do you tell the patient?

Manjitpal Kahlon · Post by **Manjitpal Kahlon** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:12 am

Well .. that is what i stick to. My experience is that these days a number of patients coming have read one or the other thing about Homeopathic medicines.. and most of them have been trying self treatment at one or the other times.. and sure i explained to them that the names of the medicines or names of the disease is less important for them .. because i have to use remedies not for Disease itself.. but for person and then diseased conditions (stages) of the so called disease.. well .. when the patient is cured.. they have all the freedom to come and get names and conditions for which such remedies were used..
My experience says.. it is for the better results.. for the Good of the Patient as well as the doctor. So i stick to this strongly, because i do not wish any one my patients to try something at their own, during the treatment, whatever may be the reason..
________________________________

krystina hindley · Post by **krystina hindley** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:15 am

Yes, I always tell them. I have only had one client 'disagree' with my choice of remedy because they went and looked it up and they didn't think it fit. Maybe he was right and I was wrong.
I would rather include them in the whole process.
Though I can see how it might get trickey treating homeopaths and homeopathy students; )!

Krystina

Luise Kunkle · Post by **Luise Kunkle** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:33 pm

Well,I can only echo what Dr. R. and Irene said - anyone who chooses
not to tell the patient (esp. if the patient asks) should find out
about the laws concerning the rights of the patients to know what they
take. In some countries, if the patient later complais, the doctor,
hospital, homeopath ... may be in trouble.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Kathleen Ramsey · Post by **Kathleen Ramsey** » Thu May 24, 2007 5:00 pm

That is totally different then in Naturopathy. The laws are so that I can “teach” and not prescribe so I have many handouts and information that goes along with the remedy, so they understand what they are taking and why. I can’t image giving something to someone and them not knowing what it is.
Even my husband who has been read many lessons and text books still worries when I give him something he knows would in another sense be poisonous. If you explain it thoroughly to the client and they trust you are competent there are usually no problems with the choice. I personally would not trust anyone that would not tell me what I was given, nor would I take it. Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manjitpal Kahlon
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:24 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] do you tell the patient?
Well .. that is what i stick to. My experience is that these days a number of patients coming have read one or the other thing about Homeopathic medicines.. and most of them have been trying self treatment at one or the other times.. and sure i explained to them that the names of the medicines or names of the disease is less important for them .. because i have to use remedies not for Disease itself.. but for person and then diseased conditions (stages) of the so called disease.. well .. when the patient is cured.. they have all the freedom to come and get names and conditions for which such remedies were used..
My experience says.. it is for the better results.. for the Good of the Patient as well as the doctor. So i stick to this strongly, because i do not wish any one my patients to try something at their own, during the treatment, whatever may be the reason..
Wasn't it, in Dr. Hahnemann's words, "the name of the disease is of no interest to me and the name of the remedy of none to you"? Have heard that he said that, at least.
I am very glad, as a layperson very interested in H, not to know what chronic remedy I am getting until well after the fact. Teresa (Northern VA)
________________________________

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of gretta orazen
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:54 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] do you tell the patient?
I"m wondering...do you always tell the patient what
remedy you are giving? Under what circumstances, and
for how long might you withhold this information from
the patient? I'm curious to know how different people
handle this. THanks in advance.
Gretta

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Richard Shannon · Post by **Richard Shannon** » Thu May 24, 2007 5:18 pm

I think that it is wonderful that you tell them the
rx. If that is the way you practice where you do,
wonderful. I do not, and it is not illegal here by any
stretch. No patient in 5 yrs. has not taken the rx.
because I would not tell them. What do you say to them
when it is a placebo? What do you tell a hypochodriac?
I also do not need to "rely" on the "energy" of the
patients involvement to effect cure. If you have the
time to explain which rx. and why, that is wonderful,
some do not. As for explaining Homeopathy and what it
is, I do this at least twice a week. I have a highly
suggested reading list that clients read before they
are even clients. I send out w/the questionaire, a
long explanation of what Homeopathy is and what it may
do for them. By the time I see clients they know a lot
more about Homeopathy . I "hide" nothing but the rx.
until after we have moved to something else. Do you
think Hahnemann told his patients they were ingesting
placebo. Do you think that if they "knew" it was the
sputum from an infected TB patient that it would work
"better" because now they are "involved" w/the energy
of that rx? Homeopathy does not require ones
personal/energetic beliefs to work. That is a new age
pheneomenon that IMO is what is turning Homeopathy
into a side of the road carnival attraction.

