Thanks for that and I have already tried to use this document when trying to sort the case. I have corresponded with and even met Suriya when I was in Malaysia last year. Her and her husband met my husband and I and we spent the day together. I have actually sent her the case but she has not responded as yet. She maybe is away or changed her email address .
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
Bad menses pain
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Bad menses pain
eternalhealth@optusnet.com.au wrote:
I have below as I am busy in clinic>
I see what you wrote but you did not address the concerns I mentioned,
namely that there be appropriate *ratios* of omega-6 to omega-3 and that
a vegetarian diet is usually NOT appropriate to do this nor to do a host
of other things necessary to proper health, with balanced nutrients.
We tend to get far too many omega-6 fatty acids and to have a huge
deficit of the omega-3s that are anti-inflammatory (EPA and DHA only -
as the eicosanoids from alpha linolenic acid have a net inflammatory
effect).
fatty acids (PUFAs) that cannot be made in the body - linoleic acid and
alpha-linolenic acid. They must be provided by diet. In the body both
can be converted to other PUFAs such as arachidonic acid, or
eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
Except that this is not really true. The human body can convert VERY
limited amounts of EPA and DHA from linolenic acid, there is a mechanism
to prevent more conversion, and it is thus appropriate to get it from
fiah or a fish oil supplement. Vegetarians often don't do that - and
there is NO plant source of these two ANTI-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids.
The more inflammatory fatty acids eaten, the more anti-inflammatory
ones must ALSO be eaten to obtain a net non-inflammatory cell state.
With imbalance, the entire body is in an inflammatory state at the cell
level, and that's why I advocated against sunflower oil.
The cell memebranes are indeed the key to health here from fatty acids -
but the membrane permeability (so as to exclude toxins and include
nutrients) is dependent on its flexibility - and that in turn is helped
by anti-inflammatory eicosanoids from EPA and DHA - and is hindered by
any excess of omega-6 or of the inflammatory omega-3, linolenic acid.
It is also adversely affected by carbohydrates in the diet as these
turn to glucoase and cause glycation - sticky strands that stiffen the
cell walls.
Further if the individual is short of B6 they will also lack the delta-6
desaturase and not be able to make the active form of linolenic acid
namely gamma-linolenic acid.
including inflammation and blood clotting;
The omega-3's make not just prostaglandin but also prostacyclin (both
anti-inflammatory) and thromboxane (inflammatory) eicosanoids. Each
omega-3 is not created equal in that the inflammatory eicosanoids like
thromboxanes of some are stronger than for others and thus not overcome
by the anti-inflamamtory eicosanoids - so the NET effect is
inflamamtory. Thus for example EPA and DHA (found in fish oil/fat) *do*
have stronger anti-inflamamtory eicosanoids for a NET anti-inflammatory
effect (with a vasodilatory effect for example as part of that) - so
they are good for cell walls, blood pressure, kidney function etc. But
this is NOT so for linolenic acid (as found in plant sources such as
flax) where the inflammatory eicosanoids are stronger, and these are bad
for the cell walls, blood pressure, kidneys, etc.
So it's not enough to "get omega-3s" - one has to get enough of the
right omega-3s and much less of inflammatory omega-3 and of omega-6 - so
as to have a diet that is net anti-inflamamtory.
EV olive oil is very anti-inflamamtory too, and helps to get a net
anti-inflammatory diet.
Cholesterol metabolism is affected even more by the ratio of
carbohydrate in the diet than by the fatty acids, as this determines the
quantity of fat stored in the omentum (the dangerous fat).
acid, and ricinoleic acid can be directly produced only from a vegetable
source: >
I'm not suggesting there be no vegetables in the food:-)
Only that there not be ONLY vegetables in the food:-)
for alpha-linoleic acid]
that's alpha-linolenic acid which is the omega-3.
