WAS: the combos conversation - MM Virosum

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Peter

You wrote to Irene

(3) that, since the outcome of the repertorisation process suggests more than one remedy, more than one remedy may be indicated at a time;

Actually, it is interesting that you say that which is of course not correct!

Sometimes during repertorisation, one remedy comes through very clearly - then you check the MM with the patient and there is a good fit and you do well.

At other times, one is left with a choice of a few remedies - as you mention above - all of which are present in all the rubrics selected to represent the case of the patient.

This is where case I forwarded from Dr Nader Moradi a few days ago demonstrated the advantage of using MM Virosum. Because when you bring info from MMV through to the set of remedies shown after repertorisation, they you will find ONE remedy coming through strongly which goes on to cure.

This is what makes Dr Shahrdar's work an absolute break through and I strongly recommend that colleagues familiarise themselves with it.

To refresh yourselves, please see
http://www.minutus.org/library/article_read.asp?id=444

So by using this method, the idea of using combos becomes redundant.

Rgds
Soroush

[Peter Boehm]

Dear Soroush!

do you mix Peter and John?

I didn´t participate in this thread.

Peter
Finrod schrieb:

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

So I did - my humble apologies.

Rgds
Soroush

[Irene de Villiers]

Finrod wrote:
more than one remedy, more than one remedy may be indicated at a time;

Oh dear - lots of misconception an confusion - is Mercury retrograde or
some such?

It was John Harvey who wrote that to me (not Peter) and it is VERY far
from anything I believe.

This was in response to an email where I explained that a simillimum is
used for the disease - properly chosen by repertorizing (which includes
a lot of steps, not just using a repertory).
I also said that I "currently" repertorize to find a constitutional-type
remedy in some cases for example terminal FIP cases. It's a new area and
the repertories are not geared to this. They lack physical traits of
constitutional type for example.

However this constitutional-type repertorizing is done completely
separately from the simillimum repertorizing as the disease makes use of
the symptoms that are not usual for the individual. WE hopefully all
know how to repertorize that - all the way through the MM selection.
By contrast, constitutional-type includes mostly static characteristics
that are part of that person's constitutional type so must be planned
with a different selection of symptoms hence rubrics hence remedy short
list hence materia medica detail.... It may include historical evidence
of trends in ill health including the current illness as *part* of the
analysis - but it's not about the current disease as such - it's about
finding the (permanent) constitutional type including much broader
aspects and features permanently associated with the individual as
opposed to mainly the current illness and its initiation/cause.

It was never my suggestion to use more than one remedy selection in one
repertorizing process to match one disease picture.

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Irene

I have already apologised for the error of addressing to Peter in place of John.

However, the point that I was trying to make is that in repertorisation or during case taking, one sees different remedy pictures - apart from the fact that this could be due to poor MM knowledge, this is then used as justification for those who are pro COMBOs.

What I was trying to input is that if you then utilise the information based on MMV, the choice of remedy becomes clear and the remedy selected goes on to cure.

DID you READ the link I sent?

Rgds
Soroush

[Irene de Villiers]

Finrod wrote:
place of John.

Thanks Soroush, I saw that after I wrote mine. the internet is an
imperfect system:-)

>

Ah - I missed that point - I agree one does not want to make that error.

>

Yes I agree.
I was just upset that John had so badly misinterpreted my views. I guess
I tend to get a bit "bent out of shape" when my views are reported
opposite to the real ones:-)))
Not yet - I actually missed that you had a link, sorry.
(It has been a rough week here, not much discretionary time.)

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

Finrod wrote:

Hi Soroush,
It's a nice case, but I think you may have assumed I would consider
combos - and I do not like that impression hanging about! (ref your
prior email, re John's misinterpretation of my views). I do not use
combos. Combos have no relationship to the case at hand in my view and
are thus worthless in my view - or damaging.

What I do sometimes use is a constitutioal-type remedy. This - like
nutrition - is a totally separate concept from the prescribing for
illness which is as your above references article suggests towards a
simillimum.

It is also a completely separate matter from any kind of "combo".
There is no combining of remedies or simultaneous dosing of remedies.

The constitutional-type is something that is with an individual
throughout life - part of them - like long legs and blue eyes and a
predisposition to pneumonia (whether or not they actually ever get it)
for example - and this for an individual is defined by characteristics
which correspond with a specific remedy picture.
This is what I consider a "constitutional-type remedy". It has in my
experience great usefulness as an ADJUNCT to the main process of
homeopathy - just as nutrition and crutches help a broken leg.
The constitutional-type remedy is dosed according to separate
approach and principles than simillimum - at separate times - altogether
a separate approach to do with support of that constitution. It is not
dosed like simillimum which might involve (in a low life force case)
gradual increasing potency of remedy as is sometimes needed to build up
a simillimum in a weak-life-force individual to the potency at which it
finally exceeds the energy of the disease and overcomes the disease.

