Shannon,
The use of low-protein diets in kidney disease did not come from studies on cats or any other animals. It's a fairly old development (50 years, at least). Human kidneys are adapted to the feast or famine situation that faced our ancestors eons ago. What wears them out is our present constant, ergo excessive, intake of animal proteins. (We end up losing a large part of kidney function by the end of our lives because of this, but for those with relatively healthy kidneys, it's not an issue, because there is so much reserve capacity builty into the kidneys for that feast/famine situation.)
Reducing animal protein (specifically, meat and milk) eases the burden on the kidneys and reduces their exposure to certain fatty acids that promote inflammation. (I don't recall eggs being a problem.)
This is a very simplified version of medical research I read many years ago when I was researching IgA Nephropathy. Please don't ask for a citation, because it's on a very old computer that doesn't talk to this one.
Peace,
Dale
High carbohydrate foods.
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
Finrod wrote:
Hi Soroush,
Mice are snacks in the wild, for small cats. A good meal is a bird
often larger than the cat:-) For example the African Black-Footed cat
(only 3 lbs full grown) will dive into the air and bring down a Koorhen
by the neck - a koorhen being several times the size of the cat! My own
cat Odin for example, caught Cape squirrel (they are larger than ones
here) and Guinea Fowl, which are wild in the Cape Town area and larger
than chickens.
Cats also swim to catch fish.
I do not know about foxes as they are not in Africa where I have studied
wild cats; Africa is where you find Felis lybica (African Wildcat, which
is the genetically proven precursor of the domestic cat).
F lybica looks quite similar - a touch taller maybe than the average cat
and with a slimmer torso, very muscular, but otherwise quite readily
mistaken for a domestic cat.
Cats are statistically the most successful carnivore, which is just as
well since small cats hunt solo, and do not have the advantage of group
hunting as in large cats (lion etc) or dogs.
Cats are masters of stealth, stalking and pouncing, in a huge range of
geographical terrains.
Indeed. Their jaws can not even move side to side, they'd be hard
pressed to even get such food into the center of the mouth to swalllow it:-)
Absolutely.
Isn't that the truth!
It's hard to find "pure food" these days!
NAmaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Hi Soroush,
Mice are snacks in the wild, for small cats. A good meal is a bird
often larger than the cat:-) For example the African Black-Footed cat
(only 3 lbs full grown) will dive into the air and bring down a Koorhen
by the neck - a koorhen being several times the size of the cat! My own
cat Odin for example, caught Cape squirrel (they are larger than ones
here) and Guinea Fowl, which are wild in the Cape Town area and larger
than chickens.
Cats also swim to catch fish.
I do not know about foxes as they are not in Africa where I have studied
wild cats; Africa is where you find Felis lybica (African Wildcat, which
is the genetically proven precursor of the domestic cat).
F lybica looks quite similar - a touch taller maybe than the average cat
and with a slimmer torso, very muscular, but otherwise quite readily
mistaken for a domestic cat.
Cats are statistically the most successful carnivore, which is just as
well since small cats hunt solo, and do not have the advantage of group
hunting as in large cats (lion etc) or dogs.
Cats are masters of stealth, stalking and pouncing, in a huge range of
geographical terrains.
Indeed. Their jaws can not even move side to side, they'd be hard
pressed to even get such food into the center of the mouth to swalllow it:-)
Absolutely.
Isn't that the truth!
It's hard to find "pure food" these days!
NAmaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
Dale Moss wrote:
studies on cats or any other animals.
With respect - why do you say this?
In fact, it's actually quite usual for research on kidneys (and a lot of
other things) to be done in dogs or cats, and extrapolated to humans.
They just do not like to do it on humans directly - gee why I wonder:-)
>
I disagree, based on good research:-))
What wears them out is our poor quality protein eaten, such as soy
protein, and the other factor is unrelated to [protein and related to
inflamamtory food effects - especially from starches and sugars as in
grains and dairy.
>
Kidneys indeed have almost 75% reserve capacity by some estimates - but
why not keep them healthy anyway:-)
burden on the kidneys
Sorry but I see no way to show this.
Lowering meat increases the burden on the kidneys.
Milk I'll agree with - it's inflamamtory - but beef is anti-inflammtory
and most beneficial:-)
This is proved again - directly - in more modern studies on what's
anti-inflamamtory.
inflammation. (I don't recall eggs being a problem.)
You can't have it both ways:-))
Eggs and meat BOTH have arachidonic acid as the major source of fatty
acid. It IS somewhat inflammatory - but it is also necessary for several
functions.
It's necessary to ALSO get anti-inflammatory fatty acids from fish
and extra virgin olive oil in the diet, to balance the arachidonic acid.
Fish oil has eicosapentaenoic acid and docosaheaenoic acid - both
activated and strongly anti-inflammtory../. and EV oliveol has omega-9
fatty acid, also very strongly anti-inflammatory.'
Inflammation-wise - the net total is what counts. If one eats all
inflamamtory foods, the body will suffer (not just the kidneys) and if
one eats more anti-inflamamtory foods than infalammatory ones, the body
will be a LOT healthier.
years ago when I was researching IgA Nephropathy. Please don't ask for
a citation, because it's on a very old computer that doesn't talk to
this one.>>
Sorry but it is necessary to have a real research paper behind anything
that supposedly contradicts (from 50 yrs ago) what so many modern
research papers have shown convincingly, with superior equipment,
background knowledge and study design.
For example, just this month, there is new research showing the
involvement of transcription factor C-Jun, such that activation of c-Jun
is now thought to be involved in the regulation of inflammation and/or
fibrosis in human renal disease in diabetic nephropathy, focal
glomerulosclerosis, hypertension, IgA nephropathy, membranous
glomerulopathy, minimal change disease, membranoproliferative
glomerulonephritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, acute rejection, and
Wegener's granulomatosis.
Also see:
Nippon Jinzo Gakkai Shi. 2006;48(7):675-9. [An IgA nephropathy case with
highly reduced urinary protein concomitant with reduced obesity]
[Article in Japanese]
Nakamura T, Fujikura Y, Suga N, Hatazoe K, Hinoshita F.
Division of Nephrology, International Medical Center of Japan, Tokyo, Japan.
This is about a 38-yr old woman with massive proteinuria and severe
obesity...and urinary protein more than 3.5 g/day, BMI 38.7 at admission
with IgA nephropathy.
Instead of the usual steroid approach - they used a diet to reduce
obesity - and exercise - to reduce the urinary protein to 0.18g/day.
Also see:
J Nutr. 2004 Jun;134(6):1353-61.
Jia Q, Shi Y, Bennink MB, Pestka JJ.
Docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid (from Fish) but not
alpha-linolenic acid (from flax seed), suppress deoxynivalenol-induced
experimental IgA nephropathy in mice.
Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48824, USA.
and:
Clin Nephrol. 1986 Aug;26(2):72-82.
Mediterranean diet and primary IgA nephropathy.
Coppo R, Basolo B, Rollino C, Roccatello D, Martina G, Amore A,
Bongiorno G, Piccoli G.
Whatever way you look at it - the kidney issues improve on good animal
protein and anti-inflamamtory amino acids, and get worse on grain/plant
protein and inflammatory flax type amino acids.
I did try to find your 50 year old research in the National Library of
Medicine - but the on-line refs only go back to 1983, and the 1986 one
on the subject that I found was showing the benefits of good animal
protein for kidney health, and the detriment of plant protein with high
carbs, even in IgA nephropathy - a tricky disease being immune mediated,
with poor liver clearance of "toxins" after meals.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
studies on cats or any other animals.
With respect - why do you say this?
In fact, it's actually quite usual for research on kidneys (and a lot of
other things) to be done in dogs or cats, and extrapolated to humans.
They just do not like to do it on humans directly - gee why I wonder:-)
>
I disagree, based on good research:-))
What wears them out is our poor quality protein eaten, such as soy
protein, and the other factor is unrelated to [protein and related to
inflamamtory food effects - especially from starches and sugars as in
grains and dairy.
>
Kidneys indeed have almost 75% reserve capacity by some estimates - but
why not keep them healthy anyway:-)
burden on the kidneys
Sorry but I see no way to show this.
Lowering meat increases the burden on the kidneys.
Milk I'll agree with - it's inflamamtory - but beef is anti-inflammtory
and most beneficial:-)
This is proved again - directly - in more modern studies on what's
anti-inflamamtory.
inflammation. (I don't recall eggs being a problem.)
You can't have it both ways:-))
Eggs and meat BOTH have arachidonic acid as the major source of fatty
acid. It IS somewhat inflammatory - but it is also necessary for several
functions.
It's necessary to ALSO get anti-inflammatory fatty acids from fish
and extra virgin olive oil in the diet, to balance the arachidonic acid.
Fish oil has eicosapentaenoic acid and docosaheaenoic acid - both
activated and strongly anti-inflammtory../. and EV oliveol has omega-9
fatty acid, also very strongly anti-inflammatory.'