Linoleic is omega-6 and we tend to get too much.
of the excellent sources of the essential fatty acid linoleic acid >
And therein lies the problem. It is way "too" excellent with omega-6
linoleic acid and causes imbalance with omega-3 - thus a net
inflammatory effect.
...which makes it a much more suitable food, as it has a high
anti-inflamamtory effect as well, both fromt eh oleic acid (omega-9) and
from the strong anti-oxidants it contains - plus a list a few pages long
of other benefits.
omega 9 [monosaturated, non essential fatty acid
It depends on your definition of essential. Yours is unusual in thagt
you count only the fatty acids not made by the human body. Modern
terminology considers the ones essential to health to be essential. From
the second definition, omega-9 is essential, especuially if you
consioder the health of cell walls to be relevant - adn we both seem to
do that.
the diet.
A very small part to be limited so as not to overdo omega-6. Instead of
concentrating in trying to get the omega-6 that we usually hacve fat too
much of - I would be looking for where your client is getting EPA and
DHA (as the body can not make enough from linolenic acid) and gamma
linolenic acid, and oleic acid. Those are the ones that help with
inflammation and her symptoms *indicate* an inflammatory state.
I woudl nto be advising omega-6 inflammatory sunflower oil nor
inflammatory flax here either.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
I have below as I am busy in clinic>
I see what you wrote but you did not address the concerns I mentioned,
namely that there be appropriate *ratios* of omega-6 to omega-3 and that
a vegetarian diet is usually NOT appropriate to do this nor to do a host
of other things necessary to proper health, with balanced nutrients.
We tend to get far too many omega-6 fatty acids and to have a huge
deficit of the omega-3s that are anti-inflammatory (EPA and DHA only -
as the eicosanoids from alpha linolenic acid have a net inflammatory
effect).
fatty acids (PUFAs) that cannot be made in the body - linoleic acid and
alpha-linolenic acid. They must be provided by diet. In the body both
can be converted to other PUFAs such as arachidonic acid, or
eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
Except that this is not really true. The human body can convert VERY
limited amounts of EPA and DHA from linolenic acid, there is a mechanism
to prevent more conversion, and it is thus appropriate to get it from
fiah or a fish oil supplement. Vegetarians often don't do that - and
there is NO plant source of these two ANTI-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids.
The more inflammatory fatty acids eaten, the more anti-inflammatory
ones must ALSO be eaten to obtain a net non-inflammatory cell state.
With imbalance, the entire body is in an inflammatory state at the cell
level, and that's why I advocated against sunflower oil.
The cell memebranes are indeed the key to health here from fatty acids -
but the membrane permeability (so as to exclude toxins and include
nutrients) is dependent on its flexibility - and that in turn is helped
by anti-inflammatory eicosanoids from EPA and DHA - and is hindered by
any excess of omega-6 or of the inflammatory omega-3, linolenic acid.
It is also adversely affected by carbohydrates in the diet as these
turn to glucoase and cause glycation - sticky strands that stiffen the
cell walls.
Further if the individual is short of B6 they will also lack the delta-6
desaturase and not be able to make the active form of linolenic acid
namely gamma-linolenic acid.
including inflammation and blood clotting;
The omega-3's make not just prostaglandin but also prostacyclin (both
anti-inflammatory) and thromboxane (inflammatory) eicosanoids. Each
omega-3 is not created equal in that the inflammatory eicosanoids like
thromboxanes of some are stronger than for others and thus not overcome
by the anti-inflamamtory eicosanoids - so the NET effect is
inflamamtory. Thus for example EPA and DHA (found in fish oil/fat) *do*
have stronger anti-inflamamtory eicosanoids for a NET anti-inflammatory
effect (with a vasodilatory effect for example as part of that) - so
they are good for cell walls, blood pressure, kidney function etc. But
this is NOT so for linolenic acid (as found in plant sources such as
flax) where the inflammatory eicosanoids are stronger, and these are bad
for the cell walls, blood pressure, kidneys, etc.