Best regards, Rik
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Kathleen Ramsey · Post by **Kathleen Ramsey** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:35 pm

Homeopathy must be very different then Naturopathy with how the clients are treated. It would be against the law for me as a Naturopath do withhold that information. I have never given a placebo, so I cannot comment on that. Times were very different back when Hahnemann was prescribing, there was no internet and all this readily available information. IMO it would be better to get the facts from me then have them get frightened from reading something off the internet.
Do you not label your bottles? What if they had an aggravation and needed to call a homeopath and you were not available or something happened to you? How could they tell them what course of action they were taking?
Would you go to a professional and take an RX with no explanation? You have much more experience then I at Homeopathy and have been very fortunate to be so successful with your clients for 5 years but I still cannot imagine not knowing what I am putting into my body.
Maybe the US has different Laws for Homeopathy then Naturopathy. Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Shannon
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:18 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Re: do you tell the patient?
I think that it is wonderful that you tell them the
rx. If that is the way you practice where you do,
wonderful. I do not, and it is not illegal here by any
stretch. No patient in 5 yrs. has not taken the rx.
because I would not tell them. What do you say to them
when it is a placebo? What do you tell a hypochodriac?
I also do not need to "rely" on the "energy" of the
patients involvement to effect cure. If you have the
time to explain which rx. and why, that is wonderful,
some do not. As for explaining Homeopathy and what it
is, I do this at least twice a week. I have a highly
suggested reading list that clients read before they
are even clients. I send out w/the questionaire, a
long explanation of what Homeopathy is and what it may
do for them. By the time I see clients they know a lot
more about Homeopathy . I "hide" nothing but the rx.
until after we have moved to something else. Do you
think Hahnemann told his patients they were ingesting
placebo. Do you think that if they "knew" it was the
sputum from an infected TB patient that it would work
"better" because now they are "involved" w/the energy
of that rx? Homeopathy does not require ones
personal/energetic beliefs to work. That is a new age
pheneomenon that IMO is what is turning Homeopathy
into a side of the road carnival attraction.

Best regards, Rik

__________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/

Irene de Villiers · Post by **Irene de Villiers** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:43 pm

krystina hindley wrote:

Just tell them the rubrics you used

)
And remind them that you are objective not subjective:-)

Namaste,
Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Kathleen Ramsey · Post by **Kathleen Ramsey** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:13 pm

I think that is one of the things that is wrong with society and allopathic medicine, people do not question what they are taking and end up in worse shape then they started. I started out in Medical School I do know about allopathic pharmacopeia, that is my point. Energy or not I want to know where it originated J
So then I guess some of you are saying it would depend on the client and their need or willingness to know. If the client does not want to know or care, that is really not withholding anything? I was taught right off the bat many years ago to make sure and label everything with name and date. Are you not labeling your bottles, tubes, tins?
I am truly amazed at this conversation, very eye opening in my perspective, I would have thought disclosure was a no brainer. There obviously is two scenarios 1. Where a client asks and is not told and 2. Where the clients really does not ask or cares. I thought we were discussing the first.
Kathy

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of yerewan
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:12 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: do you tell the patient?

Irene de Villiers · Post by **Irene de Villiers** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:34 pm

Richard Shannon wrote:

How do you know that?

I saw a "homeopath" here locally who gave me something without telling
me the contents even though I asked.
I said thank you, took it home, and flushed it.
She does not know I did not take it.