The constitutional-type remedy is *not* of that type and it is more
likely to need dosing in decreasing frequency and usage during the
illness - supporting at the start, and not being so necessary towards
the end of healing - much like a pair of crutches while one treats a leg
break with homeopathy. It is not to be confused with the simillimum in
any way. It is also not generally an essential aspect of the case at
all either - it may well help most cases - but I see it as essential to
save life, only in weak life force terminal cases where the life force
would otherwise be too weak to recover by simillimum alone - especially
at the start of a case before the simillimum has time to effect much change.

So there is no "combo" involved - merely acceptance of the principle
of a constitutional-type and its specific remedy that matches a specific
individual - which can be supportive (not healing but supportive) - and
which is found by a modified version of selection method using rubrics
and MM - but only using the features pertaining to permanent features of
the individual - not to features of mistunement due to illness that
match the simillimum remedy.

So to me it is essential to differentiate polypharmacy/combos and the
use of a supportive MATCHING constitutional-type remedy for support
during healing-by-single-simillimum.

The healing is done by simillimum - one simillimum only.

That is my experience with the terminal cases of extremely weak life
force that I start with in FIP cases, and which others find hopeless.
As I said inuitially in this conversation - they are sometimes hopeless
for me too - but I get a far better success rate with
constitutional-type support of low life force while I nudge the
simillimum up the potency scale.
I do hope this dispels the idea that I have a combo approach or a lack
of use of materia medica in selecting simillimum. Those things are
(should be) basic to any homeopath, and it is anathema to me to suggest
otherwise:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Soroush Ebrahimi]

Dear Irene

I had made no such assumptions! My point pure and simple was that with MMV, there is no confusion when lots of remedy seem to fit the main rubrics chosen for the case and therefore no deemed necessity of combos.

I am not sure about the 'constitutional remedy' being a life long thing.

There are many cases which are layered - a bit like an onion that is well past its 'use-by-date'.

You find a crinkled outer skin, followed by a soft brown leaf (perhaps with signs of bacterial growth), may be a few leaves that look healthy, then one or more leaves that have gone brown with an unpleasant smell, and finally we get to the core which may show some more 'healthy leaves and a green shoot either ready to sprout or already sprouted.

The sicker the patient is miasmatically, the more we see this type of patient. This where the patient's symptom picture changes as time passes and remedies do their lot. This is very common in Europe and less so in rural areas of the world where people are in essence reasonably healthy and the symptoms they show are bit as if you have a walking materia medica before you.

Rgds
Soroush

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Soroush,
I'd like to throw thoughts on this, and hope I won't misrepresent
Irene's or others' ideas in doing so--and trust I'll be corrected if I
do!

I think you may have missed some of Irene's past descriptions of what
she means by "constitutional remedy"--it is different from the common
usage, but I think much closer to Eizayaga's usage--tho she sees a much
broader range of possible remedies for that "level" than he did!

Your explanation fits the common usage of the word--or at least what
was common among the circle that *I* learned it in; which might also be
called (e.g. in Eizayaga's terminology) the functional and/or
presenting remedy state. When I was going thru homeopathy training and
(early years of) treatment, the term "constitutional remedy" was simply
used to contrast with "acute remedy", the describe the "best indicated
remedy" according to the patient's presenting picture--and I *think*
that is the way you are describing it?

But (confusingly--here I am partly musing to myself) others use the
term to mean different things... E.g. the "lifetime remedy" usage (who
is that? Mangialavore? Klein? I'm not sure.) Irene (and Eizayaga,
and some others) uses the term "constitutional remedy" to mean the
remedy that addresses (can help to balance) the person's inborn
characteristics. Some homeopaths have said that those inborn and
*non-pathological* traits (e.g. "the best that you can be" re build,
size, hair/eye color, and overall body construction) are not relevant
for prescribing; others (including some of the "old masters") have said
that certain remedies have more "affinity" for people with certain
non-pathological/inborn characteristics; and others, e.g. Irene and
Eizayaga (good company! ) are describing the inborn /
non-pathological / unchangeable layer as fertile ground for a different
type of prescribing, useful under different circumstances from what we
have usually done.

I don't know (tho someone here must?) whether Eizayaga also at times
gave the (by his definition) "constitutional" remedy concurrently with
a (again by his definition) functional or lesional one; but I've had it
in my mind that he would do this prescribing after the lesional and/or
functional levels had been cured, as a way of further enhancing the
person's health, and then as a preventative of possible future
troubles.

I'm especially intrigued that Irene has come to this simply thru a long
process of observation, on numerous generations of cats and
particularly severe diseases! (And I would imagine that Eizayaga's
observations came about similarly.) To my mind that is part of the
real "gold" to be mined from clinical experience, and I am really
hoping Irene gets that book written, and articles along the way!!