So it's not enough to "get omega-3s" - one has to get enough of the
right omega-3s and much less of inflammatory omega-3 and of omega-6 - so
as to have a diet that is net anti-inflamamtory.
EV olive oil is very anti-inflamamtory too, and helps to get a net
anti-inflammatory diet.
Cholesterol metabolism is affected even more by the ratio of
carbohydrate in the diet than by the fatty acids, as this determines the
quantity of fat stored in the omentum (the dangerous fat).
acid, and ricinoleic acid can be directly produced only from a vegetable
source: >
I'm not suggesting there be no vegetables in the food:-)
Only that there not be ONLY vegetables in the food:-)
for alpha-linoleic acid]
that's alpha-linolenic acid which is the omega-3.
Linoleic is omega-6 and we tend to get too much.
of the excellent sources of the essential fatty acid linoleic acid >
And therein lies the problem. It is way "too" excellent with omega-6
linoleic acid and causes imbalance with omega-3 - thus a net
inflammatory effect.
...which makes it a much more suitable food, as it has a high
anti-inflamamtory effect as well, both fromt eh oleic acid (omega-9) and
from the strong anti-oxidants it contains - plus a list a few pages long
of other benefits.
omega 9 [monosaturated, non essential fatty acid
It depends on your definition of essential. Yours is unusual in thagt
you count only the fatty acids not made by the human body. Modern
terminology considers the ones essential to health to be essential. From
the second definition, omega-9 is essential, especuially if you
consioder the health of cell walls to be relevant - adn we both seem to
do that.
the diet.
A very small part to be limited so as not to overdo omega-6. Instead of
concentrating in trying to get the omega-6 that we usually hacve fat too
much of - I would be looking for where your client is getting EPA and
DHA (as the body can not make enough from linolenic acid) and gamma
linolenic acid, and oleic acid. Those are the ones that help with
inflammation and her symptoms *indicate* an inflammatory state.
I woudl nto be advising omega-6 inflammatory sunflower oil nor
inflammatory flax here either.
Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Luise Kunkle
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: Bad menses pain
Hi Rochelle,
Suriya is posting on her own list" beyondhomeopathy@yahoogroups.com".
It could be she is away since for a little while she has not been
posting. But if she has changed her email address you could post
there and she will get to read it.
Regards
Luise
--
One thought to all who, free from doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========
Suriya is posting on her own list" beyondhomeopathy@yahoogroups.com".
It could be she is away since for a little while she has not been
posting. But if she has changed her email address you could post
there and she will get to read it.
Regards
Luise
--
One thought to all who, free from doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========
Re: Bad menses pain
Thanks for that. I do actually belong to that list but opted not to
receive messages.
I wondered if she was away.
Rochelle
receive messages.
I wondered if she was away.
Rochelle
-
eternalhealth
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Bad menses pain
Sorry Irene,i am too busy to go into this further as i said- nowhere did I advocate a vegetarian diet
Beverly
________________________________
Beverly
________________________________
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Bad menses pain
eternalhealth@optusnet.com.au wrote:
did I advocate a vegetarian diet
Nor anyone else here - but it was said the client was likely vegetarian.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
did I advocate a vegetarian diet
Nor anyone else here - but it was said the client was likely vegetarian.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
Sarvadaman Oberoi
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:00 pm
Re: Bad menses pain
Dear Rochelle,
In an earlier post you did mention that she had been on Dianette for 2 years in Feb 2004. Dianette is a contraceptive pill that is used to check acne in girls as young as 14 years old and it ALWAYS recurs on stopping Dianette – reconcile with your statement below that “not been on the pill and not used contraception for the last 10 years as she would like to have a child.”
Also the use of Dianette and Roaccutane (used in Feb 2004) has certain known side effects besides non specific side effects on general health – long term use of these has not been tested at all by the manufacturers. It is NOT recommended for long term use (beyond 2 to 3 weeks).
