavy rains, and they have had weeks of rain and more on
the way. The unrelenting pain is showing in her - she seems weaker,
her gait has been affected, and her spirits seems to be sinking.
She feels her only choice is going to be allopathic pain meds and
she is fully aware they will not help long term - but she is about
at the end of her rope. I know if she chooses that path it will
most likely be the end of her life.
overload and have no idea where to begin. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.