I think any patient who will take an unknown substance needs their head
read!
Whether allopathic or homeopathic!
I would support it being illegal.
I don't use placebos.
Hypochondria is treatable.
Nobody does that. You misread what I wrote. The energy is a nice little
unspoken demo to show the remedy has to do with energy rather than
chemistry - an educational aspect - not a healing aspect:-)
Now that's a cop-out!
I think we owe it to our clients, and it is standard in my work. After
all if you use repertorizing - and I hope you do - you DID write or
record the rubrics somewhere - all you need do is cut and paste them (or
photocopy them) - add your blurb on repertorizing - and hit print.
NOBODY gives the sputum from an infected TB patient.
What a cop-out!
You are giving the energy of something.
There's no sputum of a Tb patient in the remedy you give unless you are
using TB sputum tincture which I doubt!
- SHAME on you for even suggesting that!
No wonder the general public is so full of nonsense about what
homeopathic remedies contain!
Folks like you believe it and propagate it!
Nor does allopathy - but that does not mean that the medicine used needs
to be a secret - what a paternal load of nonsense.
The client has a right to know what they are getting - and WHY.
It's nothing to do with belief systems - and everything to do with
taking responsibility.

I had hoped we were past the dark ages when healers hide the medicine
from patients, treating them as if they are too useless to know what's
good for them and participate in their own health care - and must
kow-tow to a paternalistic system wherein the patient is a nonentity
while the healer struts their ego as superior being.
Gimme a break. Just because you know more about homeopathy than the
client is not an excuse to treat them as a brainless doll.
Such approach can come back to bite you both. The client needs to
take responsibility for what medicines they use. They need to be able to
tell the next homeopath too for example, especially if it turns out the
previous remedy caused serious proving symptoms. Your hogging the name
to yourself is perhaps your way of forcing the client to come back to
YOU with aggravations (Assuming you are there which you can NOT predict)
- but that's not ethical in my book. Clients should have a right to a
choice - and by withholding the remedy name, you withhold their options.
(Other than tossing it and feeling like they wasted their money - which
is not a good option anyway.)

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Paul Booyse · Post by **Paul Booyse** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:40 pm

Hello Irene,

I tell my patients, except when they are homoeopaths, students of hom, or
patients with boerickes. I have proved time and again that if I do tell
them they either focus on what the remedy should be doing rather that what
actually happens, or they debate the choice of remedy. They often look for
aggravations. I always tell them the remedy on follow-up, whether it works
or not. One homeopath insisted she would not swayed by knowing the remedy.
Within 10 seconds of telling her it was Nat. mur, she said "but don't you
think I am Nat carb.?"

Regards,
Paul
Big mistake IMO.
Since you did not give them any arsenic!
Why are you hiding the REAL medicine from your clients?
Even the owners of the dogs and cats I treat are made aware tghat it is
the succussion and energy that heals and not the original substance that
is not there.

It is a simple matter to explain that for example a 6C is one part per
1,000,000,000,000
which is probably a LOT less arsenic than there is in anybody's tap
water:-)...there's a lot more in THIS city's water.
.....and that the remedy gets rid of symptoms associated with arsenic
poisoning or any similar symptoms - and the patient HAS similar ones.

Why are homeopaths not ALL educating clients right left and center on
what homeopathy really is? It should be old hat to explain this to every
client IMO.

We NEED the general public to know this - so as to support it.
I am at a loss to understand why anyone would hide this valuable
approach to empowering the client.
It DOES empower the client - they take part in the healing, they take
responsibility better - they do better by understanding that this is not
some secret magic stuff but a real health system that they CAN
understand and work with in a good way.

My clients get to make up an aqueous remedy from a single little globule
themselves - so that THEY understand that the energy of those 100
succussions I tell them to do - is REAL energy - and is what's needed to
do the work - so long as they succussed the right thing.
They FEEL that energy they put into the remedy.

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
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