The specific side effects tested or / and experienced as known to me are:
1. Hypothyroidism.
2. Craving for foods etc.
3. Mental depression.
4. Blood clotting.
5. Reduced immunity.
Judging from the above, it is quite possible that iatrogenic immune deficiency and hormonal imbalance exist here. In which case homeopathic intervention would not be as robust as natural intervention ( vitamins et al) unless some sarcodes are taken to rectify iatrogenic immune deficiency and hormonal imbalance eg Thyroidinum 6C, ACTH 6C & c.
Regards.
Sarvadaman Oberoi
H 485 FF Ansals Palam Vihar
Gurgaon 122017 Haryana INDIA
Mobile: +919818768349 Tele: +911244076374
Website: http://www.freewebs.com/homeopathy249/index.htm
email: manioberoi@gmail.com
________________________________
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rochelle
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:27 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Fw: [Minutus] Bad menses pain
Dear Beverly,
This patient has not been on the pill and not used contraception for the last 10 years as she would like to have a child. As I said I believe this patient does watch what she eats and may even take supplements. I will ask her.
Irene - I will check about the Magnesium. I don't know where I got that information about B6 and menstruation - just one of those things I must have been told and have regurgitated!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
In an earlier post you did mention that she had been on Dianette for 2 years in Feb 2004. Dianette is a contraceptive pill that is used to check acne in girls as young as 14 years old and it ALWAYS recurs on stopping Dianette – reconcile with your statement below that “not been on the pill and not used contraception for the last 10 years as she would like to have a child.”
Also the use of Dianette and Roaccutane (used in Feb 2004) has certain known side effects besides non specific side effects on general health – long term use of these has not been tested at all by the manufacturers. It is NOT recommended for long term use (beyond 2 to 3 weeks).
The specific side effects tested or / and experienced as known to me are:
1. Hypothyroidism.
2. Craving for foods etc.
3. Mental depression.
4. Blood clotting.
5. Reduced immunity.
Judging from the above, it is quite possible that iatrogenic immune deficiency and hormonal imbalance exist here. In which case homeopathic intervention would not be as robust as natural intervention ( vitamins et al) unless some sarcodes are taken to rectify iatrogenic immune deficiency and hormonal imbalance eg Thyroidinum 6C, ACTH 6C & c.
Regards.
Sarvadaman Oberoi
H 485 FF Ansals Palam Vihar
Gurgaon 122017 Haryana INDIA
Mobile: +919818768349 Tele: +911244076374
Website: http://www.freewebs.com/homeopathy249/index.htm
email: manioberoi@gmail.com
________________________________
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rochelle
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:27 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Fw: [Minutus] Bad menses pain
Dear Beverly,
This patient has not been on the pill and not used contraception for the last 10 years as she would like to have a child. As I said I believe this patient does watch what she eats and may even take supplements. I will ask her.
Irene - I will check about the Magnesium. I don't know where I got that information about B6 and menstruation - just one of those things I must have been told and have regurgitated!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
Re: Bad menses pain
Dear Sarvadaman Oberoi
Correct - she has been on Dianette!!! It slipped my memory re the pill
This is one of the reasons I have her on Folliculinum which did work to help her menses when she previously came to see me.
I have never used a sarcode with patients who have been on Roaccutane and I have never found so far that it interfered with homeopathic treatment. However I accept that this could be the case. What is your experience of using a sarcode in these situations and how do you choose which one. Have you ever used Roaccutane in potency. (I am thinking here for another new patient of mine who has had mental depression from it.)
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
Correct - she has been on Dianette!!! It slipped my memory re the pill
This is one of the reasons I have her on Folliculinum which did work to help her menses when she previously came to see me.I have never used a sarcode with patients who have been on Roaccutane and I have never found so far that it interfered with homeopathic treatment. However I accept that this could be the case. What is your experience of using a sarcode in these situations and how do you choose which one. Have you ever used Roaccutane in potency. (I am thinking here for another new patient of mine who has had mental depression from it.)
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk