Thanks. Sulphur and Apis well matched in Peritonitis 'type' sx but are you suggesting something more syphilitic. I was also thinking in terms of iridium or maybe the chinas. Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/provings
FIP Kitty
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
Joy Lucas wrote:
Unfortunately the name of the illness is a misnomer left from before
they understood what was going on. (It's not infectious either. Each cat
has to mutate their own FIP virus internally.)
I've seen cases using chinas.
But it varies also according to what organs are being hit first. It's
essential to repertorize. One has little time - and a correct remedy
first time is rather essential.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Unfortunately the name of the illness is a misnomer left from before
they understood what was going on. (It's not infectious either. Each cat
has to mutate their own FIP virus internally.)
I've seen cases using chinas.
But it varies also according to what organs are being hit first. It's
essential to repertorize. One has little time - and a correct remedy
first time is rather essential.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Re: FIP Kitty
But of course we repertorise, that is why I asked the original poster for more sx and clarification but it seemed to me you were rejecting rx before that has even happened. But never mind we can still learn. Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/provings
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/provings
-
Negri, Julie A. *HS
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:00 pm
-
gypsylady502
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
Good Morning Everyone
I am sorry I havent posted sooner - but I have been rather
preoccupied with Fred and work. To give you a better insight to him
and his story I thought I would give you a little more information to
work with.
To give you the specifics about Fred - here we go....
Fred was a stray that wandered into my feral colony late last
summer. He was un-neutered but very very friendly. I assumed that
he was a "throw away" but my vet seems to feel that he was just a
friendly stray. He became very good fur friends with the colony and
quickly learned to ask for pets and rubs and food. He would sit on my
garbage pail outside my kitchen window in the morning and "ask" for
food. In December I found Fred with a front paw swollen three times
its normal size - I knew it wasnt broken but needed to be checked.
He was so good about letting me touch his paw and go to the vet. I
took Fred to my conventional vet to have his paw checked and have him
neutered at the same time. It turned out that he had been badly
beaten by another cat and it was a bad abscess on his paw that had to
cleaned and packed. They also found another cats claw embedded into
his back from the fight that had to be removed. So he was repaired,
fixed and came to stay inside my porch from the end of December.
Fred has his own cage - bed - litter box and is the King of my
porch. He never again had a desire to go back outside. He was fine
until about a week and a half ago when I noticed his appetite was
less than normal but I thought that being in a cage and no activity
was the reason for the reduced appetite. Then I saw the
sign.......his belly was filling with fluid. I have been down this
road before - my heart was torn out by this - I have never felt so
helpless in my life. I had flashes of my other incident with FIP
when I was driving Fred to the vet to be checked. The vet drew blood
for testing and fluid from the belly. The fluid is yellow, stickey
and thick. The blood tests he did were just titers. He told me he
was ordering a full serology workup but all I got was titer results.
My vet has been wonderful and I do believe that he felt it was FIP
and there was no need to test further. It is my experience that vets
immediately see yellow and high titers and write the "stray" off as
dead. I could hear it in his voice when he called me with the
results - he was so sad too because Fred is a really cool cat. He
said I did not have to euthanize him now - that I would know when the
time was right - he said that when I see him breathe through his
mouth that he was in respiratory distress and that would be the right
time. For now Fred eats (he prefers sheba commercial brand) and uses
his litter box - he wants to come out and play with me whenever I am
near his cage. He purrs and "asks" to be rubbed. He does have fluid
but I dont see it getting any more than he had. He climbs from 4
feet up to the ground when he gets out of his cage! He purrs and
meows to me as if to say "don't worry" - I pray with him and for him
and I send him positive energy. I have learned that as long as there
is life - there is hope. I am not sure that the diagnosis is correct
this time. Fred doesnt fit the profile and he doesnt appear "sick"
except for the belly and anemia. I know the tests dont lie - but
they are also not conclusive. The tests that were run were FeLV (
Elisa - which is positive ) and FCV (IFA) the results are below and
FIV (Negative) - perhaps you can help me with them. NOWHERE was
there blood work or effusion analysis done - but like I said - my vet
may have tried to spare me the expense knowing that I care for many
many animals (I have 6 dogs and 28 indoor cats + 2 feral colonies) I
pray that this is a misdiagnosis and something that can be treated -
if not - then perhaps I can help me make Fred more comfortable while
he is still with me.
The FCV (IFA) read:
1:400 Positive
1:1600 Positive
"A positive FCV titer indicates exposure to a coronavirus. It does
not differentiate between FIP, feline enteric coronavirus exposure or
vaccination. Diagnosis of FIP should be based on history, physical
examination and other laboratory findings including electrophoresis
on effusions. FIP PCR testing on effusions, and/or FIP 7b ELISA
testing on serum may be helpful in confirming FIP infection."
Can you interpret this? It appears to me that it may or may not be
FIP. Fred seems to get easily depressed being in the cage - but I
have no choice. He eats small amounts throughout the day. I have
given him a B6 supplement to help with his anemia. Fortuntely he was
never exposed to my indoor cats - ironically I was waiting to have
him tested first. Is there anything I am missing? Anything I can
do? I would like to alleviate some of the fluid in the belly if I
can. I would like to get him help if possible. Thanks for being
there and offering to share your experience.
Mariann &
Fred
I am sorry I havent posted sooner - but I have been rather
preoccupied with Fred and work. To give you a better insight to him
and his story I thought I would give you a little more information to
work with.
To give you the specifics about Fred - here we go....
Fred was a stray that wandered into my feral colony late last
summer. He was un-neutered but very very friendly. I assumed that
he was a "throw away" but my vet seems to feel that he was just a
friendly stray. He became very good fur friends with the colony and
quickly learned to ask for pets and rubs and food. He would sit on my
garbage pail outside my kitchen window in the morning and "ask" for
food. In December I found Fred with a front paw swollen three times
its normal size - I knew it wasnt broken but needed to be checked.
He was so good about letting me touch his paw and go to the vet. I
took Fred to my conventional vet to have his paw checked and have him
neutered at the same time. It turned out that he had been badly
beaten by another cat and it was a bad abscess on his paw that had to
cleaned and packed. They also found another cats claw embedded into
his back from the fight that had to be removed. So he was repaired,
fixed and came to stay inside my porch from the end of December.
Fred has his own cage - bed - litter box and is the King of my
porch. He never again had a desire to go back outside. He was fine
until about a week and a half ago when I noticed his appetite was
less than normal but I thought that being in a cage and no activity
was the reason for the reduced appetite. Then I saw the
sign.......his belly was filling with fluid. I have been down this
road before - my heart was torn out by this - I have never felt so
helpless in my life. I had flashes of my other incident with FIP
when I was driving Fred to the vet to be checked. The vet drew blood
for testing and fluid from the belly. The fluid is yellow, stickey
and thick. The blood tests he did were just titers. He told me he
was ordering a full serology workup but all I got was titer results.
My vet has been wonderful and I do believe that he felt it was FIP
and there was no need to test further. It is my experience that vets
immediately see yellow and high titers and write the "stray" off as
dead. I could hear it in his voice when he called me with the
results - he was so sad too because Fred is a really cool cat. He
said I did not have to euthanize him now - that I would know when the
time was right - he said that when I see him breathe through his
mouth that he was in respiratory distress and that would be the right
time. For now Fred eats (he prefers sheba commercial brand) and uses
his litter box - he wants to come out and play with me whenever I am
near his cage. He purrs and "asks" to be rubbed. He does have fluid
but I dont see it getting any more than he had. He climbs from 4
feet up to the ground when he gets out of his cage! He purrs and
meows to me as if to say "don't worry" - I pray with him and for him
and I send him positive energy. I have learned that as long as there
is life - there is hope. I am not sure that the diagnosis is correct
this time. Fred doesnt fit the profile and he doesnt appear "sick"
except for the belly and anemia. I know the tests dont lie - but
they are also not conclusive. The tests that were run were FeLV (
Elisa - which is positive ) and FCV (IFA) the results are below and
FIV (Negative) - perhaps you can help me with them. NOWHERE was
there blood work or effusion analysis done - but like I said - my vet
may have tried to spare me the expense knowing that I care for many
many animals (I have 6 dogs and 28 indoor cats + 2 feral colonies) I
pray that this is a misdiagnosis and something that can be treated -
if not - then perhaps I can help me make Fred more comfortable while
he is still with me.
The FCV (IFA) read:
1:400 Positive
1:1600 Positive
"A positive FCV titer indicates exposure to a coronavirus. It does
not differentiate between FIP, feline enteric coronavirus exposure or
vaccination. Diagnosis of FIP should be based on history, physical
examination and other laboratory findings including electrophoresis
on effusions. FIP PCR testing on effusions, and/or FIP 7b ELISA
testing on serum may be helpful in confirming FIP infection."
Can you interpret this? It appears to me that it may or may not be
FIP. Fred seems to get easily depressed being in the cage - but I
have no choice. He eats small amounts throughout the day. I have
given him a B6 supplement to help with his anemia. Fortuntely he was
never exposed to my indoor cats - ironically I was waiting to have
him tested first. Is there anything I am missing? Anything I can
do? I would like to alleviate some of the fluid in the belly if I
can. I would like to get him help if possible. Thanks for being
there and offering to share your experience.
Mariann &
Fred
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
Joy Lucas wrote:
Dear Joy,
It was not my intention to be negative towards your interest in this.
I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I welcome any interest in this area.
I often get the feeling that mine is a lone voice in fighting this
illness, and I wish more homeopaths would tackle it. There is a sadly
long list of victims growing ever longer, and I can only see the tip of
the iceberg myself.
My rejection of Sulph and Apis as likely remedies for the effusive
form of FIP is based on experience of over 300 cases. Sulph or Apis used
to be tried by other homeopaths for FIP per write-ups I have seen such
as in veterinary homeopathy tutor texts - before there was understanding
of what is involved.
[So far never with any success with those remedies that I can find. In
fact I have a hard time finding anyone anywhere with success in this
illness. If anyone here knows of it please let me know a contact so we
can swap notes and learn from it.]
My point was that those remedies are not typically representative of
the disease at hand. So while it is valid to repertorize every case and
I consider that essential no matter how much "gut feel" I have for a
remedy in a case - I do not see Sulph or Apis as likely at all, (though
they are most commonly suggested by other homeopaths) in that the root
cause of the problem is part of that repertorizing and I can not imagine
a case where Apis or sulph would cover those causes, and have not seen a
case so far that has those remedies anywhere near the short list for
finding simillimum. So I believe "looking at them" can only be
misleading here.
I CAN foresee a situation in which a cat might be a constitutional type
of Apis or Sulph - in which case it can be appropriate to add in the
remedy as sort of background support - in addition to the use of the
simillimum.
Of course I may be wrong. Perhaps one day I shall find an effusive FIP
case which repertorizes as Sulph or Apis, which then I would use - but I
can not foresee it, and even if it were the next case, it would
represent less than a third of a percentage point of cases.
My intention in rejecting them then, was more to try to steer
thought on this illness towards remedies that match the pathology and
root cause of the illness rather than to remedies that match the name
which is a misnomer, or the fluid effusion without knowing its *cause*
and origin.
It is my belief that I do not hear of other homeopaths with success
in effusive FIP mainly because they are not matching the true pathology
and ARE using the misleading name and visible effusion without regard to
causes. I think this is a common mistake many homeopaths make - to fail
to properly understand the pathology of a disease they are seeing, and
to use only superficially visible information.
I saw this list discussion as an opportunity to change that thinking
towards *more* successes in this awful illness. I try to do that any
place I can, as I would love to see an impact on the disease survival
rate more widely than just in my practise.
So that was my motivation in writing as I did. I hoped to provide useful
insight into repping for this illness.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Dear Joy,
It was not my intention to be negative towards your interest in this.
I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I welcome any interest in this area.
I often get the feeling that mine is a lone voice in fighting this
illness, and I wish more homeopaths would tackle it. There is a sadly
long list of victims growing ever longer, and I can only see the tip of
the iceberg myself.
My rejection of Sulph and Apis as likely remedies for the effusive
form of FIP is based on experience of over 300 cases. Sulph or Apis used
to be tried by other homeopaths for FIP per write-ups I have seen such
as in veterinary homeopathy tutor texts - before there was understanding
of what is involved.
[So far never with any success with those remedies that I can find. In
fact I have a hard time finding anyone anywhere with success in this
illness. If anyone here knows of it please let me know a contact so we
can swap notes and learn from it.]
My point was that those remedies are not typically representative of
the disease at hand. So while it is valid to repertorize every case and
I consider that essential no matter how much "gut feel" I have for a
remedy in a case - I do not see Sulph or Apis as likely at all, (though
they are most commonly suggested by other homeopaths) in that the root
cause of the problem is part of that repertorizing and I can not imagine
a case where Apis or sulph would cover those causes, and have not seen a
case so far that has those remedies anywhere near the short list for
finding simillimum. So I believe "looking at them" can only be
misleading here.
I CAN foresee a situation in which a cat might be a constitutional type
of Apis or Sulph - in which case it can be appropriate to add in the
remedy as sort of background support - in addition to the use of the
simillimum.
Of course I may be wrong. Perhaps one day I shall find an effusive FIP
case which repertorizes as Sulph or Apis, which then I would use - but I
can not foresee it, and even if it were the next case, it would
represent less than a third of a percentage point of cases.
My intention in rejecting them then, was more to try to steer
thought on this illness towards remedies that match the pathology and
root cause of the illness rather than to remedies that match the name
which is a misnomer, or the fluid effusion without knowing its *cause*
and origin.
It is my belief that I do not hear of other homeopaths with success
in effusive FIP mainly because they are not matching the true pathology
and ARE using the misleading name and visible effusion without regard to
causes. I think this is a common mistake many homeopaths make - to fail
to properly understand the pathology of a disease they are seeing, and
to use only superficially visible information.
