Hom Vets, Vethoms and FIP - was Hom Vets

[Irene de Villiers]

Rosemary C Hyde PhD wrote:
Dear Rosemary,
I probably do not need to answer - I've sent so many posts on FIP:-))
But just in case, here's info for everyone that may be good to know:

First though - It's a passion of mine to try to reduce feline suffering
from FIP so I accept two cases a week - I'm not a vet, I'm a veterinary
homeopath, and I consult by email - so the client is doing all the
treating and nursing, and buying any remedies, and I provide advice and
suggestions.

I'll answer Soroush here too:
I'm a veterinary homeopath, not a veterinarian and I help my clients
treat their animals, by email. This approach is legal here in the state
of WA. (WA state has affirmed it specifically in my case that the way I
use my training is appropriate for local law.
I have seen only two dozen or so cats with FIP "in person". That was
during my years working from Medical Lake vet clinic near here, where I
was vet's assistant and a Bach remedy consultant.
I have however helped owners of many more cats with FIP by email as
a veterinary homeopath, for two cases a week on average since Jan 2003.
(That was when I first had success with FIP after I left the clinic to
work on my own; the clinic had zero success which is typical.)

The following may be useful to anyone who has a cat or has a client with
a cat:

There are three forms of FIP:
"Effusive" is evidenced by a bloated abdomen and/or thorax, filled
with fluid, and is usually the trickiest to manage due to its rater of
progress. In effusive FIP the effusion is yellow, sticky and high
protein, and its source is leaky blood vessels.
"Dry FIP" cats show emaciation and inappetance, liver or other organ
damage.
"Neurological FIP" has the nervous system attacked first (FIP attacks
everything eventually, it's a matter of what order it occurs per case)
and one typically sees seizures of some kind, or at least tremors, for
example eye pendulum seizures and paralysis follows in some cases -
violent seizure in others.

One form can lead into another very quickly and unexpectedly, with
extreme overnight changes in symptoms. It's quite a daunting disease.
Common factors: High globulin in the blood, usually low albumin,
ravenous appetite followed by no appetite and muscle marasmus and
starvation as the organs of digestion break down. The disease involves
(in all cases) damage to the skewed immune system via a FIPV virus,
resulting in antibodies being made against the cat - and which thus
destroy the cat.

Standard vet treatment is the worst possible approach - steroids
and antibiotics, steroids being an almost certain death sentence, even
if you later substitute homeopathy. ANY toxin speeds the disease -
including from antibiotic or from food that contains feline toxins
(alfalfa, garlic, yucca, rosemary) or fruit and veg (for which cats are
not designed).

I have frequently asked on forums of homeopaths - and ask again here! -
(and have asked among my students at BIH) - for others to join me in
trying to work with this illness.

So far no takers. On the allopathic side the main researcher is perhaps
veterinarian Dr Dianne Addie. We have opposed views on approach as she
believes in steroids and interferon and on trying to remove the raw
material from the environment (an impossibility to remove gut corona and
cruel to the cats to use the proposed approach IMO), but we are in
agreement on cause of FIP - which is stresses such as:
* chemical stress (vaccines and drugs mainly),
* physical stress (young kitten spay surgery for example),
* nutrition stress (toxins in most commercial cat foods),
* emotional stress (eg weaning before 3 months, caging a feral cat in a
shelter, and other issues that affect the cat's essential need to feel
secure, like being constantly bullied by another cat/animal or moving
house.)
* or any combination - usually three or more stressors in a short period
will trigger the mutation to FIP virus in a cat with a skewed immune
system. Each cat mutates their own FIP - they do not get it from a cat
who has it.
The most usual trigger cause in a young kitten or young cat is
multi-valent vaccines, vaccination prior to 3 months, repeated vaccines
for the same thing, and drugs to handle the vaccinosis mistaken for
infections.

If this email tells even one person a little about how to avoid FIP, it
will be well worth it's weight in words:-)
If it finds me another homeopath to work on FIP - well, that would be
wonderful!

Have a great day.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Kerry]

Looking at the symptoms quoted here it seems that everything bar the
kitchen sink can be included under the label of FIP. Perhaps the reason
that no vet homs put there hand to treating FIP, is because all the
symptoms quoted are the sorts of symptoms that vet homs in the US are
dealing with on a daily basis: damaged immune systems from vaccines
(especially the rabies vaccine) and dry food. Homeopathy treats a
group of symptoms not a disease label. Most vets hom are not just
treating two cases a week of animals with damaged immune systems they
are treating many animals every day. Perhaps Irene the reason you are
having to turn to more than one remedy is because you lack experience
due to dealing with insufficient cases.

Kerry

I
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2003.
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it

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[Kathy]

FIP is caused by a coronavirus and testing can be done to diagnose it.
Feline infectious peritonitis (FIP) is a disease caused by a coronavirus
infection. The KELA, ELISA, IFA, and virus-neutralization tests detect the
presence of coronavirus antibodies in a cat. It is a relatively uncommon
disease in the general cat population, probably affecting fewer than one
percent of the cats brought to a veterinarian's office for treatment. That
thankfully can account for only 2 per week which is too many. This is quoted
from http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fip.html Kathy

Kathleen Ramsey M.C.S. D.D.
Naturopath, Flower Essence Practitioner, Master Herbalist

[Kerry]

Homeopathy doesn't treat a disease label it treats the individual with a
disease and each individual reacts differently. The symptoms that are
being listed as FIP are symptoms that can be seen in many immune damaged
animals. You have causations that are common to immune damaged animals
and disease in general: vaccine, stress, etc. Vets homs are dealing
with animals with badly damaged immune systems all the time and are
doing so by looking at the individual and treating according to that
individuals stressors and aetiology.

Kerry
coronavirus
the
uncommon
one
That
quoted

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[Kathy]

I guess I did not understand your email. I am aware what homeopathy treats but I don’t understand what you are commenting on. There are many SX to treat? And if you have a diagnosis you certainly can start there right? Kathy
Kathleen Ramsey M.C.S. D.D.

Naturopath, Flower Essence Practitioner, Master Herbalist

Owner - 1-866-404-7111

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From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kerry
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:52 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Minutus] Hom Vets, Vethoms and FIP - was Hom Vets
Homeopathy doesn't treat a disease label it treats the individual with a
disease and each individual reacts differently. The symptoms that are
being listed as FIP are symptoms that can be seen in many immune damaged
animals. You have causations that are common to immune damaged animals
and disease in general: vaccine, stress, etc. Vets homs are dealing
with animals with badly damaged immune systems all the time and are
doing so by looking at the individual and treating according to that
individuals stressors and aetiology.

Kerry

coronavirus
the
uncommon
one
That
quoted
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24/08/2007 14:59

[Irene de Villiers]

kerry wrote:

Sorry it looks that way - it's not really so, there are complex
commonalities or at least subgroups of same - but the individual cases
are certainly different enough to need proper individual repertorizing.
Even if they looked the same however, I'd select a remedy individually.
No matter how much intuition and experience makes a remedy "look"
obvious - I still repertorize.
Well let's see. The local vet clinic where I worked is typical of a
large one. There were about 3000 cats and dogs on the books when I left
in 1999 and the vet there had been one there for 25 years. The total
number of cases of FIP seen in his years there increased each year, and
the last year I was there, it was maybe 6 cases, all euthanised
immediately upon diagnosis.
The more recent approach of vets country-wide is to give steroids and
antibiotics - which makes the cat LOOK better for a day or more so as to
give the client time to say goodbye before euthanasia. the only thing
that varies is the time the vet predicts the cat will last after the
steroids. That seems to vary from a day or to to 4 months. The former is
closer to the usual result.

So this describes accurately, the vets' experience with FIP in USA.
It's not exactly "experience" other than killing the cat. Lots of
experience with euthanasia?
Which ios why I approach the cleitn with "When FIP is suspected.......
and go on to explain how homeopathy needsd a matched remedy to the
symptoms regardless of diagnosis. In FIp this is also very relevant as
FIP is very often underdiagnosed and it is also misdiagnosed - though
underdiagnosed is more the true picture. Vets have poor diagnostics for
FIP and only recognize it when it is terminal.
I disagree. Most vethoms though they treat many cases of animals a day -
do so locally not by email - so they have no way to see two FIP cases a
week. They do not exist. It's on the increase annually as more and more
kitten damage is standard at shelters and by breeders, but it's
currently still a rare disease.

It is only because I am known for being a cat specialist and FIP
person within that - that people come to me by email for help when
desperate - after the vet has diagnosed terminal FIP. I'd LIKE another
vethom to work with it by email - but I've had no takers. I get far more
requests than I can handle and those cat owners deserve some help!!!
So the reason I see a lot is that my client base is worldwide not just
local.
Well let's see - average 2 per week is roughly one hundred per year -
Starting Jan 2003, that's over 430 cases of experience. While it's STILL
true that no two cases are the same - how many do you think is
"sufficient" cases to be considered "experience in a rare disease"?

Also it is not that I HAVE to turn to more than one remedy with FIP, I
only ever use ONE simillimum to heal, as did Hahnemann - not more.
What I use constitutional-type remedy for (in the few FIP cases where
I add it) is not to heal - it's to support temporarily - like a crutch.
As such it buys time in terminal cases, which is what I need in FIP.

I seldom use it in other illnesses (only if they too are terminal and
I need to buy time) but FIP is uniquely fast in its progress and in its
late diagnosis.
Do not twist this into something it's not!
It has nothing to do with remedy selection for healing - that follows
the Organon, as I have said all along.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

Kathy wrote:

This is a common area of misunderstanding however as you are talking
about two separate corona viruses.

The one for which tests are commonly available and used, is an enteric
corona virus. It does not cause FIP, it is ubiquitous in cats and no cat
is without it. However the "titer" of antibody to it is erroneously used
as an indicator of FIP disease. The fact is that a cat can have a low
titer and have FIP disease or a high titer and no disease. It's about as
useful in diagnosis as counting fleas on the next door cat, in other words.

Enteric corona in a cat of poor health, can cause gastro-enteritis
type symptoms, but it is not FIP disease. Correct term for THIS corona
virus is FECoV for Feline corona virus or Feline Enteric Corona Virus.

FIPV is a separate virus = Feline Infections Peritonitis virus. It is
also a corona virus, but there is no FIP disease unless there is FIPV,
not just FECoV. If the right stressors are present AND the immune system
is skewed to Th-2 - then FIPV can mutate into existence and cause
disease. [I would not be surprised if it mutates often but fails to
cause disease in cats with a non-skewed immune system.]
To mutate to FIP it uses the FECoV viral corona as raw material -
which then mutates into FIPV and initiates the FIP disease (at least in
susceptible cats).

Tests have looked for corona virus (any corona virus antibody if ELISA
and any coronavirus if PCR). I don't know anywhere still using IFA
tests, and I don't know anywhere using KELA for FIP.
However FIP-7B-PCR has ben available since 1994 and FIP-7B-ELISA
has been available since 1998. These look specifically for the 7B gene
which occurs in some FIP virus species/clades, but not in enteric
corona. There's at least one other form of FIP which has a 2B gene, so
the test is not definitive. However no enteric corona has 7B so if a
high titer of antibody to 7B is found (by ELISA to it) - or 7B itself is
found by PCR - then there is a reasonable chance that FIP disease is
present as opposed to just corona virus. So FIP-7B-ELISa is the best
current FIP test, and "corona tests" still called "FIP tests" are
total;l;y misleading.
No, the 2 per week is how many I can accept due to my own health
challenges. I get many requests daily by email - you might have
forgotten that I have a world client base, not a local one. However the
rte at which FIP is increasing is alarming - and is quite understandable
given the complete misunderstanding about the stressors that cause it -
which are now "standard care" to vets and breeders.

This is quoted

It was out of date in 2002 when it was written. (Another reason FIP is
such a misunderstood disease.)
You need to look at the FIP research in the National Library of
Medicine, and at the work of those who deal with it daily.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Kathy]

Thanks I will look there everything else I have looked at is not very promising. Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Irene de Villiers
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:35 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Hom Vets, Vethoms and FIP - was Hom Vets
Kathy wrote:

This is a common area of misunderstanding however as you are talking
about two separate corona viruses.

The one for which tests are commonly available and used, is an enteric
corona virus. It does not cause FIP, it is ubiquitous in cats and no cat
is without it. However the "titer" of antibody to it is erroneously used
as an indicator of FIP disease. The fact is that a cat can have a low
titer and have FIP disease or a high titer and no disease. It's about as
useful in diagnosis as counting fleas on the next door cat, in other words.

Enteric corona in a cat of poor health, can cause gastro-enteritis
type symptoms, but it is not FIP disease. Correct term for THIS corona
virus is FECoV for Feline corona virus or Feline Enteric Corona Virus.

FIPV is a separate virus = Feline Infections Peritonitis virus. It is
also a corona virus, but there is no FIP disease unless there is FIPV,
not just FECoV. If the right stressors are present AND the immune system
is skewed to Th-2 - then FIPV can mutate into existence and cause
disease. [I would not be surprised if it mutates often but fails to
cause disease in cats with a non-skewed immune system.]
To mutate to FIP it uses the FECoV viral corona as raw material -
which then mutates into FIPV and initiates the FIP disease (at least in
susceptible cats).

Tests have looked for corona virus (any corona virus antibody if ELISA
and any coronavirus if PCR). I don't know anywhere still using IFA
tests, and I don't know anywhere using KELA for FIP.
However FIP-7B-PCR has ben available since 1994 and FIP-7B-ELISA
has been available since 1998. These look specifically for the 7B gene
which occurs in some FIP virus species/clades, but not in enteric
corona. There's at least one other form of FIP which has a 2B gene, so
the test is not definitive. However no enteric corona has 7B so if a
high titer of antibody to 7B is found (by ELISA to it) - or 7B itself is
found by PCR - then there is a reasonable chance that FIP disease is
present as opposed to just corona virus. So FIP-7B-ELISa is the best
current FIP test, and "corona tests" still called "FIP tests" are
total;l;y misleading.
No, the 2 per week is how many I can accept due to my own health
challenges. I get many requests daily by email - you might have
forgotten that I have a world client base, not a local one. However the
rte at which FIP is increasing is alarming - and is quite understandable
given the complete misunderstanding about the stressors that cause it -
which are now "standard care" to vets and breeders.

This is quoted

It was out of date in 2002 when it was written. (Another reason FIP is
such a misunderstood disease.)
You need to look at the FIP research in the National Library of
Medicine, and at the work of those who deal with it daily.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Kerry]

I am getting at the fact that every disease is individual to the person and homeopathy doesn’t treat a label. The vast majority of animals within the US are immune damaged and vet homs are treating them all the time. The symptoms being displayed in FIP cases are symptoms that are present in many immune damaged animals regardless of the label stuck on the disease. Irene seems to think that she is unique in treating immune damaged animals when in fact they are the norm in the US and true homeopaths that follow Hahnemann’s teachings do so using Hahnemann’s methods and do so every day of the week.
Kerry

[Kerry]

>
There are commonalities to every disease and all vets homs should be repertorising and treating individually. Many of these symptoms quoted are common to all immune damaged animals; vet homs in the US are dealing with immune damaged animals every day.
When FELV and FIV first came around the vets answer was to kill them straight away and in fact some vets still have this attitude. When FELV and FIV first came around everything and anything was grouped under the disease label, when again we are dealing with immune compromised animals and there is no reason that these animals can't live for years and years with proper treatment. I have an FELV cat that was diagnosed ten years ago and it is still here and still healthy.
The standard vet does not want to put his hand up and admit that they are basically killing people's animals by promoting lousy dry food, vaccines and suppressive drugs. They want a label and the latest one is FIP.
I am sorry be we aren't comparing the brain dead attitude of standard vets, we are looking at homeopathy treating immune compromised animals! Vet homs don't put a label on a disease and condemn an animal on it, they treat the individual with an appropriate remedy.
So the cases you are treating are not definite FIP but suspected? If it is under diagnosed how do you know that other vet homs aren't treating cases that never progress fully due to them finding the simillimum quickly?
No, there are vet homs out there treating many animals by email and I am surprised that you are not aware of that fact. There are vet homs in the US who are treating animals world wide because people are finding it impossible to find a vet hom who uses Hahnemann's system and not pseudo homeopathy.
You are not the only one with a world wide base of clients! I am sorry Irene but you are not unique.
Immune compromised animals are not rare!! They are the norm in the US and vets homs are dealing with them all the time! They do not treat a disease label, they treat the individual who manifests THEIR disease due to their own stressors, constitution, temperament, etc and each one will manifest them slightly differently.
I don't believe that I am twisting this into something that it isn't but I do believe that you are twisting this issue. You are using immune compromised animals as an excuse to justify giving combos or multiple remedies - whatever you wish to call it - when in fact vet homs are dealing with immune compromised animals all the time, including by email world wide, and are doing so by following Hahnemann's teachings.
Kerry

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