Inflammation-wise - the net total is what counts. If one eats all
inflamamtory foods, the body will suffer (not just the kidneys) and if
one eats more anti-inflamamtory foods than infalammatory ones, the body
will be a LOT healthier.
years ago when I was researching IgA Nephropathy. Please don't ask for
a citation, because it's on a very old computer that doesn't talk to
this one.>>
Sorry but it is necessary to have a real research paper behind anything
that supposedly contradicts (from 50 yrs ago) what so many modern
research papers have shown convincingly, with superior equipment,
background knowledge and study design.
For example, just this month, there is new research showing the
involvement of transcription factor C-Jun, such that activation of c-Jun
is now thought to be involved in the regulation of inflammation and/or
fibrosis in human renal disease in diabetic nephropathy, focal
glomerulosclerosis, hypertension, IgA nephropathy, membranous
glomerulopathy, minimal change disease, membranoproliferative
glomerulonephritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, acute rejection, and
Wegener's granulomatosis.
Also see:
Nippon Jinzo Gakkai Shi. 2006;48(7):675-9. [An IgA nephropathy case with
highly reduced urinary protein concomitant with reduced obesity]
[Article in Japanese]
Nakamura T, Fujikura Y, Suga N, Hatazoe K, Hinoshita F.
Division of Nephrology, International Medical Center of Japan, Tokyo, Japan.
This is about a 38-yr old woman with massive proteinuria and severe
obesity...and urinary protein more than 3.5 g/day, BMI 38.7 at admission
with IgA nephropathy.
Instead of the usual steroid approach - they used a diet to reduce
obesity - and exercise - to reduce the urinary protein to 0.18g/day.
Also see:
J Nutr. 2004 Jun;134(6):1353-61.
Jia Q, Shi Y, Bennink MB, Pestka JJ.
Docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid (from Fish) but not
alpha-linolenic acid (from flax seed), suppress deoxynivalenol-induced
experimental IgA nephropathy in mice.
Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48824, USA.
and:
Clin Nephrol. 1986 Aug;26(2):72-82.
Mediterranean diet and primary IgA nephropathy.
Coppo R, Basolo B, Rollino C, Roccatello D, Martina G, Amore A,
Bongiorno G, Piccoli G.
Whatever way you look at it - the kidney issues improve on good animal
protein and anti-inflamamtory amino acids, and get worse on grain/plant
protein and inflammatory flax type amino acids.
I did try to find your 50 year old research in the National Library of
Medicine - but the on-line refs only go back to 1983, and the 1986 one
on the subject that I found was showing the benefits of good animal
protein for kidney health, and the detriment of plant protein with high
carbs, even in IgA nephropathy - a tricky disease being immune mediated,
with poor liver clearance of "toxins" after meals.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Peter Boehm
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
Hi Robyn !
I tried to find something about Inuit dying from bleeding but did´t succeed. Where can I find something?
Ok, they died young, but most hunter tribes do so.
I found the number of 45 y. life expectancy, which is comparable to some African states today.
Dont get me wrong- I do not say eating only meat is healthy. but there are adaptations to extreme climates and food.
you are very right saying that every preparation changes the chemical structure of food and we just dont know how this alters our heath or whether it make any difference at all.
Bests
Peter
Robyn schrieb:
I tried to find something about Inuit dying from bleeding but did´t succeed. Where can I find something?
Ok, they died young, but most hunter tribes do so.
I found the number of 45 y. life expectancy, which is comparable to some African states today.
Dont get me wrong- I do not say eating only meat is healthy. but there are adaptations to extreme climates and food.
you are very right saying that every preparation changes the chemical structure of food and we just dont know how this alters our heath or whether it make any difference at all.
Bests
Peter
Robyn schrieb:
-
Peter Boehm
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
Hi Irene!
Is there really a good reason why I should not eat this great Soy-Pudding anymore?
I absolutely understand why not to feed soy to cats, but humans ate fabaceae for a long time.
bests
Peter
Irene de Villiers schrieb:
Is there really a good reason why I should not eat this great Soy-Pudding anymore?
I absolutely understand why not to feed soy to cats, but humans ate fabaceae for a long time.
bests
Peter
Irene de Villiers schrieb:
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
some of you may recall that a very few yrs ago there
was a group of nutritionists assembled to review the
standard food pyramid. as i recall, they pretty much
agreed to make significant changes, including removing
sugar and moving grains to a minimal portion. the food
lobbies, especially the sugar industry, lobbied heavily
and the recommendations were altered to promote things
that were clearly known to cause poor health.
so while people may argue about different diets, i have
to again go back to the question of who profits. our
bodies have been so manipulated by poor nutrition and
ideas from food corporations, that it is hard to find
ones own instinctual needs to guide us. and then there
is the basic issue of access to good quality fresh food.
and lastly is the issue of finding the time and energy
to shop for fresh food and prepare it in our hectice and
overloaded lives.
in alaska and other such cold climates, the heavy fat
diet is necessary for survival. i had met a woman once
who was in the armed services stationed in alaska. she
was a pretty small woman so i listened to her when she
said that they were told to eat about 8000 calories a day
in the winter there (i don't know what it is now). just
standing in that freezing weather burned about 5000 calories
a day in order to survive. interesting perspective! so the
eskimos do the same for survival: the environment dictates the need.
as for the eskimos: i would also look to the issue of
stress in their lives. living in such extreme climate
is definitely a major stress factor. sweden, with its
great social programs and attitudes had the highest
suicide rate at one point due to the lack of light so
much of the year. the eskimos live in similar lightless
environment contrasted with too much light in summer months.
so even when there is some 'research' i think it needs to be put into
total context and questioned.
tanya
was a group of nutritionists assembled to review the
standard food pyramid. as i recall, they pretty much
agreed to make significant changes, including removing
sugar and moving grains to a minimal portion. the food
lobbies, especially the sugar industry, lobbied heavily
and the recommendations were altered to promote things
that were clearly known to cause poor health.
so while people may argue about different diets, i have
to again go back to the question of who profits. our
bodies have been so manipulated by poor nutrition and
ideas from food corporations, that it is hard to find
ones own instinctual needs to guide us. and then there
is the basic issue of access to good quality fresh food.
and lastly is the issue of finding the time and energy
to shop for fresh food and prepare it in our hectice and
overloaded lives.
in alaska and other such cold climates, the heavy fat
diet is necessary for survival. i had met a woman once
who was in the armed services stationed in alaska. she
was a pretty small woman so i listened to her when she
said that they were told to eat about 8000 calories a day
in the winter there (i don't know what it is now). just
standing in that freezing weather burned about 5000 calories
a day in order to survive. interesting perspective! so the
eskimos do the same for survival: the environment dictates the need.
as for the eskimos: i would also look to the issue of
stress in their lives. living in such extreme climate
is definitely a major stress factor. sweden, with its
great social programs and attitudes had the highest
suicide rate at one point due to the lack of light so
much of the year. the eskimos live in similar lightless
environment contrasted with too much light in summer months.
so even when there is some 'research' i think it needs to be put into
total context and questioned.
tanya
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit
"Many Inuit consider Eskimo to be pejorative because it originated with non-Inuit and is widely believed to mean "eater of raw meat." However, linguists now believe the term is derived from an Ojibwa word meaning "to net snowshoes."[1] "
Please use INUIT
Regards
Soroush
"Many Inuit consider Eskimo to be pejorative because it originated with non-Inuit and is widely believed to mean "eater of raw meat." However, linguists now believe the term is derived from an Ojibwa word meaning "to net snowshoes."[1] "
Please use INUIT
Regards
Soroush
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
-
Gaby Rottler
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: High carbohydrate foods.
Hi Peter,
not an easy topic - as nutrition is only one of the factors contributing
to longevity /life expectancy.
some info about life expectancy of Inuit:
http://www.statgreen.gl/english/publ/ye ... b24-1.html
in
http://www.statgreen.gl/english/publ/ye ... hap24.html
A book was written:
The Circumpolar Inuit: Health of A Population in Transition
Review:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/318/7176/133
Some more info:
http://www.itk.ca/media/backgrounder-health.php
General information in German:
Dissertation
Tobias Lechler: Die Ernährung als Einflussfaktor auf die Evolution des
Menschen (Diss.)
http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?i ... &dok_ext=p
df&filename=962820490.pdf
oder
http://tinyurl.com/yr3myb
Just tons of info!
Best,
Gaby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler
Germany
rottler@curantur.de
http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
not an easy topic - as nutrition is only one of the factors contributing
to longevity /life expectancy.
some info about life expectancy of Inuit:
http://www.statgreen.gl/english/publ/ye ... b24-1.html
in
http://www.statgreen.gl/english/publ/ye ... hap24.html
A book was written:
The Circumpolar Inuit: Health of A Population in Transition
Review:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/318/7176/133
Some more info:
http://www.itk.ca/media/backgrounder-health.php
General information in German:
Dissertation
Tobias Lechler: Die Ernährung als Einflussfaktor auf die Evolution des
Menschen (Diss.)
http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?i ... &dok_ext=p
df&filename=962820490.pdf
oder
http://tinyurl.com/yr3myb
Just tons of info!
Best,
Gaby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler
Germany
rottler@curantur.de
http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