I saw this list discussion as an opportunity to change that thinking
towards *more* successes in this awful illness. I try to do that any
place I can, as I would love to see an impact on the disease survival
rate more widely than just in my practise.
So that was my motivation in writing as I did. I hoped to provide useful
insight into repping for this illness.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
gypsylady502
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
Irene
Can you help me help Fred?
My knowledge of homeopathy is limited to being a patient. So I would
require a lot of help. Thanks
Mariann
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
poster
rejecting rx
Joy
this.
area.
sadly
tip of
effusive
used
such
understanding
In
this
we
representative of
case and
a
(though
root
imagine
seen a
for
type
the
the
FIP
but I
and
name
*cause*
success
pathology
regard to
fail
and
thinking
any
survival
useful
Homeopath.)
Can you help me help Fred?
My knowledge of homeopathy is limited to being a patient. So I would
require a lot of help. Thanks
Mariann
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
poster
rejecting rx
Joy
this.
area.
sadly
tip of
effusive
used
such
understanding
In
this
we
representative of
case and
a
(though
root
imagine
seen a
for
type
the
the
FIP
but I
and
name
*cause*
success
pathology
regard to
fail
and
thinking
any
survival
useful
Homeopath.)
-
Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
gypsylady502 wrote:
MAriann,
I sure hope so.
I'll send you consult details off list okay?
(This does need a consult, it's quite intensive).
NAmaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
MAriann,
I sure hope so.
I'll send you consult details off list okay?
(This does need a consult, it's quite intensive).
NAmaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
-
gypsylady502
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
Thank you - I will hurry and complete it - Fred needs you
Thanks
Mariann
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
would
Homeopath.)
Thanks
Mariann
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
would
Homeopath.)
-
muthu kumar
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: FIP Kitty
Irene - it was very interesting to read the posts though I have never
kept cats and know nothing of FIP till now...
But from what I saw here and from a casual browsing of the web a few
questions and thoughts-
1) You posted that your success rate is close to 50% which seems to be
excellent. I saw that once symptoms have appeared 95% is fatal. In
general is your approach individualistic or is there any nosode or
something that you use for all cases?
Since steroids and antibiotics seem to hasten the disease have they
been effective in potencies?
I noticed that the FIP Vaccine also has a hastening ( controbversial?)
effect in an already infected case would that be helpful in potencies?
2)If this were a human case I would definitely consider medicines that
would be needed for tuberculosis- Tuberculinum, Nat.sulph ( abd. TB
as per knerr), Hepar, Iod. Have you found any of these effective? Has
Tuberculinum as a nosode been effective? Ars. iod is another medicine
that might be considered in a dropsy in a tubercular background. Has
that been tried and of any use.
3)I have come across Aur.met, Aur.mur, Aur.nat frequently for Ascites,
abd tumors - have you used them before?
4) Is there a nosode with Coronavirus and has that been tried? Also
with any thing else that causes a "similar" clinical picture for
example - cryptococcosis? I do not know if there is a nosode out of that-
5) Another remedy that is freq. mentioned is Anthracinum ( and also
related to Ars). Is that of any use?
In a brief pathological repertorization I could see Graph, Carbo.v,
Helleborus, Mercur.dulcis, Phos recurring. Any experience with them in
this?
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:
as FIP
selection
good
you
advise
am in
kept cats and know nothing of FIP till now...
But from what I saw here and from a casual browsing of the web a few
questions and thoughts-
1) You posted that your success rate is close to 50% which seems to be
excellent. I saw that once symptoms have appeared 95% is fatal. In
general is your approach individualistic or is there any nosode or
something that you use for all cases?
Since steroids and antibiotics seem to hasten the disease have they
been effective in potencies?
I noticed that the FIP Vaccine also has a hastening ( controbversial?)
effect in an already infected case would that be helpful in potencies?
2)If this were a human case I would definitely consider medicines that
would be needed for tuberculosis- Tuberculinum, Nat.sulph ( abd. TB
as per knerr), Hepar, Iod. Have you found any of these effective? Has
Tuberculinum as a nosode been effective? Ars. iod is another medicine
that might be considered in a dropsy in a tubercular background. Has
that been tried and of any use.
3)I have come across Aur.met, Aur.mur, Aur.nat frequently for Ascites,
abd tumors - have you used them before?
4) Is there a nosode with Coronavirus and has that been tried? Also
with any thing else that causes a "similar" clinical picture for
example - cryptococcosis? I do not know if there is a nosode out of that-
5) Another remedy that is freq. mentioned is Anthracinum ( and also
related to Ars). Is that of any use?
In a brief pathological repertorization I could see Graph, Carbo.v,
Helleborus, Mercur.dulcis, Phos recurring. Any experience with them in
this?
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:
as FIP
selection
good
you
advise
am in